EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 286
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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KonanTenshi
Sweden210 Posts
On June 15 2014 04:00 NexT_SC2 wrote: I need help in late game tvt. I just don't know how to play mech or sky terran. Here's an example. http://drop.sc/382757 In that game, he goes for an early siege tank doom drop and I clean it up without too much trouble. Then I go for a counter attack to find that he has turtled hard so I start changing to mech only to find he has gone mass ravens...never seen that before. Just so you know. After his doom drop you was so far behind you could've litterary just A move and look away to win. But to help you out a bit. You should've started to drop him/ look for counter attacks when you deflected his doom drop early stages. Be more active on the map with your units, you got the mobile terran army when he quite litterary got no army at all for a great while. When you scan at the 15 minute you do not want to scan the natural, you either want to find out his unit comp or factory, to do that just send a stray marine to find his army position and scan it. Or scan is his main. I do think you move out WAY to late considering your unit composition. You'll want to move out around 10-12 minute mark with your first medivacs to see where you can poke around and do stuff. And his turrest are very close to the low ground so you can litterary just snipe them off while giving high ground vision with medivacs. and try to have a marine at every possible third so you can simply go there and snipe it. And take the map control, take the xel nagas so you see him incoming. When you see that comp either go tank viking raven, or marine tank medivac. you can skip out on the hellbats not sure why you produce them. and you'll want to baby sit yiour army so a single SM don't kill it, which you had happen a few times. You could've litterary just a move any point after 15 minute mark up his ramp to kill his natural and win the game. and when you see someone turtle this hard like this guy does, just take every expansion on the map and sensor tower him in so you see every move this guy does. Hope I'm not to harsh but I'm simply not going to watch you die to auto turrets the last 7 minutes. TL/DR You could've just a moved any point after 15 minute mark to take the game, gotten either marine tank medivac comp and split against SM or Tank viking raven and reconquer the air dominance. You'll need to split vs SM eitherway. Expand more aggressive and take map control so you see his moveouts easier. TL/DR Hope it helps and I'm not to harsh on you. | ||
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KonanTenshi
Sweden210 Posts
On June 14 2014 01:49 geokilla wrote: My macro and micro slipped a bit in the beginning. Is that the reason why I lost in this game? How am I supposed to win in a TvZ match such as this after that bad start? I'm looking for my Masters promotion and I just can't seem to get it. That mass Muta ball and mass Baneling ball is very difficult to deal with and I really don't know how to deal with it. Thors are too slow, though they were great in this particular game. Widow Mines deal more damage against my Marines than against Zerglings and Banelings. I don't have the Godly micro of Polt, Taeja, or Bomber either. Reading a couple posts above, it seems that I need more Marauders and have them at the front of the line to tank the Baneling explosions? I should note I am like Polt and only play Bio. I don't really like Mech because it is so immobile. Plus I just don't play Mech so I don't know the builds or timings. http://www.ggtracker.com/matches/5131580 You're to idle on your reapers. You saw his gas timing you should've seen you need to evacuate around 5.45 mark to be homesafe with reapers to be able to do the following reaper hellion banshee push. And you simply leaves your reaper to die so cruel of you lol. Also, you just sit tight in your base with hellion banshee. take the map control and see if anything is acctuall going on, maybe another roach bust? deny creep spreading, you don't know anything going on here. Your armory is late as well to make the follow up for 2-2. You randomly stop SCV production a short moment before you grab your third, don't. You don't have larvae to insta saturate it. When you finally land your third (late in my opinion but you couldn't take it earlier since you dno what's going on) you don't restart SCV production.... . Way to late scans. Use your hellion and banshe or skip out on the banshee in total... when you finally moves out you simply donates half your army to him, every single hellbat to kill some creep. and take the xel naga towers or avoid them when planing to drop. And don't fly 4 medivacs togheter split them up so you drop at 2 or more places at once. couldn't help notice at 16 min mark you float around 300-800 minerals, more production to sink those minerals, you're not even maxed. You're not active enough on the map, you need to use your hellions at the start more. when you get medivacs you cleanse creep like you did but don't lose half our army doing so. Drop, drop, drop. do multipronged attacks. Be more greedy. You need to trade with him a lot more than you currently do. you're just giving free 16 minutes to bank up so he can suicide his army and remax on suitable counter (ultra muta most likley) you moved command your whole army into his at the 17.20 mark and when he counter attacks you don't really split your marines till it's to late, you had lucky widow mine hits. You could've done that way more into your favour by pre splitting at least a little bit. You're not using your 3-3 window at all, all you do is being held back by his muta flock. when he engages you at the fourth you could've simply countered, perhaps kill his fifth. Force him to be defensive. you need to drop WAY more than you do. or at least show some presence on the map. Improve that macro also. | ||
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On June 16 2014 11:51 KingofGods wrote: Depends how many corners you cut. You don't have to cut anything and you can still hit earlier than 8:30. | ||
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Andannius
United States7 Posts
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GRiXiS
8 Posts
On June 17 2014 00:24 Andannius wrote: Everything in this regard seems quite outdated on the Liquipedia, and I don't think there's a search function for this thread, so I'm just gonna ask: when should I drop my factories when playing mech vT? I've generally been opening 12/12 with a reaper into reactor +factory for hellions, but I don't know how I should time out my second and third factories or the fourth and fifth ones. Obviously this depends on the reaper scout (that is, whether banshees are likely or not) but in either case I'm unsure. Halp? If you're opening reaper, drop the factory as the first thing after your expansion. If you start the factory after the third supply depot it will finish too late, if you start if before your cc you will not have the economy to use it. The second factory should be the first 100 gas after starport, and I don't even drop my third factory until the ten minute mark (after my third cc and two gasses in natural). If you watched FlaSh vs. Bbyong and you're Terran, I recommend you do that ASAP. Study these games and you'll be a boss mechanical player. FlaSh vs Bbyong bo7 Sandisk Invitational Tl;dr FlaSh's mech expand goes like this (this is the 15 gas version, the 12/12 version is similar) 10 depot 1 12 rax 15 gas Orbital Command, 2 marines out of barracks Depot 2 Reactor after 2nd Marine Command Center on low-ground Factory @ 100 gas 2 marines when reactor finishes. After these two marines, lift off Barracks 2nd gas @ 50% factory Add Factory to reactor, start starport for a viking to defend banshees or drops @ 100% starport, start second factory (first 100 gas after starport starts) @~50% 2nd factory, start a tech-lab on the barracks, swap over. @ 100% 2nd factory, switch onto the tech lab and start blue flame The second thing out of your starport should be a medi-vac to drop the opponent's main base with 4 hellions. The drop should line up with blue-flame finishing. Also, the drop should aim for a blind spot in the opponent's base (you want the opponent to be blind-sided by four hellions sprinting behind the mineral line). Play Starcraft! | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
And outline how to vary it against popular aggression (like against 1base blink, 2base blink or oracles). Currently rolling with mass hellions and mines against protoss, but I'd like to have some sharper version of opening for that. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
1. When do you start building the CC, before or after you have started building the starport? 2. When do you take the 2nd gas, before or after you have started building the starport? | ||
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
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KonanTenshi
Sweden210 Posts
On June 17 2014 05:38 MockHamill wrote: When playing TvT and doing a defensive 1-1-1 with viking/tank/marine, a turret in your mineral line and building the CC in your main: 1. When do you start building the CC, before or after you have started building the starport? 2. When do you take the 2nd gas, before or after you have started building the starport? Depends if you do it out of 1 or 2 gas. If it's 2 gas you'll get it after the SP if it's 1 gas it's personal preference, I tend to get mine before SP | ||
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
On June 17 2014 06:19 Dingodile wrote: how many vikings I need to fight 4+ collossi? I think 14 Vikings one shot a colossus, so 14-16 (?) | ||
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surreal1600
United States33 Posts
On June 17 2014 00:24 Andannius wrote: Everything in this regard seems quite outdated on the Liquipedia, and I don't think there's a search function for this thread, so I'm just gonna ask: when should I drop my factories when playing mech vT? I've generally been opening 12/12 with a reaper into reactor +factory for hellions, but I don't know how I should time out my second and third factories or the fourth and fifth ones. Obviously this depends on the reaper scout (that is, whether banshees are likely or not) but in either case I'm unsure. Halp? Day9 has a few dailys on the topic. The Flash vs Bbyong game from the SanDisk ShoutCraft Invitational : http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-715-flash-vs-bbyong/ Ryung's Marine/Raven into Mech : http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-666/ and the Dayshii vs Grubby game of mass Hellions that some one asked for : http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-694-dayshis-mech-vs-protoss/ | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
I assume the opening is standard 12/12 reaper into reactor factory, just wondering what the plan is after that, do I get a starport or go for the armory straight away? I'm only in diamond so nothing too fancy please  | ||
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geokilla
Canada8245 Posts
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Dunmer
United Kingdom568 Posts
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qapuk
United States71 Posts
On June 18 2014 00:26 Dunmer wrote: Bunkers and turrets at your main ramp and hold there with scvs to repair. Try to keep something out on the map too so you can see if he is committing or if he expanded. Target down the Oracles first of he tries to break your bunkers or else they will kill the scvs before you can repair. Depending on the base layout you may want to put a terran around your production so the oracle cant pick off marines for free I cannot understand you. | ||
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GRiXiS
8 Posts
On June 17 2014 22:40 Ctone23 wrote: Does anyone know the specific timing of the armory when going for a fast hellbat push in T v Z? I heard that Taeja had a lot of success doing it at Dreamhack this past weekend (was out of town so any tips is appreciated) I assume the opening is standard 12/12 reaper into reactor factory, just wondering what the plan is after that, do I get a starport or go for the armory straight away? I'm only in diamond so nothing too fancy please The "exact timing" is different every time, depending on the kind of push you are executing. IIRC Taeja gets his armory earlier than I would, because his push hits ~8 minutes. Think of it this way: when do you want your push to hit? Make your armory 65 seconds before your push is supposed to hit. IE: If you want your push to hit at 9 minutes, start the armory at 7:55. | ||
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B-rye88
Canada168 Posts
Build bunkers and turrets at the main ramp. Attempt to deflect the gateway attack here; having SCV's on auto-repair nearby is important. Do not attempt to hold at the natural, just lift your CC. If you can, keep a marine or scv near your opponents third/natural; if your opponent is expanding, he will not be going all-in. Keep teching up and look to move your CC back down soon. Having a turret in your mineral line and at your production will help to prevent the oracles from picking off marines or scvs. As an aside, keeping your production closer to your CC is very good in TvP I find. | ||
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On June 18 2014 00:04 geokilla wrote: How do you defend against double Oracles into 3/4 Gate all in with a MSC? It just absolutely wrecks Terran it seems. The Oracles thin out the Marines so there's little to no reason in building additional Bunkers when you have no units to put them in. I'm just Platinum so take this with a grain of salt: Against Protoss I usually open Widow Mine expand into 1/1/1 (not allin, just the production), that did hold Oracles into Voidray +3Gate whatever allin, pretty well up to now. 10 - Depot 12 - Rax (SCV scout when finished) 13 - Gas 15 - OC @100% Rax - OC + constant Marines 16 - Depot @100 Gas - Factory Depot @100% Factory - WM + TL on Rax @400 Minerals - CC @100% WM (into mineral line) - swap Factory to TL and constant Tanks + another TL on Rax for Marauders and ConcShells 2nd Gas Depots as needed if Protoss opened with Stargate, asap Starport -> Vikings Why? - The 1st WM is in time for any Oracle (even proxy). Then Tanks and Marauders with ConcShells together are pretty nice against any Stalker based stuff (e.g. 4gate blink). If the Protoss opened with a Stargate, he usually doesn't leave it idle, so a Stargate pumping some Vikings shouldn't be too bad. Variation: Instead of the first TL on the Rax you could get a Reactor, swap it to the Factory and get double WMs instead of Tanks. This could then easily be turned into a WM drop (get Starport and produce Medivac). Transition: As it's 1/1/1, you can easily follow up with Bio or Mech however you like. Downsides: The build doesn't get a Reaper on purpose, because it would delay the 1st WM too much. So you have to rely on SCV scouting. Although it's meant to be good against all common Protoss openings (again, I'm just low league), there may be some weaknesses against uncommon builds. I could imagine it doing not so well against some proxy Robo Immortal build for example. GL HF  | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
On June 18 2014 01:42 GRiXiS wrote: The "exact timing" is different every time, depending on the kind of push you are executing. IIRC Taeja gets his armory earlier than I would, because his push hits ~8 minutes. Think of it this way: when do you want your push to hit? Make your armory 65 seconds before your push is supposed to hit. IE: If you want your push to hit at 9 minutes, start the armory at 7:55. Okay thanks, i'll see if I can find a vod from DH to see what he does. <3 | ||
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