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On July 18 2015 08:45 dchaudh wrote: Can anyone recommend TvT builds that perform well against auto-turret doom drop?
I encounter this strategy quite often these days. Marine hellion elevator hasn't worked that well given they'll have a tank out by the time I elevator in. And I've died pretty fast whenever I opened Reaper FE.
Am wondering what non-mirror builds perform well against the 2 medivac/2 tank/marine/autoturret doom drop.
Thanks!
A standard gas first reaper and raven/viking open is probably best against this sort of strategy. As someone else mentioned positioning your units is extremely important. Try to be aware of the common timing this attack hits at, use a scan if needed, and positioning your vikings so you can deny as much airspace as possible.
So I've been playing a lot recently trying to get into Master's before Summer Break ends. I need some help tho.
I find that my TvZ is really really good since I read the 4M guide. I've been consistently winning around 70-80% of my games and feel very confident. I often play my TvZ very aggressively and I've been wondering if this is the same approach to take against Protoss. I do the 10 min push with my medivacs and sometimes get damage done. Sometimes I also snipe a nexus. I guess my question next is: What next? The protoss usually has around 3 colossi out by this point and my heavy investment in medivacs to drop often leaves me with no vikings. Should I double Starport and cut mine production at around min 11:30 or 12? Another question about toss that leaves me stumped is how to engage an army with colossi and storm. Am I the initiator like in TvZ or do I just wait for him to attack. I find that if I wait, the toss can just stomp over my army and if I attack, I still get crushed because I don't know how to engage. I've tried nukes, blanket EMPs, snipe, nothing is working though.
Finally, I'm really confident in my TvT if I can get into the mid game with tanks and marines. I was wondering if anyone could give me the safest build against a terran. I really like to use reapers so any build with reapers will be much appreciated. I want a build to be safe against banshees, a siege tank push, and early hellion drop. I also want a build that guarantees me to get a quicker natural than my opponent. Right now, I'm really really struggling with this. Any suggestions or build orders.
So I've been playing a lot recently trying to get into Master's before Summer Break ends. I need some help tho.
I find that my TvZ is really really good since I read the 4M guide. I've been consistently winning around 70-80% of my games and feel very confident. I often play my TvZ very aggressively and I've been wondering if this is the same approach to take against Protoss. I do the 10 min push with my medivacs and sometimes get damage done. Sometimes I also snipe a nexus. I guess my question next is: What next? The protoss usually has around 3 colossi out by this point and my heavy investment in medivacs to drop often leaves me with no vikings. Should I double Starport and cut mine production at around min 11:30 or 12? Another question about toss that leaves me stumped is how to engage an army with colossi and storm. Am I the initiator like in TvZ or do I just wait for him to attack. I find that if I wait, the toss can just stomp over my army and if I attack, I still get crushed because I don't know how to engage. I've tried nukes, blanket EMPs, snipe, nothing is working though.
Finally, I'm really confident in my TvT if I can get into the mid game with tanks and marines. I was wondering if anyone could give me the safest build against a terran. I really like to use reapers so any build with reapers will be much appreciated. I want a build to be safe against banshees, a siege tank push, and early hellion drop. I also want a build that guarantees me to get a quicker natural than my opponent. Right now, I'm really really struggling with this. Any suggestions or build orders.
Thanks!
Regarding TvP:
It depends on what you are trying to do: If you play the standard reaper into 3 barracks w/9 minute-9:30 3rd base + standard move out w/medivacs then most players used to either transition into a 15 min +1/+1 scv pull (ala Innovation, Flash, Bomber, etc) This style was very popular for a long time in HOTS. You can play add 3 ghosts to that if you'd like for the 3 ghost lazy boy push that can be quite nice. This is as juxtaposed to the old way that players like Taeja would try to fight straight up with Protoss in the late game. (late WOL/HOTS for a while)
Typically most Terran players in the modern metagame open factory and either do hellion runby's or Mine drop's (because widow mines are awesome). This strategy obviously delays your bio timings at the expense of doing damage with mines.) A lot of Korean Terran's have even moved to not even making vikings and playing a macro game with bio aggression splitting across the protoss army.
As to how to fight Deathaballs, the TL user EJK made this awesome video:
In Regards to TvT, I actually responded to a comment about this question on a previous page of this thread. I like an early gas first with reaper into either banshee or raven/viking. Banshee's openers are incredibly versatile, particularly when paired with a reaper for extra damage potential, safety, and scouting potential.
Here's a game from Cure which I like his build as a standard way to play in TvT in the modern meta:
On July 18 2015 08:45 dchaudh wrote: Can anyone recommend TvT builds that perform well against auto-turret doom drop?
I encounter this strategy quite often these days. Marine hellion elevator hasn't worked that well given they'll have a tank out by the time I elevator in. And I've died pretty fast whenever I opened Reaper FE.
Am wondering what non-mirror builds perform well against the 2 medivac/2 tank/marine/autoturret doom drop.
Thanks!
As someone else mentioned positioning your units is extremely important. Try to be aware of the common timing this attack hits at, use a scan if needed, and positioning your vikings so you can deny as much airspace as possible.
Yo this is good advice, especially the part about positioning your units. I do that tank drop build a lot in TvT, I really like it, and in my opinion seeing it coming and having your stuff positioned properly makes a much bigger difference than what build you are doing. Even if you have a good army, if you are totally 100% out of position and I get both tanks sieged and autoturrets deployed before the fight begins you are in a lot of trouble. If you are standing right there before the first unit unloads and/or damaging the medivacs before they even unload that's not so great for me. Try to hold any relevant watchtower(s) and/or have a marine a bit outside your natural, so you can have most of your army in your main or between main and nat. Then if an attack is coming at your nat, your tower/spotting marine gives you time to pull army to nat. If they drop in your main, tanks or otherwise, you can respond faster cause your units are right there in the main already.
About builds though, as far as I can tell 15 gas reactor expand into fact or reaper expand into fact can both hold just fine with proper positioning. So if you wanna decide to be the defender in early game TvT I'd do one of those, they are all around solid openers afaik. 15 gas is especially solid if you wanna just defend vs any and all shenanigans, though vs plenty of stuff you have just barely enough time to properly react.
Hey Terrans. I asked this question in the zerg thread. Figured what better place to get a answer but here.
How is the ledge on moonlight madness not broken as fuck? For those not familiar I'm talking the one between main and third base, though there are others. First, he can snipe your gas and you can't do anything. Second, you are forced to keep a significant group of ling bane there. Third, you can't clear it with mutas. You essentially have to wait until he feels like leaving. All the while he can drop third or main whenever he wants and just boost back the safety of the cliff.
I'm 2 seconds from vetoing this map, but can be convinced otherwise. A replay would be nice. Di level.
On July 24 2015 02:01 Insurgents wrote: is it viable to get a Raven in TvZ to clear creep?
If you have a healthy medivac count then I don't see why not. However, scans are cheap enough that you can clear creep endlessly with 3 CC (orbitals) anyway. Normally once you land your third, you drop ALL your mules and save energy for scans for the rest of the game.
In addition, ravens might mess up your army control as it takes priority over bio so you would need an extra control group if you want to use stim.
On July 24 2015 02:01 Insurgents wrote: is it viable to get a Raven in TvZ to clear creep?
If you have a healthy medivac count then I don't see why not. However, scans are cheap enough that you can clear creep endlessly with 3 CC (orbitals) anyway. Normally once you land your third, you drop ALL your mules and save energy for scans for the rest of the game.
In addition, ravens might mess up your army control as it takes priority over bio so you would need an extra control group if you want to use stim.
Ravens are not worth it in TvZ for the most part.
Issues:
Mutalisks can kill them fairly easily if targeted Ravens are expensive Ravens are slow Ravens require a tech lab on a starport (therefore time not producing medivacs) Ravens are slow to produce. Ravens mess with your priority control group
This is why Terran's just don't make Ravens in TvZ, it's just sub optimal in most ways.
Protoss always rape me when they go 2 base collossus all in. How should I react to that? Even If I killed many probes with hellions or widow mine drops after I see no 3rd nexus I instantly know Im dead. I can not hold the agression and If I hold I got too far behind to win the game any way.
On August 07 2015 04:51 00Zarathustra wrote: Protoss always rape me when they go 2 base collossus all in. How should I react to that? Even If I killed many probes with hellions or widow mine drops after I see no 3rd nexus I instantly know Im dead. I can not hold the aggression and If I hold I got too far behind to win the game any way.
I typically open 1-1-1 with a window mine drop and then transition into mech with mines supported by tanks and vikings. In my experience tank/viking with some buffer units deals easily with Colossus + gateway units especially when the Colossus count is low which it will be in a 2-base all-in.
If you insist on going bio against Protoss I do not know since I have not much experience with bio.
Yeah well... changing the whole way I play is not what I was hoping to listen. People do fine in top masters and GM with bio I just don't know what to do vs 2 base 6/7 gatewayss 3 colossus all in.
On August 07 2015 05:30 00Zarathustra wrote: Yeah well... changing the whole way I play is not what I was hoping to listen. People do fine in top masters and GM with bio I just don't know what to do vs 2 base 6/7 gatewayss 3 colossus all in.
3 bunkers at your natural, don't bother trying to hold a third. Make sure you have SCVs pre-pulled for repair, you will lose mining time yes but if you hold, you are much further ahead than he is. Churn out as many vikings as you can and try to pick off the colossus
@00Zarathustra WHen u scout the robobay at 8 minutes, you should first send medidrop mines into b1 not b2 in order to confirm more quickly colossus production. At the same time, cancel last mine,lift factory, switch with starport and go for 1 medivac and 1 viking, 1 medivac in order to have 2 of them(with the medidrop) and viking to defend b1 in case of protoss goes for fastprism. As soon as you drop and see colo and range upgrade, you have to strat poping viking 2p2 3 times. (6+1 vikings 2shot colossus). Also 1colossus+1upgraderobobay+1colossus in production(probably) spotted so 500 gas, 7 viking is 525 You build reactor instead of switching, more time lost. FastColossus push is about 9 range. If you dont have vikings when he attacks you, it's already over. I'll edit with rep when i search/find one edit: I tried to find something got this one with speed prism and colossus drop to show how a protoss player can adapt video There is also this video where the guy explains several good points ( marauder over maries, viking, 2 straport, concave ramp placement, etc) video
If he goes double proxy reaper and you go 1-1-1 you die. Fighting with workers and a few marines against mass reapers does not work if you do not have good micro.
So instead I open 2-1-1 which defeats proxy reapers but gets you really behind against aggressive 1-1-1 which could be anything from tank/viking/marine push, to 1 base doomdrop, to marine/hellion elevator attacks.
Basically I can defeat proxy reapers and I can defeat aggressive 1-1-1 attacks but not both. If there any opening that is safe against both?
On August 08 2015 04:03 Cazimirbzh wrote: @00Zarathustra WHen u scout the robobay at 8 minutes, you should first send medidrop mines into b1 not b2 in order to confirm more quickly colossus production. At the same time, cancel last mine,lift factory, switch with starport and go for 1 medivac and 1 viking, 1 medivac in order to have 2 of them(with the medidrop) and viking to defend b1 in case of protoss goes for fastprism. As soon as you drop and see colo and range upgrade, you have to strat poping viking 2p2 3 times. (6+1 vikings 2shot colossus). Also 1colossus+1upgraderobobay+1colossus in production(probably) spotted so 500 gas, 7 viking is 525 You build reactor instead of switching, more time lost. FastColossus push is about 9 range. If you dont have vikings when he attacks you, it's already over. I'll edit with rep when i search/find one
Now that's what I'm talking about. Many things I didn't know.
Thank you very much. This will help me a lot. Plz don't forget about the rep. :D
EPT
