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Hello TL!
I'm zeezPecan, a Diamond Zerg/Platinum Random player on the NA server. Although I play macro style when I play Zerg, I basically just cheese and all-in every game as Terran and Protoss. One build that I've been working on lately is the Thor Rush as Terran. Everyone probably knows the basic idea: build a Thor quickly, go kill your opponent. However, from my searches around the web, I've found that there's hardly any consensus as to what the best way to go about Thor rushing is.
Hence, this post!
I've found Thor Rushing to be rather fun, and have whipped up a build order after doing it on ladder ~20 times in a row. I suspect that it's best versus Protoss and Terran, as zerglings tend to overrun even the best micro'd Thor rush.
Here it is, warts and all:
9- depot
11-gas
12- rax
13- send proxy/scout scv
15- OC
15 - fact, proxied
pump marines/scvs
~17 - rax
4:25 armory
6:10 Thor started
7:20 Thor, 9 marines, 9 scvs
The Engagement -- The engagement is the most important part of the build, and there are a couple things to keep in mind...
Hotkeys: I like to hotkey each group separately (1 for Thor 2 for SCVs 3 for marines) but it's personal preference.
Using the Thor: The Thor should be used to tank. It has an absurd health pool, especially with repairing SCVs. If your opponent targets it with melee units (i.e. workers, lings) then spamming hold position on your own surrounding workers can zone them out, forcing them to individually click the workers, or hold position themselves. The Thor should also go in first versus static defense to clear out bunkers, spines etc.
Using the SCVs: The SCVs should always be on hand to get a full surround on thier repair, otherwise the Thor will die and everything will be sad. Also, as mentioned before, hold positioning is very important. They are also good for seeing up ramps -- send one up, hold position after the opponnent a-clicks, and it may live long enough for you to kill whatever's up there. One fun trick is hold positioning SCVs in a choke (i.e. a ramp or between a mineral line) and watching as everything walks impotently at them.
Using the marines: The marines actually provide the really significant DPS. The key is to keep them behind the SCVs and Thor, letting them shoot without taking damage. Pretty straightforward. Use chokes (i.e. the mineral line, notches near the ramps) to your advantage!
Transition -- Obviously, this doesn't often happen given the goal is to kill your opponent, but sometimes things work out so that you aren't far enough behind to just leave, but the game isn't over. In those situations I do one of the following:
A)Expo, transfer SCVs and transition to a macro game
B) build a couple more Thors, pump marines and go all-in
There are a couple variations on the build that I've considered:
1) 1 Rax only (which actually hits about as hard but perhaps has less transition potential)
2) Double reactored rax (which delays the Thor but hits harder with marines, tentatively a better build versus zerg)
3) Double Thor, hits later and harder, good if the opponent is still powering their economy.
But, ultimately, I have no idea what the best way to Thor Rush is! I don't even know if it's at all viable at an even reasonably high level, but I'd love to know what everyone thinks, and get some help making it better.
e: Mods, I didn't think this was developed enough to be a guide, nor do I think I have the qualifications to make one, so I posted it as [D]. If it should be [G], I'm sorry about that :-)
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1. When i thor-rush i like to do it as a 1-1-1 variant. with a medivac to pick up the thor if needed - this also allows the production to be done in your own base, since the medivac can transport the thor pretty fast.
2. I prefer to not cut scvs like you do in your variant, it makes it (even more) allin .
you can reach the aproximate same goals with 10 depot 12 rax 13 gas aswell
EDIT: replays would be nice aswell to judge the build in practise
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As Chr15t said it can be stronger with medi to drop. I fucked about with this build for a very short while. Proxy both Fact and Starport to a decent spot not too far away from opponents main, once Thor starts box scvs and whatever marines have to proxied area, lift Thor into main (if I remember correctly was about 7:30 mark to hit main) then collect scvs and drop and have them repair thor, next can get the marines.
It all has to be done swiftly to make work and will auto lose to a fair few builds, but if controlled reasonable can be a pain in the ass if opponent goes for a standard 1 rax cc. Never took the build too serious but its a fun build that can kinda work, although its cheesey as hell and like all proxy builds you are just hoping your opponent does not scout it in time.
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On November 05 2012 03:40 foutre wrote:
One build that I've been working on lately is the Thor Rush as Terran
In platinum... Its really not about gimmicks, its about better play. Especially at lower levels, otherwise (imo), you will be stuck at that level forever doing weird all ins. Unless that makes you happy, then go for it.
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This looks really cool, and I haven't seen it before! Thanks a lot. Also, thanks for all feedback, I'll look into it.
On November 05 2012 05:07 honkeybeef wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 03:40 foutre wrote:
One build that I've been working on lately is the Thor Rush as Terran
In platinum... Its really not about gimmicks, its about better play. Especially at lower levels, otherwise (imo), you will be stuck at that level forever doing weird all ins. Unless that makes you happy, then go for it.
Yeah, I only play Protoss/Terran for the cheese -- Zerg is the race I'm genuinely trying to improve with.
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I've been trying the Thor rush recently for lulz and giggles, and surprisingly found it to be effective in TvP and TvT. I do it differently than OP - I get 3 marauders and 3 hellions first and push with that, trying to delay opponents expo and kill some units/workers. I get second gas at 5 minutes, then armory, so my first thor pops out at 7:30 - 8 minutes.
In TvP I had much more success waiting until I have 4-5 thors, and researching strike cannons if opponent goes heavy immortal.
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On November 05 2012 05:07 honkeybeef wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 03:40 foutre wrote:
One build that I've been working on lately is the Thor Rush as Terran
In platinum... Its really not about gimmicks, its about better play. Especially at lower levels, otherwise (imo), you will be stuck at that level forever doing weird all ins. Unless that makes you happy, then go for it.
That's what everyone says. I rarely play standard, yet I can take games off high masters and low low GMs consistently with 'weird play' and forceable multitasking attacks.
Everyone has their strength. Some people learn from doing wonky builds, and learning to transition into a more macro style after the attack goes off.
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im actually confused how this works? do you have replays showing this?
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Thors aren't so good against zerg? Check out the 4 Thor build if you haven't already.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352138
I use this build with like a 90% winrate vs zerg, I only lose if I macro poorly and/or misclick and put a hole in my depot wall or any of various other silly mistakes. The DPS of an early-mid game zerg army seems like it's not nearly enough to kill the thors. Even if they focus one down fairly quickly, they will have lost so many roaches that the remaining thors with SCV repairs & rine support simply will not die.
It's not exactly a thor "rush" but it's seemingly unstoppable. Granted I'm only in gold league and thus have gold league opponents, but I feel as though this is so OP that it probably works in higher leagues as well (StimmedProbe claims a similar win:loss in GM). Someone please prove me wrong, if I am.
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EDIT: Double post, I apologize.
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On November 05 2012 09:50 Bahku wrote:Thors aren't so good against zerg? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352138I use this build with like a 90% winrate vs zerg, I only lose if I macro poorly and/or misclick and put a hole in my depot wall or any of various other silly mistakes. It's not exactly a thor "rush" but it's seemingly unstoppable. Granted I'm only in gold league and thus have gold league opponents, but I feel as though this is so OP that it probably works in higher leagues as well (StimmedProbe claims a similar win:loss in GM). Someone please prove me wrong, if I am.
SEA gm.
But yes, it can work. Most mech plays are thor/hellion based until roach mass comes in, and then tanks are needed. So thors are by no means bad against zerg. Silly to say
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stimmedprobe's 4xthor rush is pretty good in tvz, suggest giving that a go.
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I played this 17 times in a row and won only once. I was consistently disgraced!
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I like doing a bigger scv pull, leave one in gas and 3 or 4 on minerals (with mule). you can still build hellions from your fact and get some income to repair. Also make a hellion when waiting for the armory.
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Just do a variation of Hammer's 1/1/1.
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Thanks a lot for the alternate builds, they're pretty cool. I'm sorry for your loss President Dead 
Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting that Thors in general are bad against zerg, just the silly build I've been doing.
Also, thanks leveller for the suggestions, they make a lot of sense. No idea why it didn't occur to me to build stuff at the factory pre-armory.
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EPT
