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[G] Be the Leaf! A Passive opening for PvT

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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AGIANTSMURF
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1232 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-20 14:18:14
April 28 2013 21:49 GMT
#1
10/20/14 Have been given ability to edit, Updates Coming Soon!

[G] BE THE LEAF! A passive opening for PvT

[image loading]


The philosophy behind this build and my style of PvT:

The goal is to weave your way through the gates and make it to the other side without touching them. "The key is to be like the leaf flow with the movements of the gates. Air bending is all about spiral movements, When you meet resistance you must be able to switch direction at a moments notice."
-Tenzin

When related to my PvT, I try to flow with the movements of my opponent. I play very passively and reactively, And when my opponent offers up a form of hard resistance I am ready to transition and react at a moments notice. With constant scouting and good macro management you should be able to flow with your opponents aggression awaiting the perfect time to strike back and end the game in one swift protoss a-moving deathball :D


About me

+ Show Spoiler +
Hello, I am AGIANTSMURF, frequent poster on Teamliquid and /r/starcraft. I am a North American Grandmaster protoss currently playing for the Complexity Academy. I have been a Grandmaster player for the past 4 seasons of ladder. Assuming I am playing actively and have avoided laddering when emotionally compromised (DAMN ZERGS!) I hover within the top 100 ranks of GM. For the past year or so, PvT has been my strongest Matchup. This is the first real guide I've written and cover's a build I have been working on and refining for over a year. At the time I began this guide I had a 62% win rate in PvT. Admittedly, since then it has gone down a little, but this is mostly due to mid game late game issues I face defending things like doom drops and hellbat drops etc..

[image loading]



About this opening

+ Show Spoiler +
This is a guide for an OPENING BUILD ORDER. It does not cover mid game transitions, how to deal with mid-late game drops when to make Templar etc...

I have a very passive playstyle, I prefer to put myself in a position where I can scout and react, flowing gently like a leaf in the wind. Obviously, this build is very passive. You will not be scouting with your mothership core, you will not be doing 3 gate sentry pressure, you wont even be securing your own watchtower until the mid game. The purpose of this guide is to put you in an economical position and leave you in a stance where you have many options going into the mid game. This build offers the opportunity to stay even or ahead economically with just about any terran opener (except maybe CC first, you should probably go gateway - nexus - cybercore if they do that) while also granting you early game scouting through hallucination, and the basic infrastructure needed going into the mid game (sentries, a forge and a robotics)


The Build!

Quick note on chronoboost usage

+ Show Spoiler +
You generally want to spend all of your chrono boost on probes all throughout the opening phase of the game. You will only be using 2 chrono boost elsewhere. 1 will go on your mothership core as it is in production, the other will go on your 1st sentry. The reason we chrono boost these units is because we want them to begin gathering energy ASAP. Chrono boost will effectively remove 10 seconds from their buildtime which as a result boost ahead the timing of their abilities by 10 seconds (I.E. your hallucination scout will be 10 seconds earlier if you chrono boost your sentry right as it begins). To make this easy to keep track off, here is a tip to make sure you are spending correctly. Prior to building your nexus on 20 supply, spend ALL your chrono boost on the nexus. Once you hit 20 and begin saving for your nexus you will gather enough energy for another chrono boost. The next 2 chrono boost following the construction of your nexus will go on the mothership core and then the sentry.

This is important. There have been many games where I did not chrono boost one or the other and it cost me the game under very special circumstances.

  • 9 Pylon
  • 13 Gateway
  • 14 Gas *Important to get this one time if you want your mothership core out on time. Anything later will result in delayed MSC
  • 15/16 Pylon (second)
  • 17/18 Cybercore

*Note* I advise putting one of your first 2 pylons ( i use my second) behind your mineral line but on the side where drops are likely to come. This will allow you to add an early cannon if widow mine drops become a concern.
[image loading]
  • 17/18 Core (depends on probe stacking prowess, try not to cut probes)
  • 18/19 Start a zealot, if you think/see him engineering bay block you, let it finish and use it to kill it. then drop your nexus and proceed as normal, you will probably need a faster 4th pylon.
  • 20 Nexus!

After your nexus you a mothership core BEFORE you want to get warpgate upgrade. This is because you want to have it out before a reaper gets to your base, this should let you get away with not pulling more than 1-2 probes to move away from its attack. With your 13 gate probe you should have been able to at the very least poke up his ramp. There’s really only 2 things you want to look for.

1. He’s opening standard. 2 depot’s at the ramp, 1 rax forming a wall.

2. he’s not opening standard, there are 3 things he could have done from here, Gas First, 2 rax with 1 of them hidden somewhere (his natural most likely) or a proxy rax cheese build I.E. proxy reaper, proxy marauder or even 11 - 11 rax.

In the case of option 2, if its an 11 - 11 rax (you can identify this well before core is done) you should be chrono-boosting out a zealot followed with a stalker and getting a mothership core. pull probes to deny bunkers etc... this isn’t a “How to stop cheese guide” so thats about as in depth I’m going to go.

If he’s playing standard however we can proceed with the build, whether or not he opens gas is not really a factor (unless its gas first, which should be a sign to do a different build)


  • 20 Mothership Core ( BEFORE WARPGATE + CHRONO BOOST IT!)
  • 22 Warp Gate
  • 22 gas (second)
  • Pylon (third) close to natural nexus/mineral line
  • 24 Sentry (CHRONO BOOST IT!)


*Note* You should be able to afford the 2nd geyser + pylon while MSC is in production, when it is finished you should be able to afford probes again.
The next 100 gas following your core should be spent on a sentry. This is your first gateway unit. you should be able to get out 2 sentries before warpgate is done.[image loading]

aside from 1 chrono boost on the mothership core, and 1 chrono boost on the sentry, all of your chrono boost should be going onto probes.


  • 28 Sentry
  • 28/30 Forge
  • 28/30 Gateway


**When nexus is complete, transfer exactly 5 probes from your main to your natural. I will explain why later.


  • 34-36 Robotics Facility (when finished chrono 2-3 obs depending on your mid game transition)



**Special Note** When warp gate is finished, this is a very important timing for you, remember when you transferred exactly 5 probes to your natural? well if you check your main (and assuming you haven't cut probes/haven't lost more than 1 for scouting/to a reaper), you’ll be saturated with 16 probes on minerals and 3 on each gas. WarpGate is basically an audio queue to rally your main nexus to your natural, incidentally this is also the timing you want to grab both of your natural gasses!!! :D See how well this all works out!? [image loading]

Warp in 2 sentries immediately after transforming your gateways bringing your army count to 4 sentries + 1 mother ship core. This is a bare minimal army and as you can see its very mineral light allowing you to focus on probe production and infrastructure.[image loading]

Knowing when to build a cannon!

This is something that I determine from my initial 13 scout as well as paying attention to the terran's actions afterward. Let me explain:
  • If I scout the terran has opened gas, but has NOT scouted me with a reaper, I build a cannon in my main mineral line.
  • If I scout the terran has NOT opened gas, I do not build a cannon in my mineral line
  • If I scout the terran has opened gas but then scouts me with a reaper, I do not build a cannon UNLESS I scout fast factory/starport with my hallucinated phoenix
  • If I am unable to scout the terran due to a wall, I hide my probe nearby and check his natural around 4-4:30. If he has not expanded to his natural, I build a cannon in my mineral line. If he Has expanded, I do not build a cannon in my mineral line prior to scouting.



  • 40-50 supply, depending on what you scout with your hallucination, you may or may not need to immediately add 2-3 additional gateways in order to have enough units to defend pressure. If he is being aggressive with tanks or widow mines, you should go up to 3-4 gates to have enough units to defend. You absolutely want 4-5 gates by the time he is pushing out with medivacs. If he is making marauders, an immortal can be useful, if he is staying marine heavy you are better off with faster tech.




Replay Section:


Vs. 1 base factory - http://drop.sc/328529

Vs. 2 rax with proxied factory - http://drop.sc/328530

Vs. early 2 rax aggression - http://drop.sc/328531

Vs. delayed widow mine drop - http://drop.sc/328532

Vs. widow mine drop - http://drop.sc/328533

Vs. funky play against Last Shadow - http://drop.sc/328888

F.A.Q. Section


He blocked my expansion with an Engineering bay! How do I adapt?
+ Show Spoiler +
You should have had a zealot in production in anticipation for this. If he leaves your base early towards your natural, pull a probe and start zapping away. If he commits to the engineering bay even with your probe hitting it, you want to shift - attack click the scv multiple times to insure that the probe follows it accurately when it moves. Start your mothership core before your nexus. The engineering bay shouldn't finish with too much HP. Let the zealot/probe take it down, continue probe production following the core and drop the nexus as soon as the engineering bay is canceled.


There's a Reaper in my base! What do I do?
+ Show Spoiler +
Keep calm and make probes. Unless they cut stuff and rush out a reaper, your mothership core will spawn just as it arrives at your base. Some probe micro on your part and making sure the mothership core zones it properly will prevent you from losing any probes. It also helps if you position your 2nd pylon + cybercore to wall off sections near your mineral line to limit potential reaper mobility.


Whats this early forge for again?
+ Show Spoiler +
Versatility, the early forge allows you to cannon each mineral line early on in the event of a widow mine drop rush, If this is not a threat it also serves for early upgrades.


Why should I build a cannon when I can just have an observer?
+ Show Spoiler +
Observer's are a good way to deal with mine drops. However with the minimal gateway units we have for the early game you dont really want to split anything unless completely necessary. Also having an observer in your main will not stop the mine from burrowing and detonating killing clumps of probes. It also sucks when you don't have an obs or units 100% ready and you are forced to pull probes for long periods of time.


How do I stop early pushes with just 4 sentries and a mothership core?
+ Show Spoiler +

The mothership core is so early that it will have energy for the Nexus cannon ability in time for just about any terran push that hits AFTER your natural nexus is completed. Slightly delayed pushes will allow the nexus cannon time to gather energy for back to back nexus cannons, that's 2 full minutes of Nexus defense. This combined with well placed forcefields, a cannon + a few other gateway units should be more than enough to deflect any pre-medivac push.


Why should I cut stuff to add more gateways If I'm spending all my money with just 2 + tech?
+ Show Spoiler +
When terran has medivacs and or tanks, they become much much scarier. In these situations the nexus cannon loses its effectiveness. You may be forced to engage outside of its range or you may be forced to split your army into 2 or more groups. In these situations you want closer to 4-5 gateways in order to warp in more effectively and make it easier to be in 2 or more places at once.


Ok I've followed everything in this guide, What do I do next?
+ Show Spoiler +
That's totally up to you, If you're able to make it to 8minutes and havent lost half your probes to widow mines or some other form of early aggression, then congratulations. The awesome part of this build is that you can transition into almost anything.

Personally, my favorite is either blink into colossus, or Dark templar drops off of 2 base just as the terran pushes out. If this guide garners enough interest then I will consider writing follow up guides about more of the stuff I do in the Mid game.

.
Thats "Grand-Master" SMURF to you.....
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
April 28 2013 22:17 GMT
#2
Approximately what time ingame time do you hallucinate scout?
AGIANTSMURF
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1232 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-28 22:30:20
April 28 2013 22:27 GMT
#3
On April 29 2013 07:17 Complete wrote:
Approximately what time ingame time do you hallucinate scout?


i'd say around 6:40 - 6:45. right around the time warpgate finishes.
Thats "Grand-Master" SMURF to you.....
MysteryMeat1
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States3291 Posts
April 28 2013 23:03 GMT
#4
I love u. Pvt has always been my worst mu and this should help a lot.
"Cause ya know, Style before victory." -The greatest mafia player alive
jcroisdale
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1543 Posts
April 28 2013 23:05 GMT
#5
On April 29 2013 07:27 AGIANTSMURF wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 07:17 Complete wrote:
Approximately what time ingame time do you hallucinate scout?


i'd say around 6:40 - 6:45. right around the time warpgate finishes.


It is with the first 100 energy you get on your first sentry correct?
"I think bringing a toddler to a movie theater is a terrible idea. They are too young to understand what is happening it would be like giving your toddler acid. Bad idea." - Sinensis
AGIANTSMURF
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1232 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-28 23:14:20
April 28 2013 23:09 GMT
#6
link to game vs. lastshadow has been fixed

On April 29 2013 08:05 jcroisdale wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 07:27 AGIANTSMURF wrote:
On April 29 2013 07:17 Complete wrote:
Approximately what time ingame time do you hallucinate scout?


i'd say around 6:40 - 6:45. right around the time warpgate finishes.


It is with the first 100 energy you get on your first sentry correct?


yes this is correct. If you are forced to use a forcefield then the 2nd sentry will have energy ~30 seconds later

if you cant scout on that one too you have the robotics finishing up around 6:50 - 7:00 to chronoboost an observer out

if they are being pesky with a reaper, i would advise against using a forcefield unless you are 100% going to kill it.
Thats "Grand-Master" SMURF to you.....
LighTLasH
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany4 Posts
April 28 2013 23:42 GMT
#7
Knowing when to build a cannon!

I played around with 1gate fe into forge some weeks ago. In most games it was possible to scout with the mothershipcore and reactionarily put down cannons. This might be an option if you cannot get into the terran's base with ur probe.

I don't actually remember why i put this opening aside, maybe cause it was too boring ^^
iSTime
Profile Joined November 2006
1579 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-29 00:06:30
April 29 2013 00:06 GMT
#8
My only question is: what percentage of your opponents cry about how you did nothing all game and then you won?

Also this looks like a good opening that fits my style for PvT and I'll be using it.
www.infinityseven.net
Moobla
Profile Joined May 2011
United States186 Posts
April 29 2013 00:39 GMT
#9
I saw a KR GM protoss with 80%~ winrate PvT and he has a similar build order. Nice guide, I learned quite a bit.
"If you aren't attacking, you are probably losing." -QXC
habermas
Profile Joined June 2010
United Kingdom304 Posts
April 29 2013 01:16 GMT
#10
Most pros I've seen do this build with 15/16 double gas with 2 probes, adding to 3 after the first sentry, and getting robo after the first sentry without delaying the second by much. If you do this, your first observer will be ready at the same time your hallu is, so on 4 players maps you can scout in two directions simultaneously. Since you probe scout I guess it's not so important though.

It's a great opening, safe against pretty much everything while being quite greedy at the same time. Good macro benchmark is to have 2 base saturation (44 probes) by 8:00.
AGIANTSMURF
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1232 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-29 01:47:08
April 29 2013 01:37 GMT
#11
On April 29 2013 09:06 iSTime wrote:
My only question is: what percentage of your opponents cry about how you did nothing all game and then you won?

Also this looks like a good opening that fits my style for PvT and I'll be using it.


I have tasted the tears of many terran foes. When people do rage, I get alot of people complaining that they cant pressure me early game despite me having nothing but sentries and a core.

On April 29 2013 10:16 habermas wrote:
Most pros I've seen do this build with 15/16 double gas with 2 probes, adding to 3 after the first sentry, and getting robo after the first sentry without delaying the second by much. If you do this, your first observer will be ready at the same time your hallu is, so on 4 players maps you can scout in two directions simultaneously. Since you probe scout I guess it's not so important though.

It's a great opening, safe against pretty much everything while being quite greedy at the same time. Good macro benchmark is to have 2 base saturation (44 probes) by 8:00.


Close enough. (from last shadow rep) If I hit all my chronoboost and dont supply block, this is an easy benchmark to hit.
[image loading]
Thats "Grand-Master" SMURF to you.....
hox
Profile Joined February 2010
United States59 Posts
April 29 2013 02:28 GMT
#12
Awesome. I hope you write a guide on handling midgame (I keep crumpling to good drops in mid-masters) if it's going to be as well-laid out as this one.
The spice must flow.
ant-1
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada149 Posts
April 29 2013 02:56 GMT
#13
Hey! Nice guide. It will help me expand earlier than I do now (I usually do two gases before expo, which slows it down quite a bit). Just one thing you shold mention: why so many sentries? I was under the impression that you only need one or two because the MsC helps with early aggression.
The Days Run Away Like Wild Horses Over the Hills
AGIANTSMURF
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1232 Posts
April 29 2013 02:59 GMT
#14
On April 29 2013 11:56 ant-1 wrote:
Hey! Nice guide. It will help me expand earlier than I do now (I usually do two gases before expo, which slows it down quite a bit). Just one thing you shold mention: why so many sentries? I was under the impression that you only need one or two because the MsC helps with early aggression.


you start with 2 built from gateways and then another 2 after warpgate is done. This leaves you with 4 sentries. These are generally all the sentries I make throughout the entire game as I begin investing gas heavily into tech right away around the 7:30 - 8minute mark. Any good protoss will try to have atleast 4 sentries going into the mid game for forcefields and guardian shield unless they are doing a tech heavy opening like dt's or blink or stargate
Thats "Grand-Master" SMURF to you.....
Balthazar
Profile Joined February 2011
United States277 Posts
April 29 2013 03:14 GMT
#15
This fits well with my passive/macro playstyle. Thanks, I'm sure this will help me a lot.
megid
Profile Joined November 2011
Brazil142 Posts
April 29 2013 03:45 GMT
#16
Damn, we need some terran builds =(
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
April 29 2013 04:00 GMT
#17
Thank you for the guide, I look forward to checking over the replays. As others have said, it'd be awesome if you explained the mid-game, particularly the third timing while defending drops.
Hotdawg
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-29 04:12:09
April 29 2013 04:11 GMT
#18
Thanks for the guide! I needed a new official HOTS opener and this looks great. However, I must point out that you left out your first gas timing and second pylon timing. I'm assuming its 14 and 15 because that's pretty common (and I see the picture =D) but it might be a good idea to put in the guide.
AGIANTSMURF
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1232 Posts
April 29 2013 04:19 GMT
#19
On April 29 2013 13:11 Hotdawg wrote:
Thanks for the guide! I needed a new official HOTS opener and this looks great. However, I must point out that you left out your first gas timing and second pylon timing. I'm assuming its 14 and 15 because that's pretty common (and I see the picture =D) but it might be a good idea to put in the guide.


Fixed, thank you
Thats "Grand-Master" SMURF to you.....
Chronos.
Profile Joined February 2012
United States805 Posts
April 29 2013 04:56 GMT
#20
I don't play protoss, but this appears like a well written guide and the Avatar reference behind it is very nice =p
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