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Geiko
France1939 Posts
In my experience, you can also only make one pylon behind pylon number 1 if they attack it. This leaves one space for a probe to attack and later on a zealot but he can never kill the cannon. You on the other hand can start your gateway at home much sooner and save your probe trapped behind his mineral line  . | ||
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
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Booser
United States4 Posts
One thing -- the benefits of building your first pylon elsewhere have already been mentioned above. I don't think pulling a probe for a couple seconds is that bad to block the first location you described, especially since a few seconds can mean the difference between a win and a loss. | ||
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BearStorm
United States795 Posts
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Orek
1665 Posts
People condemning/complaining about cannon rush are missing the point. Keep up your good work, troopshunter!! | ||
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ZeroReverse
Bulgaria108 Posts
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StarcraftGuy4U
United States74 Posts
ED: Also, to the OP, your guide is exceptional and cannon rushing is a "noob, basic strat" or whatever but your guide is pretty dang optimal, I certainly could do no better so props to you mate. | ||
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Aervhorn
Norway67 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
I did 13 probes but started to wall a bit earlier though which sometimes leads to problems if they choose to attack both pylons because i don't have enough money to rewall behind it. If you attack too late they have a fair shot with just rebuilding a nexus because they can actually continue to keep mining with 4 probes for a long time from the orignal nexus usually. I think the first pylon placement is a good way to defend this, actually filling the space with a gateway is not that great because you can use the wall against him by just walling with 2 pylons on the other end and then eventually a pylon to block out a zealot if neccesary. I also believe it's possible to glitch a probe past the left pylon and get in the spot to kill the probe. If you build a pylon while your probe stands just on the edge the probe will glitch past it i think, if you just do this with two probes you can defend it but I'm not exactly sure if this is possible. I tend to be the cannoner too and not the defender. edit: the gateway way is indeed worse than the double pylon wall. Gateway blocking can be started later than pylon block and takes up more of your own valuable room. Overall knowing how to do these kind of cannon rushes is really useful, daybreak may be the only map having this at the main but there are more maps with nice cannon spots behind natural or third that are good to use against zerg. Perhaps you could update with small list of those? | ||
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BearStorm
United States795 Posts
On April 05 2013 19:20 StarcraftGuy4U wrote: I think cheesy play should be encouraged as hard as possible *because* I like a macro game. "Cheese" is what sets the bar for greedy play compared to standard play. I like doing macro builds but I don't want to get three bases for free in the first 5 minutes unless that's actually, truly optimal. Greed and Cheese are oppposite sides of the same coin and I enjoy STANDARD play, so guides like this actually encourage the playstyle I enjoy. ED: Also, to the OP, your guide is exceptional and cannon rushing is a "noob, basic strat" or whatever but your guide is pretty dang optimal, I certainly could do no better so props to you mate. Cheese is generally known as something that is significantly weaker or has no chance of success once scouted, such as cannon rushing. I think what you are thinking of is all-in or heavy aggression play. That is what will test the limits of how greedy someone can be. Cannon rushing is hoping that someone doesn't scout your cannons. Although this guide seems to offer a cannon rush that is revealed immediately and should be stopped mechanically or prevented using building placement, it still does not test the limits of how greedy someone can be. It doesn't really offer anything substantial as far as long term growth for either player. | ||
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Poo
Canada536 Posts
Please write more cannon guides in the future. I'm sure many protoss players could benefit! edit: I'd also like to add some input to this guide. While your anti-cannon rush building placements are correct, there are problems placing other buildings/some safety issues as you outlined in your post. A safe anti-cannon method on this map I have found is by placing your 2nd pylon on 15 (before 2:30 in game time) behind the minerals (as shown in your 2nd image with the pylon/gateway). The pylon placement alone (without the additional gateway) will actually prevent cannon rushes from being successful due to the amt of surface area available for cannons to be placed. You can pull probes, attack pylons and get in there to destroy the cannon with probes + zealot. also the reason i outlined 2:30 as the in game time is b/c often this is the time where the 1st pylon is placed down and the cannon rush begins. aka, if your probe isn't behind the minerals already and put this pylon down, its pretty much gg. | ||
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troopshunter
Sweden8 Posts
On April 06 2013 01:50 Markwerf wrote: I think the first pylon placement is a good way to defend this, actually filling the space with a gateway is not that great because you can use the wall against him by just walling with 2 pylons on the other end and then eventually a pylon to block out a zealot if neccesary. I also believe it's possible to glitch a probe past the left pylon and get in the spot to kill the probe. If you build a pylon while your probe stands just on the edge the probe will glitch past it i think, if you just do this with two probes you can defend it but I'm not exactly sure if this is possible. I tend to be the cannoner too and not the defender. I thought that too in the beginning, But you can only "glitch/slide throw" your own building not the enemy buidling. Edit, Daybreak out of ladder map pool  TT | ||
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Vanimar
220 Posts
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