EPTI so love protoss :D
The HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 305
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
I so love protoss :D | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Vraggeol
Czech Republic15 Posts
I have I think a little... weird question to ask. When nearly maxed out with Stalkers/Sentries/Immortals and maybe some Colossi against Roach max, where to position Sentries in the army? http://ggtracker.com/matches/5570172 In this game, I play FFE against a little poorly executed Stephano style Roach max (don't know why he has cut Drones this early). However, I lose the third (maybe simcity should've been in the attack direction?), so I retreat and try to push with Stalker/Sentry/Immortal (and some Colossi as a backup). My Sentries are in the back of the army while I push, so they are unable to land some Forcefields that would rip him apart with his Roach pokes. However, would I keep them at the front, they would get sniped immediately by the Roaches. Any ideas how to utilize the Sentry positioning? Any help is appreciated. Vraggeol | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
The main problem is autoturrets ofc. ninja edit: and how do u guys react to mass reapers? i mean even if i dont take any damage (i always play robo) i cant leave my base (yes he made like 30+ reapers). | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On November 06 2014 04:17 insitelol wrote: I beg my pardon if it was discussed. But how do we deal with super late game Mass Raven + PF/siege tanks? The main problem is autoturrets ofc. ninja edit: and how do u guys react to mass reapers? i mean even if i dont take any damage (i always play robo) i cant leave my base (yes he made like 30+ reapers). 1) The main problems should not be autoturrets but point defense drones (otherwise just go mass tempests). Mass ravens is a really gas heavy composition a mech player should not be able to reach if you play agressive enough ; when recognizing mech, push out on the map with 2 colossi, 2 immortals and a handful of blink stalkers and try to delay his third as much as possible while you take your own third. If you can't break him, launch triple robo immortal production while sending hallucinations regularly to know the type of mech you're playing against (tanks + hellbats, vikings + mines, straight air behind some tanks + mines, mines banshees hellbats, etc) and react accordingly (immortals + a handful of colossi against tanks + hellbats, storms + whatever against mines vikings, air + storm against banshee heavy play, etc) while you take your fourth. You should not lose if you manage to limit the size of the T economy, especially the gas eco ; if he manages to secure four bases and launches raven productions without any problem, you'll probably lose. 2) Mass reapers is dealt with with mass stalkers + mothership core. Chronoboost stalkers from your first gate non stop once you see an unusual amount of reapers (2 is already unusual and you should spend a chronoboost on your first stalker once you recognize it) and add gates 2-3 quickly. Don't mine from your natural too quickly to avoid probe losses. Once you reach a good number of stalkers and have overcharge available you can safely transition to colossi and laugh at how much gas your opponent wasted. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
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PlacidPanda
United States246 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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tar
Germany991 Posts
On November 06 2014 04:01 Vraggeol wrote: Hello, I have I think a little... weird question to ask. When nearly maxed out with Stalkers/Sentries/Immortals and maybe some Colossi against Roach max, where to position Sentries in the army? http://ggtracker.com/matches/5570172 In this game, I play FFE against a little poorly executed Stephano style Roach max (don't know why he has cut Drones this early). However, I lose the third (maybe simcity should've been in the attack direction?), so I retreat and try to push with Stalker/Sentry/Immortal (and some Colossi as a backup). My Sentries are in the back of the army while I push, so they are unable to land some Forcefields that would rip him apart with his Roach pokes. However, would I keep them at the front, they would get sniped immediately by the Roaches. Any ideas how to utilize the Sentry positioning? Any help is appreciated. Vraggeol You basically answered it yourself: don't let them get stuck in the back, don't put them in front to be sniped. So the middle remains. However, if you need to rely on clutch FFs, the sentries are better kept closer to the front than to the back (even at the higher risk of losing them). Be that as it may, with regard to your replay: it seemed your sentries had been in range for FFs several times and you either didn't FF or you overrode the FF command with a move command right after. edit: spelling | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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Vraggeol
Czech Republic15 Posts
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tar
Germany991 Posts
On November 07 2014 03:56 Vraggeol wrote: tar: thank you for the answer. However, would the Sentries be in range, they would cast immediately and no move command could override them, or they were a little behind the range, and if I would let them finish (as I once did, those two misplaced FFs), they would be behind his army by the time. Or am I wrong? yep, you're right there. If they are in range, they cast instantly. In the replay, you had quite some opportunities to FF chokes and ramps to cut off his retreat path. In those cases, catching some roaches usually is better than not forcefielding at all, even if you don't get the whole chunk you were aiming for. You need to experiment a bit with sentries to get a feel for the delay. However, if it was intentional not to FF (especially since his roach army was really weak) that's fine too. Just wanted to point out a common mistake one often sees (ie overriding commands with move commands) when it comes to sentries. | ||
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Svizcy
Slovenia300 Posts
So if i decide i want to play templar instead of collosi, and i start with 0-2-0 upgrades from the forge, just as the Teoitas guide said, how do i go from there onwards? Do i start upgrading attack after that or shield armor cause archons would gain a lot from it or just 0-3-0 first or what? Second question is: If i do 1 gate MSC expand, and build robo as second production after i put down the nexus, is it then safe to start off with WP as a first unit? Cause i have this really bad feeling that i might just die to some bio push if i dont go straight to collosi after robo? I am reffereing to the bio push that usually hits when you have 1 collosi out and thermal lance not done yet, without medivacs. So i am really scared to face that without the pressence of collosi. All help apreaciated up front ofc. and good day all! | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On November 07 2014 19:45 Svizcy wrote: I have a question about templar based opening/midgame play in PvT: So if i decide i want to play templar instead of collosi, and i start with 0-2-0 upgrades from the forge, just as the Teoitas guide said, how do i go from there onwards? Do i start upgrading attack after that or shield armor cause archons would gain a lot from it or just 0-3-0 first or what? Second question is: If i do 1 gate MSC expand, and build robo as second production after i put down the nexus, is it then safe to start off with WP as a first unit? Cause i have this really bad feeling that i might just die to some bio push if i dont go straight to collosi after robo? I am reffereing to the bio push that usually hits when you have 1 collosi out and thermal lance not done yet, without medivacs. So i am really scared to face that without the pressence of collosi. All help apreaciated up front ofc. and good day all! Almost no one opens up with templars anymore. It gets crushed too hard by widow mines. Last time I saw it used in a high level tournament was Classic vs Polt who executed twice a weird opening with phoenixes into templars, but I'm not sure how good it is, he lost quite easily in the first game but won the second one. Probably phoenixes could be useful in picking off widow mines and denying drops, which are also pretty good against a composition with such little anti air. Anyway in general you should go for 0-3-0 first at that point, the fights are much about your armor upgrades vs. your opponent's weapon upgrades, as it will make a heavy difference on the damage dealt by marines. I'd suggest adding a 2nd forge and starting +3/+1 at the same time, it's definitely not an economic problem when you're on 3 bases and terran units just won't die if you have 0 weapon upgrades and he has +2 armor with lots of medivacs. Shield upgrades are not that important, also because EMPs make shields (and archons) useless. You want to start them as the last thing after 3/3 armor/weapons. 2) The problem is that a prism is useless if you don't have at least 3 warpgates to work with. So you'd have to go robo -> + 3 gateways and warp prism at the same time, which is quite expensive. It's risky and I don't think you can do that much damage with just zealots. I'd like it more if it was with DTs. | ||
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Vraggeol
Czech Republic15 Posts
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Gamlet
Ukraine336 Posts
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On November 07 2014 20:30 KingAlphard wrote: Almost no one opens up with templars anymore. It gets crushed too hard by widow mines. Last time I saw it used in a high level tournament was Classic vs Polt who executed twice a weird opening with phoenixes into templars, but I'm not sure how good it is, he lost quite easily in the first game but won the second one. Probably phoenixes could be useful in picking off widow mines and denying drops, which are also pretty good against a composition with such little anti air. Anyway in general you should go for 0-3-0 first at that point, the fights are much about your armor upgrades vs. your opponent's weapon upgrades, as it will make a heavy difference on the damage dealt by marines. I'd suggest adding a 2nd forge and starting +3/+1 at the same time, it's definitely not an economic problem when you're on 3 bases and terran units just won't die if you have 0 weapon upgrades and he has +2 armor with lots of medivacs. Shield upgrades are not that important, also because EMPs make shields (and archons) useless. You want to start them as the last thing after 3/3 armor/weapons. 2) The problem is that a prism is useless if you don't have at least 3 warpgates to work with. So you'd have to go robo -> + 3 gateways and warp prism at the same time, which is quite expensive. It's risky and I don't think you can do that much damage with just zealots. I'd like it more if it was with DTs. You don't need gates ready as soon as the warp prism is out. If you want to use it just to counter attack, you have to get it while your robo bay is still going up, otherwise it will inevitably disrupt colossi production. Whether you can hold a stim push or not depends on how many units you have and the tools available at your disposal. I can safely say that even if you make 3 stalkers off of 1 gate while getting a warp prism and a robo bay before adding gates, you should still be able to deal with any 9:00-9:30 stim timing. You can easily have a colossus out at 9 min as long as you chrono boost it and your gateways should be ready at this point. I've held stim timings even when going 3 stalkers --> robo bay + twilight --> double forge before gates (no warp prism though), although you need 1-2 cannons if it's a really dedicated push. What I do if I want to go double forge colossi with fast blink and still harass with a warp prism isn't much different from my regular colossus build. Basically, I msc expand and go robo ---> stalker --> wg (rather than stalker --> robo --> wg), because I don't like to give up map vision. So I take my geysers at my natural at 6:00-6:10 as usual, a robo bay slightly before 7 min followed by a twilight while making 4 observers. Then you add gates and chrono boost a warp prism out twice. Double forge when money allows (as opposed to 7:40-8:00 double forge). You can still get a colossus out as early as 9:15 at the very least. I'd say probably even as early as 9 minutes, but I can't confirm it because I haven't done this build much. I've done this build with a dark shrine soon after blink too (you can drop the terran at about 10:30 iirc), but you have to sacrifice upgrades for a long time so it's obviously riskier. That's still a reasonable way to take a third earlier and keep the terran at home if he likes to skip turrets. Even if the terran sees the 7:00-7:10 twilight, he can't be sure whether it's dts or not, since this timing is pretty standard for a double forge colossus build. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
If I open Phoenixes, they drone to 80, take the whole map, and win eventually. If I open with Oracle and take a fast 3rd, same thing. If I don't open Stargate I have zero map presence and I die to some unscouted tech. Any games you recommend watching just to catch up on some standard PvZ? I stopped playing for a bit and I've gotten REALLY bad at this game -____-. | ||
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