EPTIt's definitely a viable playstyle, but it also has higher variance than more passive robo play. At the end of the day, both work out.
The HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 210
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
It's definitely a viable playstyle, but it also has higher variance than more passive robo play. At the end of the day, both work out. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
Yesterday I did an FFE with Stargate immediately after core and 4 Gates w/ +1 research. Hit as soon as 3 VR were done and rallied the 4th. Had something like 8 sentries and 8 Zealots with Zealot/Stalker warpins after that. I annihilated my opponent. Problem is I'm banking like 2K minerals 1K gas because I just can't spend it fast enough once the build is going - but at the same time if I add extra gates early it delays the push. So if I'm playing a better opponent that is more prepared, it seems inefficient. So the logical thing to do would be to tech to storm and expand behind this push like Naniwa does. But if I want to just kill him right there? Anyone seen something like that I can copy or steal bits from? Thanks! | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
@darklord: your build is fine. Watch out because some builds hit a slightly faster medivac timing, so be very careful with your scouting and make/position units accordingly. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On December 20 2013 03:03 Teoita wrote: Void ray/7gate allins and void ray/4gate +1 pressure are reeeeally old builds. Both are covered in the WoL PvZ guide. @darklord: your build is fine. Watch out because some builds hit a slightly faster medivac timing, so be very careful with your scouting and make/position units accordingly. There have been some changes since then though > Muta and Hydra have received buffs, Void Rays work differently, Mothership Core exists. Just wondering if those change anything. On December 20 2013 02:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Quick question. If terran opens with 1rax FE into Innovation's 2rax (1 tech lab, 1 reactor) -> factory -> starport build, are there any measures I need to take against it or am I completely fine doing what I would usually do (which is a single forge, charge, 2 gates, archives, 2 gates build) 2 Rax into Medivacs obviously gets faster Medivacs than 3, so you have faster Medivacs but with slightly fewer units. Terrans have been doing these faster Medivac timings a lot lately so I have just been rushing to Colossus after my natural Nexus and building 1-2 Immortals while Colossus Den finishes. I think your build seems fine. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
Reaper FE->2rax medivac actually hits about as fast as the old WoL style 1rax FE->3rax medivac because the reaper obvoiusly delays the terran's econ. I think you can hold just fine if you start making units slightly earlier (about 30 seconds) than normal. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On December 20 2013 03:16 Teoita wrote: Hmm i think void ray allins if anything are worse than ever tbh; they are not stronger than immortal allins and those have been made significantly weaker by the hydra buff (which breaks my heart btw). Naniwa has been using it quite successfully though (but he's one of the only ones doing it). The reason I started doing it is because there's nothing more frustrating to play against than the Muta transition (so I want to have my SG ready to go) but Phoenix openings are too passive IMO because good Zergs will just continue droning up like crazy. So I think this is a good in between. But you need really good FF once lots of Hydras start coming out... | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On December 20 2013 06:15 Teoita wrote: This so much. Tbh, void ray allins aren't THAT strong if you know they are comming. But 1 void ray to kill overlords and then pump out 2 or 3 more that you hide can really catch a zerg player off guard. Immortal all-ins are usually much more obvious but does on the other hand hit harder.It's a strong compliment to Naniwa's macro void ray play for obvious reasons, so in that sense you can use it as a "metagame" build. Creator did the same at the start of HotS. As ar as raw strength of the push goes, i feel like there's more powerful builds out there; it's definitely a more deceptive one though, because the stargate tech often signals macro/passive play and it denies scouting very efficiently. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
From this replay i seem to be arriving at his base at 10 mins. | ||
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Extenz
Italy822 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On December 20 2013 10:54 Extenz wrote: so how do you counter ultra queen infestor? i had voids archon templars chargelot and everything melt to shit vs that op crap Immortal + Archon and some templar to feedback the queens. It's pretty strong but you should notice if he's doing it ahead of time (like if he has 15 queens just hanging out...) Don't make chargelots against Ultras, its a waste of money. | ||
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Mantaza
Germany87 Posts
On December 20 2013 10:54 Extenz wrote: so how do you counter ultra queen infestor? i had voids archon templars chargelot and everything melt to shit vs that op crap well less zeals mroe immortal but actually voidray templar archon is perfect against ultras. Maybe you missmicroed (not focusing ultras and not feedbacking queens ?) zeals are a waste tho. | ||
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city42
1656 Posts
On December 20 2013 10:54 Extenz wrote: so how do you counter ultra queen infestor? i had voids archon templars chargelot and everything melt to shit vs that op crap It's pretty nice to drop HTs on top of his army in the middle of the fight, feedbacking everything. As far as army composition goes, chargelot archon immortal is fine (make sure you have +3 weapons). Obviously chargelots fare poorly against ultras, but you may as well build some since maxing on pure immortal archon is almost impossible. Blinding cloud can be a real nuisance so prioritize feedbacking the vipers. If you have a few sentries left over from midgame, it never hurts to hallucinate immortals. I recently played against someone who added a handful of broodlords to that composition, camping my expansion and forcing me to engage since I had no real antiair. Adding a few tempests would be good against this, but only if you take care of the vipers. | ||
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lib_
Germany22 Posts
i saw rotterdam and MaximusBlack play it, but i cant find the VOD or a BO in the forum. i only know u play on 1 gas, get forge for +1 attack, robo for warp prism, stop at 35 probes and attack as soon as possible with 8 gates when warp gate research is done. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
I think Alej's old timing attack thread also had a build: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333477 (But it might be the same as in the old mega WOL guide.) | ||
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Rickyvalle21
United States320 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
On December 20 2013 10:00 DinoMight wrote: If I'm doing it correctly, when should a VR / sentry push hit off 4 gates? From this replay i seem to be arriving at his base at 10 mins. Zealot/Void ray hits at around 8 minutes. If you include with sentries you want to allin with that so go up to 7ish gates and yeah, 10 minutes is a decent timing to aim for. On December 20 2013 10:54 Extenz wrote: so how do you counter ultra queen infestor? i had voids archon templars chargelot and everything melt to shit vs that op crap Your army composition is fine (as long as you have one immortal for each ultra) so likely you messed up the engagement, you need to hit feedbacks and focus fire immortals. Can't say any more without seeing a replay. On December 20 2013 19:24 Rickyvalle21 wrote: Whats the appropriate response to scouting spire with my phoenix. I try not to overeact and since I already have 5-6 phoenix on the map, I just make constant phoenix production(no fleet beacon) but then still get rolled but muta corruptor while going blink colossus. The biggest problem I had was deal with the corruptors. Do I just make voidrays to deal with them or pheonix range and mass phoenix? Only reason I open stargate is because of muta but I still have alot of trouble deal with mass mass muta even if I open stargate. For me it is very frusterating. It's a really tough aspect of PvZ actually. You need to have very different responses vs muta or corruptor; it's hard to tell the difference but generally if you also scout a ground army being made it's likely corruptors, otherwise it'll be muta. Vs corruptor based timings you can go either void ray or blink but not both; it sounds like you are teching too hard and not having enough units. Vs muta you do need phoenix, and eventually you have to switch into something like chargelot/archon or void ray to stop his corruptors. The idea behind going zealot/archon is that you will destory his ling ground army, so you can keep his flying units at bay while sniping his bases. | ||
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shivver
United States232 Posts
On December 20 2013 19:24 Rickyvalle21 wrote: Whats the appropriate response to scouting spire with my phoenix. I try not to overeact and since I already have 5-6 phoenix on the map, I just make constant phoenix production(no fleet beacon) but then still get rolled but muta corruptor while going blink colossus. The biggest problem I had was deal with the corruptors. Do I just make voidrays to deal with them or pheonix range and mass phoenix? Only reason I open stargate is because of muta but I still have alot of trouble deal with mass mass muta even if I open stargate. For me it is very frusterating. you know this question drove me so insane for so long I finally settled in on collosi/void/templar as my core army and what I'll do is leave my last 20-30 supply for around 7 phoenix with range already upgraded and the rest of the supply for warp prism harass. generally most z's I run into will go roach/hydra and then transition into the 30 mutas or w/e and then corruptors. It's always some variation of this and the only way I've ever been able to handle it is with void/collosi/templar/phoenix with 2 prisms's out on the map for when he moves out. I keep the phoenix away from my main army, I can't afford to lose them in the eventual battle vs roach/hydra or ultras or w/e. Just use them for scouting and when the mass of mutas come, chronos those stargates still blows my mind how pros are able to use blink stalkers in the higher level games. I don't know how they make it work. | ||
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