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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On March 20 2013 14:14 bvb wrote:
How on earth do I go about stopping mass doom drops in TvT? Ever since MLG every single terran player is doing them. Even when i gain a massive advantage, I'm often unlucky to move out just as 6-8 dropships come in. Mass turrets are expensive and don't do too much as long as the opponent is smart enough to scan my base beforehand.
if you are ahead just build a ton of turrets and 1-3Sensortowers. Most terrans arent dropping anyway id they see a sensortower.
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I know that most players open widow mines in TvZ, is the Hellion/Banshee opening outdated or is it still viable?
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On March 20 2013 18:49 Kvassten wrote:
I know that most players open widow mines in TvZ, is the Hellion/Banshee opening outdated or is it still viable?
Demuslim starts a lot of games of with reaperexpand into hellions (minimum 2 or more), mines after and double upgrades for bio
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On March 20 2013 18:49 Kvassten wrote:
I know that most players open widow mines in TvZ, is the Hellion/Banshee opening outdated or is it still viable?
I think its still viable but it isnt that effective anymore since most zergs are used to defend vs Hellion/Banshee. And additionally mines are more fun.
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United Kingdom12025 Posts
On March 20 2013 14:14 bvb wrote:
How on earth do I go about stopping mass doom drops in TvT? Ever since MLG every single terran player is doing them. Even when i gain a massive advantage, I'm often unlucky to move out just as 6-8 dropships come in. Mass turrets are expensive and don't do too much as long as the opponent is smart enough to scan my base beforehand.
So far (as mech) I've found it's good to have staggered turrets with a few mines mixed in between and vikings out infront of them if there's dead space stops, or atleast minimises damage from doom drops pretty well. I also use my building positioning to mean that he can only dropas he gets closer the direct center of my base and not on the edges like he'd probably like. The general response to turrets is to start dumping your drop out as soon as possible, but with good depot positioning you can make it so they can't drop their load until the last possible seconds giving your hellions/vikings time to come back and clean up. It might also be worthwhile leaving a tank or two back at your main just incase.
Definately make sure to not block your ramp or make it harder for your hellions to get back into your base as that can cause a lot of issues later on in getting your hellions (or if your drop defense fails) tanks up the ramp.
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Question about TvZ. I'm a masters player, and I was wondering is there a specific composition for late game TvZ that best deals with Ultra Viper Bane? I've just been going a Rauder Rine mixture with tanks and medivacs, and I've found out that obviously won't cut it against cloud. I've been thinking of sprinkling vikings in to deal with vipers, but most of the time the zerg will cast at least a few clouds anyways, and if I attempt to kill vipers before a fight they'll just retreat. Right now the solution to me seems to be micro better, be more strategic with how you engage zerg, etc, which I'm completely ok with. But I'm wondering, since it's been a while since I've played, is there a universal agreed composition that best deals with it?
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Can you tell me please how many barracks/factories/starports one fully saturated base can sustain?
After switching from Zerg to Terran my unspent ressources skyrocket, as now there is more than one building that trains units.
Thank you in advance!
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On March 20 2013 21:43 Dreamer.T wrote:
Question about TvZ. I'm a masters player, and I was wondering is there a specific composition for late game TvZ that best deals with Ultra Viper Bane? I've just been going a Rauder Rine mixture with tanks and medivacs, and I've found out that obviously won't cut it against cloud. I've been thinking of sprinkling vikings in to deal with vipers, but most of the time the zerg will cast at least a few clouds anyways, and if I attempt to kill vipers before a fight they'll just retreat. Right now the solution to me seems to be micro better, be more strategic with how you engage zerg, etc, which I'm completely ok with. But I'm wondering, since it's been a while since I've played, is there a universal agreed composition that best deals with it?
Hi, high masters T:
I like to transition into ravens in the late-game, and I continue to use widow mines which can be effective in large numbers.
Ultimately I think compositions like this are good because it gives you several different ways of dealing large aoe damage and punishing your opponent for over-committing, and each one requires a different reaction/micro from him.
As long as you can control all parts of your army it works pretty well.
I haven't really tried tanks vs ultras, but I don't think they're the best vs ultra ling. And obviously they're hard countered by broods and vipers.
Another good option is combining tanks/mines and adding ravens as well.
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On March 20 2013 16:57 Bazy wrote:I wanted to ask about TvZ reaper/hellion build that Flash played in many games during the last MLG (e.g http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/videos/100008-flash-vs-ret-game-3-round-of-16-mlg-dallas-2013)1. This build is weak against fast speedlings and roaches, what do I do, when I see fast speed or roaches? (want to transition into bio/mine) 2. What are the timings for Zerg gases to consider his build as fast speedling build or fast roaches? 3. Bonus question - do you consider Ghosts to be a good counter for Vipers? They should 3shot them using Snipe, is it an investment that can be worth trying? Thank you for your answers (sorry for my weak english)
1) You should be on the aggressive with this build, so if you spot early speed or roach, you should have plenty of time to lift your natural into your main, rescue scv's, and get 1-2 tanks out after a factory switch to a techlab. 1-2 tanks and a few hellions hold your ramp easily against both roach and speedlings.
2) this is a hard one for me to answer. since MLG more and more Z's that I play against are getting speed quickly, like 14/14 pool gas then expand type build. This allows them to start speed right around the time their expo finishes. A good rule of thumb for roach though, is if you see him take 2 gas, or if he's mined over 100 gas, is not getting speed, and hasn't pulled drones out might wanna think about getting a tank or two out just to be safe. This is especially easy now that siege isn't required.
3). Yesterday on Inside The Game, Idra talked about how he was really looking forward to watching Innovation's TvZ because he goes marine/marauder/widowmine/ghost (never got to see it though because he just ripped leenock apart). The ghost is such a strong unit vs most of what Z has, and against the viper especially. I think if you have decent control with ghost, it wouldn't be a bad thing.
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Hey guys,
Just venturing back to SC2 as I recently picked up HotS. I was just an average gold player when I last played and pretty much made it there running MMM as Terran. I was wondering if anyone could provide me with one or two simple, "all around" strats in HotS that I could play with? I prefer micro based builds (loved reaper rush in early WOL) as my macro skills start sucking after about 15min.. Maybe something with early pressure that can transition into a strong midgame? Like fast expand reapers? I'm pretty nooby at this game so any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance for your help!
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On March 21 2013 02:11 Mondeezy wrote:
Hey guys,
Just venturing back to SC2 as I recently picked up HotS. I was just an average gold player when I last played and pretty much made it there running MMM as Terran. I was wondering if anyone could provide me with one or two simple, "all around" strats in HotS that I could play with? I prefer micro based builds (loved reaper rush in early WOL) as my macro skills start sucking after about 15min.. Maybe something with early pressure that can transition into a strong midgame? Like fast expand reapers? I'm pretty nooby at this game so any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Asha's post is pretty good! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402751¤tpage=10#188
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On March 21 2013 02:11 Mondeezy wrote:
Hey guys,
Just venturing back to SC2 as I recently picked up HotS. I was just an average gold player when I last played and pretty much made it there running MMM as Terran. I was wondering if anyone could provide me with one or two simple, "all around" strats in HotS that I could play with? I prefer micro based builds (loved reaper rush in early WOL) as my macro skills start sucking after about 15min.. Maybe something with early pressure that can transition into a strong midgame? Like fast expand reapers? I'm pretty nooby at this game so any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Asha's MLG Breakdown
A Few Guides
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Sup guys, I was a zerg in WoL, and decided for hots to switch to the glorious terran race. Mostly because I was one of the few zergs that liked to play without winlord infestor. What's the general rundown of what to do in each matchup? Is the standard still 1 rax fe or can we do stuff like reaper expand? Hellbat/mine/tank viable in tvz?
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On March 21 2013 02:53 Thienan567 wrote:
Sup guys, I was a zerg in WoL, and decided for hots to switch to the glorious terran race. Mostly because I was one of the few zergs that liked to play without winlord infestor. What's the general rundown of what to do in each matchup? Is the standard still 1 rax fe or can we do stuff like reaper expand? Hellbat/mine/tank viable in tvz?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251694
Detailed explanations from TheDwf
TvP - Bio play is the standard, but also the one matchup style everyone other than korean terrans have problems with - Treat it as a standard macro game where you do NOT want to suicide units and never overcommit unless you are sure you can win. Ive lost games where I sniped two nexus on a three base game, and still lost because I overcommitted on the second snipe and lost the majority of my army.
Late game micro is what kills most people, even though they understand what to do, when to scan, how to defend, when to backoff, how to do proper drops, and what composition to go. Triple aoe, especially storms, are not something easy to micro against, and if you failed somewhere from your early-mid game, you will have a hard time choosing your battle, and playing how the protoss wants to play is generally a loss. Although people will constantly yell at you to get ghosts as you start running into heavy storm+archon problems, ghosts are not cheap, going for 200 a pop (2 marauders or 4 marines), and usually cannot be gotten es-mass that easily just off on 3-4 bases.
Mech play is still being experimented upon. Early on against easier opponents you might just keep pulling in wins as they dont really know how to fight tanks, but against better opponents, your map awareness and understanding of the matchup works tremendously into mechanical, as timing and positioning becomes much, much more important after the initial early game opener risks. However, this is from a WoL point of view, and HotS has changed a lot
TvZ - Bio play is the standard now. Compared to TvP, bio play in TvZ is much more forgiving, as you can just as easily double expand early on, and fast upgrades shine well against melee units. You can do tons of damage just from one single drop ship instead of just a couple pylon snipes, and losing pockets of units isnt that big of a deal (compared to TvP)
Compared to microing against three aoe units at once, infestors and banelings are easily to deal with, and constant aggression with minimal defense is the way to go if you can handle it.
Firebats - useful, but eats into upgrades, and is rather expensive for a immobile unit. Great aoe+damage taker if you are going for a ball rush later on. Also amazing for defense
Tanks - need an early defense against roach bane or need that extra oomph for heavy damage+control? get some tanks, but dont over-rely on them as vipers can shut them down hard.
Widowmines - great space controller, scary as hell to fight against from the opponents point of view, but should NOT be over-relied upon. If you like setting up traps and such around the map, its amazing. Keep note you can target fire with them
Thors - grab one or two if you are dealing with heavy muta play and didnt punish zergs greediness early enough and have to also deal with heavy ling banelings.
Ravens - seeker missiles recieved a nice buff, havent messed around with them enough to say much though.
Mech play - not my expertise, never liked playing mech against zerg - felt too immobile and reactionary. However, you can experiment around with the new firebat+thor with mines and late game ravens.
TvT - combine everything from tvz and tvp, add in all the amount of harrassments, and thats TvT. Not a match up you can just explain off on one paragraph that easily, much better to be played and messed around directly. Too many openers and timings. Obviously, korean terrans favor heavy marine openers if not opening gas early on, but now on HotS theres just so many more openers its hard to write them all in.
Basic matchup-wise however, marine into bio against mech now only holds for so long before you need tanks to deal with the new firebats - they soak damage from marauders like no other, and marines dont hold well directly against firebat+tank fire. Mech is stronger now in HotS, but doom drops are even more scarier now. Most of the time the game will be decided by early harrassments however.
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How do you defend against 3gate/stargate with oracles if you are planning to go mech?
I have 2 barracks and 1 factory, I rally my marines and widow mines to the mineral field in order to prevent the oracles from killing my workers. But then they just bust my wall with their entire army and I lose.
Other games I have tried to keep my entire army behind the wall to main main with a bunker which can hold the frontal attack but if the oracles attack the workers instead I lose too many SCV.
Is there any solution to this so that youcan defend both your mineral line and the wall to your main against 3gate/oracle. If so please describe in detail.
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On March 21 2013 04:39 MockHamill wrote:
How do you defend against 3gate/stargate with oracles if you are planning to go mech?
I have 2 barracks and 1 factory, I rally my marines and widow mines to the mineral field in order to prevent the oracles from killing my workers. But then they just bust my wall with their entire army and I lose.
Other games I have tried to keep my entire army behind the wall to main main with a bunker which can hold the frontal attack but if the oracles attack the workers instead I lose too many SCV.
Is there any solution to this so that youcan defend both your mineral line and the wall to your main against 3gate/oracle. If so please describe in detail.
This is very possibly an ignorant reply, but is it possible that you don't actually have to wall in for TvP? I seem to recall having seen pros not doing this occasionally.
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You're right. You do not need to wall in vs protoss and many pros do not do so with the new stargate openings being at large again. If you do wall however, there are a few things you can do.
You're asking "How do you defend against 3gate/stargate with oracles if you are planning to go mech?"
Keep in mind that since the Protoss is essentially going all in, you might have to resort to simply not establishing your mech. Upon scouting the stargate, I usually thrown down my engi bay to prepare for oracles. Generally when the 1st oracle comes, you won't have your turret up yet but you should be able to deflect it with marines to give time for a turret. Once that turrent is there, you can essentially leave your troops near the wall to defend and it should then be an easy hold. 1-2 well placed widow mines can work wonders as well since it can force oracle energy to be used as detection instead off attacking.
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What is the best way to transition out of 8/8/8?
More raxes at home or what is most effective?
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This might not yet have an answer, but I'd like to hear some informed opinions:
Siege tanks seem to have all but disappeared from the bio-based TvZs I have seen, with everyone opting for bio/mine instead. With both units filling largely the same role, why is this?
Is it just because mines are new and impressive? Can we expect tanks to re-emerge?
Will we eventually see both used situationally?
Are mines just flat out better? I personally am not sure their abilities to hit air and to burrow outweigh their unpredictability and difficulty to target-fire with.
*Talking mid-late game here, I can see mines' usefulness in transitioning from opener -> midgame.
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
Hey, I am wondering what to do past the mid game TvZ, I feel Bio/Mine, while being very nice early and mid vs ling/bling/muta, tails off towards hive tech, such as more ultra based stuff, is there a decent transition out of it? I am not sure whether to swap and make Tanks and go more marauder heavy, lest I get tech switched
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