Good guide on the cannon rush, however your building placement at home is not good. The reason people wall at the ramp is because if you don't, the opponent can make 2 stalkers and kill you.

In my experience, you can also only make one pylon behind pylon number 1 if they attack it. This leaves one space for a probe to attack and later on a zealot but he can never kill the cannon. You on the other hand can start your gateway at home much sooner and save your probe trapped behind his mineral line

Nuclease

United States1049 Posts

April 05 2013 06:12 GMT

#22

Holy fuck please let's not propagate this type of play...I can't handle it.

igay

Australia1178 Posts

April 05 2013 06:50 GMT

#23

will be very careful on ladder when this map comes up lol

Booser

United States4 Posts

April 05 2013 07:15 GMT

#24

This is by far the best cannon-rushing guide I've ever seen. Props to OP!

One thing -- the benefits of building your first pylon elsewhere have already been mentioned above. I don't think pulling a probe for a couple seconds is that bad to block the first location you described, especially since a few seconds can mean the difference between a win and a loss.

BearStorm

United States795 Posts

April 05 2013 07:23 GMT

#25

I don't hate the guide, I think it's well done, and I think cheesy players are essential in helping real players develop their builds. But why do people cannon rush? Do people actually have fun flipping coins? I can understand people achievement hunting, but I imagine cannon rushers aren't all trying to get achievements. Also I bet they enjoy gambling at casinos.

Orek

1665 Posts

April 05 2013 08:13 GMT

#26

We need more guides like this. This is a very detailed guide on a strategy on a particular map. I like it, and I'm not even a Protoss player

People condemning/complaining about cannon rush are missing the point. Keep up your good work, troopshunter!!

ZeroReverse

Bulgaria108 Posts

April 05 2013 08:41 GMT

#27

I hate this build soooooooo~ much I had a friend do it to me in 30 games just to perfect its defense. Now if someone does this to me I smack him like a house fly and bm him to hell. Still a good guide, it will result in more free wins in PvP for me :D. Also people having troubles facing this build will be able to get better understanding of it. GJ ^^

StarcraftGuy4U

United States74 Posts

April 05 2013 10:20 GMT

#28

I think cheesy play should be encouraged as hard as possible *because* I like a macro game. "Cheese" is what sets the bar for greedy play compared to standard play. I like doing macro builds but I don't want to get three bases for free in the first 5 minutes unless that's actually, truly optimal. Greed and Cheese are oppposite sides of the same coin and I enjoy STANDARD play, so guides like this actually encourage the playstyle I enjoy.

ED: Also, to the OP, your guide is exceptional and cannon rushing is a "noob, basic strat" or whatever but your guide is pretty dang optimal, I certainly could do no better so props to you mate.

Aervhorn

Norway67 Posts

April 05 2013 11:00 GMT

#29

Nice write-up! I always hold my breath when enemy scouting probe does the usual scout circle behind them minerals on this map

Markwerf

Netherlands3728 Posts

April 05 2013 16:50 GMT

#30

I've been doing for a long time pretty similar to this. Exact same forge placement and 13 probes as well, funny to see I was roughly equal with an expert in this.
I did 13 probes but started to wall a bit earlier though which sometimes leads to problems if they choose to attack both pylons because i don't have enough money to rewall behind it.
If you attack too late they have a fair shot with just rebuilding a nexus because they can actually continue to keep mining with 4 probes for a long time from the orignal nexus usually.

I think the first pylon placement is a good way to defend this, actually filling the space with a gateway is not that great because you can use the wall against him by just walling with 2 pylons on the other end and then eventually a pylon to block out a zealot if neccesary.
I also believe it's possible to glitch a probe past the left pylon and get in the spot to kill the probe. If you build a pylon while your probe stands just on the edge the probe will glitch past it i think, if you just do this with two probes you can defend it but I'm not exactly sure if this is possible. I tend to be the cannoner too and not the defender.

edit: the gateway way is indeed worse than the double pylon wall. Gateway blocking can be started later than pylon block and takes up more of your own valuable room.
Overall knowing how to do these kind of cannon rushes is really useful, daybreak may be the only map having this at the main but there are more maps with nice cannon spots behind natural or third that are good to use against zerg. Perhaps you could update with small list of those?

BearStorm

United States795 Posts

April 06 2013 00:18 GMT

#31

On April 05 2013 19:20 StarcraftGuy4U wrote:
I think cheesy play should be encouraged as hard as possible *because* I like a macro game. "Cheese" is what sets the bar for greedy play compared to standard play. I like doing macro builds but I don't want to get three bases for free in the first 5 minutes unless that's actually, truly optimal. Greed and Cheese are oppposite sides of the same coin and I enjoy STANDARD play, so guides like this actually encourage the playstyle I enjoy.

ED: Also, to the OP, your guide is exceptional and cannon rushing is a "noob, basic strat" or whatever but your guide is pretty dang optimal, I certainly could do no better so props to you mate.

Cheese is generally known as something that is significantly weaker or has no chance of success once scouted, such as cannon rushing. I think what you are thinking of is all-in or heavy aggression play. That is what will test the limits of how greedy someone can be. Cannon rushing is hoping that someone doesn't scout your cannons. Although this guide seems to offer a cannon rush that is revealed immediately and should be stopped mechanically or prevented using building placement, it still does not test the limits of how greedy someone can be. It doesn't really offer anything substantial as far as long term growth for either player.

Poo

Canada536 Posts

April 08 2013 19:07 GMT

#32

excellent guide. The op clearly understands how to execute the daybreak cannon rush to perfection.
Please write more cannon guides in the future. I'm sure many protoss players could benefit!

edit:

I'd also like to add some input to this guide. While your anti-cannon rush building placements are correct, there are problems placing other buildings/some safety issues as you outlined in your post. A safe anti-cannon method on this map I have found is by placing your 2nd pylon on 15 (before 2:30 in game time) behind the minerals (as shown in your 2nd image with the pylon/gateway).

The pylon placement alone (without the additional gateway) will actually prevent cannon rushes from being successful due to the amt of surface area available for cannons to be placed. You can pull probes, attack pylons and get in there to destroy the cannon with probes + zealot.

also the reason i outlined 2:30 as the in game time is b/c often this is the time where the 1st pylon is placed down and the cannon rush begins. aka, if your probe isn't behind the minerals already and put this pylon down, its pretty much gg.

troopshunter

Sweden8 Posts

June 08 2013 18:50 GMT

#33

On April 06 2013 01:50 Markwerf wrote:

I think the first pylon placement is a good way to defend this, actually filling the space with a gateway is not that great because you can use the wall against him by just walling with 2 pylons on the other end and then eventually a pylon to block out a zealot if neccesary.
I also believe it's possible to glitch a probe past the left pylon and get in the spot to kill the probe. If you build a pylon while your probe stands just on the edge the probe will glitch past it i think, if you just do this with two probes you can defend it but I'm not exactly sure if this is possible. I tend to be the cannoner too and not the defender.

I thought that too in the beginning, But you can only "glitch/slide throw" your own building not the enemy buidling.

Edit, Daybreak out of ladder map pool