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On April 26 2013 00:43 dzugaru wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 00:19 arkedos wrote:
I was talking about the gap between platinum and dia. For gold you are right. In gold you know just the openings but not the exact / precise follow ups to your opening, but the guys in high platinum / low dia definitely do know follow ups. That are my expieriences so far form the EU ladder. Well I was talking about low diamond too (I was in WoL for some time and now in season 1 HoTS). I guess its just league shifts and personal impressions. I barely can stand my own play, very hard to not facepalm every 30 secs. You (and anyone) can add me if you want some practice/roflstomps, I welcome custom games. Dzugaru#600 on EU.
I never said that platinum / low dia or diamond players in general dont make A LOT of mistakes (My main problem for example is that I get supply blocked very often and I think I would outmacro some opponents and win more games if I would not get myself supplyblocked), but you have to have some kind of understanding of the game to be in platinum or in diamond. Nothing more was said by me 
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You do not have to play that much to be a decent player. I have never played a ton because of school. I'm mid-Master this season and I have only played about 120 games of HOTS since release (I played like 200 games during beta but that was during a school break and finals last term, in which I only had 2 finals)
35-70 games per season will definitely cut it. I improved from platinum to diamond in WoL playing that many games per season. I only play a lot more HOTS because I actually have time to now (plus it is way more fun). I probably won't next year with school and will go back to doing the same thing. Will I stay in Master? Probably not, but that's ok. School is more important.
The people who have 250+ games per season and are still in Platinum are not people you want to emulate. There is very likely something fundamentally wrong with how they play that is stopping them from improving. If you play that much and are not in at least Diamond or even Master then there is something going very wrong (I justify this by saying that if you are playing that much each season then you should be improving mechanically whether you know it or not. For most people, the more they play, the more they speed up).
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On April 25 2013 12:55 U_G_L_Y wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 12:46 thurst0n wrote:
If you do these 3 things, I guarantee you will get to diamond level MINIMUM.
1) Make workers until you have 60-70 on 3 bases.
2) never get supply blocked
3) never have over 500 minerals.
I can't do these unfortunately, sometimes i get 2/3 but.. it's hard out there man. Stick with it, just have fun. Not as Terran.
yep, truth
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On April 25 2013 13:00 nak0z wrote:
Well, I was bronze a year ago and never had any RTS experience but I've played shitloads of games ( I would say few thousands ) in the next 2 season. First season, bronze to top silver. Next season, top silver to top master in my division ( ranked #600ish) by cheesing every single game.
It is sad and boring so I've decided to play the legit way... to be honest, I've no knowledge in macro games or whatsoever, but using 3rd party programs, I've learned the concept of scouting and able to defend and have a concept or idea of what my opponent is doing. I've quitted on and off during the past year, now I'm a 1200 points HOTS Master...
I would say experience comes on handy.. everytime you lose, ask yourself what you did wrong. If you win, ask yourself what you can improve on and what your opponent's mistake and that way you will learn and process faster.
What?
Doesn't sound legit to me...
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It's kinda obvious when you think about it. It doesn't matter how many games or how much time you put into it while you are learning the game (which you are constantly). What you get from playing alot is mechanics (faster injects/chrono/mule/scan) and a better feel from the game out of experience. I play a decent amount, 365 this season but i can win vs players with 700 games played, or lose to people with 90 games played. If you actually try to learn things from the game, and instead of doing the same opening or always the same lategame no matter what, you will improve.
Talent is a huge part in sc2, and it is not fair, at all. I'm "talented" in a sense that i've highest league (except GM) since beta and that im around top 500-800 on ladder in EU. But there are so insanely many more talented players than me. The more you think about it, the sadder it is
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Also, if you want to see how wuch you've improved already and how well you play compared to where you (as we all) started - in bronze - log in to a different server, play placement matches. You will see things you are doing right and how good you are compared to others. Don't stick there for too long, though! 
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This appears to have turned into a therapy topic =) Nevertheless, I think that when you have grasped the basic concepts of the game, your time spent on playing affects very much on how well you perform. So, instead of considering 60 games per season, its more relevant if you played those 60 games in a row or just one game every day. The more often you play, the better you perform.
I used to be diamond on EU. I'm rather old I guess, above 30's and so. And because of my work I sometimes need to have breaks from the game (sometimes even several months). Now, I just had few week break and after that I decided to play on US (or is it AM nowadays?) server to get back into the game and try the new server feature. I kept losing to gold/platinum players on regular basis (I even started to think that AM server is much harder than EU). But as I just kept on grinding some games every day to get miself started, I hit diamond also on AM within a week.
So, just to cheer you up, it might be that it is just few days difference between failing against gold players and beating diamonds. It is important to know what you should be doing, and for that you do not need to play the game neccessarily. However, to actually be able to play well enough yourself, you need to play some eventually and preferably several games in a row.
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On April 26 2013 02:10 Mallidon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 13:00 nak0z wrote:
Well, I was bronze a year ago and never had any RTS experience but I've played shitloads of games ( I would say few thousands ) in the next 2 season. First season, bronze to top silver. Next season, top silver to top master in my division ( ranked #600ish) by cheesing every single game.
It is sad and boring so I've decided to play the legit way... to be honest, I've no knowledge in macro games or whatsoever, but using 3rd party programs, I've learned the concept of scouting and able to defend and have a concept or idea of what my opponent is doing. I've quitted on and off during the past year, now I'm a 1200 points HOTS Master...
I would say experience comes on handy.. everytime you lose, ask yourself what you did wrong. If you win, ask yourself what you can improve on and what your opponent's mistake and that way you will learn and process faster. What? Doesn't sound legit to me...
I used the program to know what my opponent is doing. I can still get to somewhere around the rank without any programs. I think that`s pretty legit. Even though you know when to safely macro up, but strategy and timings of when to push also plays an important role in higher leagues.
User was banned for this post.
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On April 25 2013 13:00 nak0z wrote:
I used the program to know what my opponent is doing. I can still get to somewhere around the rank without any programs. I think that`s pretty legit. Even though you know when to safely macro up, but strategy and timings of when to push also plays an important role in higher leagues.
There are thousands of players trying to improve the *real* legit way. By watching streams, studying guides and videos, analyzing their replays, playing practice games, and even paying for coaching. That's improvement the worn fingers, adrenaline pumping way.
Map hack is in no way, shape, or form crucial to understanding what your opponent is doing. In fact, it's the opposite of crucial. It's not a tool, it's not a crutch, it shouldn't even be an option. It's garbage, it's cheating, and any player who uses it is garbage too.
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On April 26 2013 04:37 nak0z wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 02:10 Mallidon wrote:On April 25 2013 13:00 nak0z wrote:
Well, I was bronze a year ago and never had any RTS experience but I've played shitloads of games ( I would say few thousands ) in the next 2 season. First season, bronze to top silver. Next season, top silver to top master in my division ( ranked #600ish) by cheesing every single game.
It is sad and boring so I've decided to play the legit way... to be honest, I've no knowledge in macro games or whatsoever, but using 3rd party programs, I've learned the concept of scouting and able to defend and have a concept or idea of what my opponent is doing. I've quitted on and off during the past year, now I'm a 1200 points HOTS Master...
I would say experience comes on handy.. everytime you lose, ask yourself what you did wrong. If you win, ask yourself what you can improve on and what your opponent's mistake and that way you will learn and process faster. What? Doesn't sound legit to me... I used the program to know what my opponent is doing. I can still get to somewhere around the rank without any programs. I think that`s pretty legit. Even though you know when to safely macro up, but strategy and timings of when to push also plays an important role in higher leagues.
The word you're looking for is not "legit," it is "cheating"
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On April 26 2013 04:37 nak0z wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 02:10 Mallidon wrote:On April 25 2013 13:00 nak0z wrote:
Well, I was bronze a year ago and never had any RTS experience but I've played shitloads of games ( I would say few thousands ) in the next 2 season. First season, bronze to top silver. Next season, top silver to top master in my division ( ranked #600ish) by cheesing every single game.
It is sad and boring so I've decided to play the legit way... to be honest, I've no knowledge in macro games or whatsoever, but using 3rd party programs, I've learned the concept of scouting and able to defend and have a concept or idea of what my opponent is doing. I've quitted on and off during the past year, now I'm a 1200 points HOTS Master...
I would say experience comes on handy.. everytime you lose, ask yourself what you did wrong. If you win, ask yourself what you can improve on and what your opponent's mistake and that way you will learn and process faster. What? Doesn't sound legit to me... I used the program to know what my opponent is doing. I can still get to somewhere around the rank without any programs. I think that`s pretty legit. Even though you know when to safely macro up, but strategy and timings of when to push also plays an important role in higher leagues.
As the two guys above have said, its cheating dude.
And I find it funny that you've posted twice in the general hacker thread complaining about others using stuff similar to what you've admitted using here.
Get rid of them, learn the hardest way, it's far more rewarding!
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On April 26 2013 04:37 nak0z wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 02:10 Mallidon wrote:On April 25 2013 13:00 nak0z wrote:
Well, I was bronze a year ago and never had any RTS experience but I've played shitloads of games ( I would say few thousands ) in the next 2 season. First season, bronze to top silver. Next season, top silver to top master in my division ( ranked #600ish) by cheesing every single game.
It is sad and boring so I've decided to play the legit way... to be honest, I've no knowledge in macro games or whatsoever, but using 3rd party programs, I've learned the concept of scouting and able to defend and have a concept or idea of what my opponent is doing. I've quitted on and off during the past year, now I'm a 1200 points HOTS Master...
I would say experience comes on handy.. everytime you lose, ask yourself what you did wrong. If you win, ask yourself what you can improve on and what your opponent's mistake and that way you will learn and process faster. What? Doesn't sound legit to me... I used the program to know what my opponent is doing. I can still get to somewhere around the rank without any programs. I think that`s pretty legit. Even though you know when to safely macro up, but strategy and timings of when to push also plays an important role in higher leagues.
But you dont learn to read the game, and because of that you dont learn ANY timings at all. Sorry but MH is just bullshit.
You only get good at this game if you accept that SC2 is a game of INCOMPLETE information. You have to read what little there is to read. It is hard but it comes with expierience WITHOUT USING ANY HACKS.
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The people who have 250+ games per season and are still in Platinum are not people you want to emulate.
I recently beat a Zerg in ladder who had 4000+ total games played with over 450 games this season. I flattened the poor bugger after scouting his cheese. Having a ton of games and not being 2000+ points in Masters means you are probably hovering around 50% win/loss ratio. And that means you are not improving, which in turn means you are probably stuck in your league.
In order to advance to a higher league, it's really important to focus on improving win/loss ratio. This would naturally net you more points. I only play around 35-50 games a season and have recently went from silver to diamond (I was placed low when I started HOTS because of a long hiatus that started towards the end of WOL). I am currently on a 7-game win streak. Whenever I lose, I sit back, look at the replay, see how I can improve, practice with friends in custom, then revisit ladder.
If you begin losing, really try to analyze why it happened. If you lost because of an uncharacteristic macro mistake, or some poorly scouted cheese, go ahead and play some more games, but if there is something fundamentally wrong with your play don't just hop back into ladder and throw more points away.
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On April 26 2013 05:47 okto wrote:
In order to advance to a higher league, it's really important to focus on improving win/loss ratio. This would naturally net you more points. I only play around 35-50 games a season and have recently went from silver to diamond (I was placed low when I started HOTS because of a long hiatus that started towards the end of WOL). I am currently on a 7-game win streak. Whenever I lose, I sit back, look at the replay, see how I can improve, practice with friends in custom, then revisit ladder.
I'm not sure about that. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but win/loss ratio has nothing to do with what league you're in, but rather only your opponents' MMR. Right? You can be promoted after a loss. In fact several people have lost to me and been promoted.
Lets say you're in Platinum but have a 50/50 win rate against players with higher MMR than you. The system gets more confident that you should be promoted to Diamond and voila, you're in Diamond.
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For reference I have played ~75 games and I am #2 dia, so no, you don't have to play a ton :p
The big difference is that you NEED to watch and STUDY pros much more. Understand their actions and WHY they made those decisions. I have ~150 apm (sc2 gears that is, about 220 sc2) and play bio/bio tank in all matchups with ~62% win ratio.
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I'm not sure about that. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but win/loss ratio has nothing to do with what league you're in, but rather only your opponents' MMR. Right? You can be promoted after a loss. In fact several people have lost to me and been promoted.
It's true you can promoted after a loss, but think of it this way. If you play 50 games and lose half of them, then that's 25 wins worth of points MINUS the 25 losses. If you win all 50 games then you get more points.
Also, a higher MMR means you face tougher opponents. When you face opponents who are favored against you, and you beat them, (and I may be mistaken here) you get more points. So while win/loss ratio is not the direct reason you get promoted, it is inherently tied to it.
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hey guys,
I think casual gaming is up until you feel the urge to want to increase in leagues, personally myself, i have played over 2000 4v4, random,without teams, and have only ever reached platinum.
Sure, i have ony played around 200 or so 1v1, and have only just recently started to play 1v1 as anxiety has slowly dropped away.
Im still finding that there is a constant urge to improve, and every game i go over my mistakes.
When you set goals, like myself wanting to get to diamond this next season, i think the days of casual are over haha
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If your passed the 500-600 win mark and still in a lower league, your doing something wrong and havent improved. Theres more than just grinding out games in expectation to be promoted that way.
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On April 25 2013 22:34 Docta-thunder wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 22:22 Dan26 wrote:
[b]
Summarily I'll say that winning IS everything, but keep it in the context of improving your game, respecting your opponent and having fun.
I like a lot that is your post, but do you think it would be fair to say that if your goal is to get better "improving" should be everything, instead of "winning"?
Well that's why I said "keep it in the context of improving your game". Even when I do win, I easily recognize a bad opponent, and equally recognize if I played badly.
You can win and still be disappointed.
You can lose and be extremely pleased.
But I'll say again, WINNING IS EVERYTHING in competition. It's the driving force behind the will to improve. If you're on a losing streak or just getting really pissed off you can't split marines against ling/bane/muta then work harder! And when you finally pull it off, celebrate your victory!
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I'm in Master and there are people in my league with like 20 games played this season...
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EPT
