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[G] ~8% faster gas mining - Page 14

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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leveller
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Sweden1840 Posts
November 04 2012 11:28 GMT
#261
On November 04 2012 18:50 myRZeth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2012 21:16 rafaliusz wrote:
This isn't anything new, I remember reading pretty much same thing 2 years ago. Suprised this thread gets so much attention.



i m pretty sure there wasn t a post about that 2 years ago


There absolutely was. However, that's no reason to be rude to orek for contributing even further on the subject! Thanks orek as always for your thorough OP.
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
November 04 2012 22:29 GMT
#262
Flash just took the far gas on Metropolis... T_T

I love the research you put into this, but I can't believe people still haven't seen this, especially Flash of all people.
Kitai
Profile Joined June 2012
United States873 Posts
November 05 2012 04:12 GMT
#263
I only read the first few pages and not the entirety of the thread, so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned or not.

WC3 had a similar issue in which certain spawn points allowed for quicker gold mining with less workers because of this exact same problem. For example, a great hall that was exactly diagonal to the gold mine was able to be fully saturated with 4 peons instead of the intended 5. This unfair advantage was fixed by patching the worker AI to reduce movement speed when such a situation arose (but it was still exploitable by individually microing the workers back to the gold mine after every trip).

I'm not sure if a similar fix in SC2 is the right way to go or not.
"You know, I don't care if soO got 100 second places in a row. Anyone who doesn't think that he's going to win blizzcon watching this series is a fool" - Artosis, Blizzcon 2014 soO vs TaeJa
ThaGunShow
Profile Joined May 2012
Australia9 Posts
November 06 2012 10:16 GMT
#264
brain explosion
Sonter
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden35 Posts
November 06 2012 11:16 GMT
#265
Don't fix this, little things like this makes this game so much better.
Devilldog
Profile Joined October 2010
United States69 Posts
November 10 2012 19:35 GMT
#266
Wow good job.
I knew that there was some imbalances here and there but never put any time into it. I also never thought that it could be up to an 8% difference. Thanks putting the time into this.
IPS.Blue
Profile Joined January 2004
Germany309 Posts
November 16 2012 08:48 GMT
#267
On November 02 2012 00:30 burbon wrote:
Good post but why fixing it? its cool to have such a little glitches in game.

Not every glitch is worth celebrating. This kind of glith certainly isn't, because it's kind of random.

On October 28 2012 15:41 Orek wrote:
Entombed Valley is so imbalanced in terms of gas mining in that
1. all main bases have one inefficient gas with varying degrees of efficiency.
2. all natural bases have one inefficient gas with varying degrees of efficiency.
3. only two 3rd bases out of four have one inefficient gas.
Therefore, all of 1base vs 1base, 2base vs 2base, 3base vs 3base… have different rates of gas mining between players. That is, 2 players can never be equal even in the fairest PvP where they execute exactly the same build without even a 0.00000001 second timing/positional difference.

How is that cool?

Blizzard should try to fix it at least to some degree, so that map makers have more freedom in designing maps.
Orek
Profile Joined February 2012
1665 Posts
January 14 2013 16:39 GMT
#268
Added images of new maps for 2013 ladder season 1

Akilon Flats
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
+ Show Spoiler +

Top-left spawning location
Main [F,45] and [D,180-225]
Natural [A,90-135] and [A,225-270]
3rd next to natural [F,45] and [D,180-225]
3rd behind rock [A,0-45] and [A,135-180]
Bottom-left high ground [C,135-180] and [F,315]
Bottom-left mid ground [D,0-45] and [F,225]

Bottom-right spawning location
Main [D,0-45] and [F,225]
Natural [A,45-90] and [A,270-315]
3rd/4th next to natural [D,0-45] and [F,225]
3rd/4th behind rock [A,180-225] and [A,315-360]
Top-right high ground [F,135] and [C,315-360]
Top-right mid ground [F,45] and [D,180-225]



Newkirk District
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
+ Show Spoiler +

Left spawning location
Main [C,135-180] and [E,270-315]
Natural [B,90-135] and [B,225-270]
High ground 3rd [B,90-135] and [B,225-270]
Low ground 3rd [C,135-180] and [E,270-315]
Far top [E,90-135] and [C,315-360]
Middle [E,45-90] and [C,180-225]
Rocked [C,135-180] and [E,270-315]

Right spawning location
Main [C,0-45] and [E,225-270]
Natural [B,45-90] and [B,270-315]
High ground 3rd [B,45-90] and [B,270-315]
Low ground 3rd [C,0-45] and [E,225-270]
Far top [E,45-90] and [C,180-225]
Middle [E,90-135] and [C,315-360]
Rocked [C,0-45] and [E,225-270]



Akilon Flats is the most balanced map in the history of SC2 in terms of gas mining. Despite having multiple inefficient gas locations, each player gets equal inefficiency from symmetric placements. Therefore, neither player is favored unlike all the other recent maps. Sadly, it's more of a coincidence than Blizzard's intention because...

Newkirk District, on the other hand, clearly gives an edge to left spawning location. PvP and ZvZ winrate must be something like 50.2% vs 49.8% in favor of left side player.
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-14 18:27:19
January 14 2013 18:27 GMT
#269
God, I always had a feeling gasses were messed up, but 8% is a pretty big deal and it's VERY annoying to know this. I hope they fix this in HOTS somehow or pay more attention when making maps!
jplus
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30 Posts
May 09 2013 18:26 GMT
#270
Very interesting stuff. Is there any chance you can create a guide as to how we can determine which gasses are efficient on each map? Is there something we can look at in the map editor or does everything have to be empirical?

I'd love to be able to do this analysis myself instead of having to wait for you to update each ladder season :D
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2143 Posts
May 09 2013 18:34 GMT
#271
Thanks
une_certaine_verve
Profile Joined May 2012
342 Posts
May 09 2013 19:36 GMT
#272
Very impressive.
haaz
Profile Joined May 2010
157 Posts
May 09 2013 19:37 GMT
#273
Necromancer Lord approves your skills in returning dead threads back to life jplus
You will be powerful Lich soon.
temp banned: 2 warnings: 8, my little achievments 8), last update: 23-05-2013
Orek
Profile Joined February 2012
1665 Posts
May 10 2013 12:01 GMT
#274
On May 10 2013 03:26 jplus wrote:
Very interesting stuff. Is there any chance you can create a guide as to how we can determine which gasses are efficient on each map? Is there something we can look at in the map editor or does everything have to be empirical?

I'd love to be able to do this analysis myself instead of having to wait for you to update each ladder season :D

Because
1. I've been busy these days
2. I don't have HotS,
I'm afraid this thread, or any other threads of mine linked in the OP, won't be updated anytime soon.

These 2 images
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

[image loading]

explain pretty much everything. Anyone can reproduce the same results, unless HotS works differently. Assuming WoL = HotS, all you have to do is to find out which one of 48 locations a particular vespene gayser is at, using the naming rule I defined in the OP. Then, check it for every single vespene gayser on a map / all ladder maps, which might take several hours. I'm available in PM, too.
FreeTossCZComentary
Profile Joined September 2011
Czech Republic143 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-10 12:23:22
May 10 2013 12:22 GMT
#275
Wow, just wow... 8%. Yeah, blizzard, I guess, for first time in history, you have to do some work on SC2, not just copy paste units from diferent games...

PS: Sorry for sarcasm, but you should know this Blizz. I bought HoTS and I am not satisfied. Not like you will read it anyways.
www.youtube.com/OnlyFreeToss, FreeCraft ForFun SC2 MOD Rulez: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=292319 Dont even dare waiting, join FreeCraft now!
MidgetHumper
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom280 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-10 13:39:46
May 10 2013 13:39 GMT
#276
On May 10 2013 21:22 FreeTossCZComentary wrote:
Wow, just wow... 8%. Yeah, blizzard, I guess, for first time in history, you have to do some work on SC2, not just copy paste units from diferent games...

PS: Sorry for sarcasm, but you should know this Blizz. I bought HoTS and I am not satisfied. Not like you will read it anyways.


Blizzard, this man is not satisfied.. What do you plan to do about this atrocity? This is simply not good enough!

/sarcasm


Edit: Nice thread, 8% can be make a big difference to the early game. I will have to look into this some more!
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284255#1
Garmer
Profile Joined October 2010
1286 Posts
May 10 2013 13:57 GMT
#277
it would be cool to mine gas with vga
if you know what i mean

nice trick anyway
Deign85
Profile Joined August 2010
United States13 Posts
May 12 2013 15:16 GMT
#278
On November 06 2012 20:16 Sonter wrote:
Don't fix this, little things like this makes this game so much better.

I don't understand this statement even remotely. How does this make the game "so much" better?
CrystalDrag
Profile Joined July 2010
173 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-12 15:59:46
May 12 2013 15:53 GMT
#279
This isn't even a trick.. Just simple Pythagorean triangle, and diagonal distances takes longer to mine from...
Welcome to the crazy research on gas mining

I can show you crazy gas mining research as well... for brood war. Which took over a month.
Cokefreak
Profile Joined June 2011
Finland8095 Posts
May 12 2013 19:22 GMT
#280
On May 13 2013 00:53 CrystalDrag wrote:
This isn't even a trick.. Just simple Pythagorean triangle, and diagonal distances takes longer to mine from...
Show nested quote +
Welcome to the crazy research on gas mining

I can show you crazy gas mining research as well... for brood war. Which took over a month.

So how about you get back to that instead of bashing legitimate thread OPs.
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