Flash just took the far gas on Metropolis... T_T

I love the research you put into this, but I can't believe people still haven't seen this, especially Flash of all people.

Kitai

United States873 Posts

November 05 2012 04:12 GMT

#263

I only read the first few pages and not the entirety of the thread, so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned or not.

WC3 had a similar issue in which certain spawn points allowed for quicker gold mining with less workers because of this exact same problem. For example, a great hall that was exactly diagonal to the gold mine was able to be fully saturated with 4 peons instead of the intended 5. This unfair advantage was fixed by patching the worker AI to reduce movement speed when such a situation arose (but it was still exploitable by individually microing the workers back to the gold mine after every trip).

I'm not sure if a similar fix in SC2 is the right way to go or not.

ThaGunShow

Australia9 Posts

November 06 2012 10:16 GMT

#264

brain explosion

Sonter

Sweden35 Posts

November 06 2012 11:16 GMT

#265

Don't fix this, little things like this makes this game so much better.

Devilldog

United States69 Posts

November 10 2012 19:35 GMT

#266

Wow good job.
I knew that there was some imbalances here and there but never put any time into it. I also never thought that it could be up to an 8% difference. Thanks putting the time into this.

IPS.Blue

Germany309 Posts

November 16 2012 08:48 GMT

#267

On November 02 2012 00:30 burbon wrote:
Good post but why fixing it? its cool to have such a little glitches in game.

Not every glitch is worth celebrating. This kind of glith certainly isn't, because it's kind of random.

On October 28 2012 15:41 Orek wrote:
Entombed Valley is so imbalanced in terms of gas mining in that
1. all main bases have one inefficient gas with varying degrees of efficiency.
2. all natural bases have one inefficient gas with varying degrees of efficiency.
3. only two 3rd bases out of four have one inefficient gas.
Therefore, all of 1base vs 1base, 2base vs 2base, 3base vs 3base… have different rates of gas mining between players. That is, 2 players can never be equal even in the fairest PvP where they execute exactly the same build without even a 0.00000001 second timing/positional difference.

How is that cool?

Blizzard should try to fix it at least to some degree, so that map makers have more freedom in designing maps.

Orek

1665 Posts

January 14 2013 16:39 GMT

#268

Added images of new maps for 2013 ladder season 1

Akilon Flats
+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

Top-left spawning location
Main [F,45] and [D,180-225]
Natural [A,90-135] and [A,225-270]
3rd next to natural [F,45] and [D,180-225]
3rd behind rock [A,0-45] and [A,135-180]
Bottom-left high ground [C,135-180] and [F,315]
Bottom-left mid ground [D,0-45] and [F,225]

Bottom-right spawning location
Main [D,0-45] and [F,225]
Natural [A,45-90] and [A,270-315]
3rd/4th next to natural [D,0-45] and [F,225]
3rd/4th behind rock [A,180-225] and [A,315-360]
Top-right high ground [F,135] and [C,315-360]
Top-right mid ground [F,45] and [D,180-225]

Newkirk District
+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

Left spawning location
Main [C,135-180] and [E,270-315]
Natural [B,90-135] and [B,225-270]
High ground 3rd [B,90-135] and [B,225-270]
Low ground 3rd [C,135-180] and [E,270-315]
Far top [E,90-135] and [C,315-360]
Middle [E,45-90] and [C,180-225]
Rocked [C,135-180] and [E,270-315]

Right spawning location
Main [C,0-45] and [E,225-270]
Natural [B,45-90] and [B,270-315]
High ground 3rd [B,45-90] and [B,270-315]
Low ground 3rd [C,0-45] and [E,225-270]
Far top [E,45-90] and [C,180-225]
Middle [E,90-135] and [C,315-360]
Rocked [C,0-45] and [E,225-270]

Akilon Flats is the most balanced map in the history of SC2 in terms of gas mining. Despite having multiple inefficient gas locations, each player gets equal inefficiency from symmetric placements. Therefore, neither player is favored unlike all the other recent maps. Sadly, it's more of a coincidence than Blizzard's intention because...

Newkirk District, on the other hand, clearly gives an edge to left spawning location. PvP and ZvZ winrate must be something like 50.2% vs 49.8% in favor of left side player.

Complete

United States1864 Posts

January 14 2013 18:27 GMT

#269

God, I always had a feeling gasses were messed up, but 8% is a pretty big deal and it's VERY annoying to know this. I hope they fix this in HOTS somehow or pay more attention when making maps!

jplus

United States30 Posts

May 09 2013 18:26 GMT

#270

Very interesting stuff. Is there any chance you can create a guide as to how we can determine which gasses are efficient on each map? Is there something we can look at in the map editor or does everything have to be empirical?

I'd love to be able to do this analysis myself instead of having to wait for you to update each ladder season :D

llIH

Norway2143 Posts

May 09 2013 18:34 GMT

#271

Thanks

une_certaine_verve

342 Posts

May 09 2013 19:36 GMT

#272

Very impressive.

haaz

157 Posts

May 09 2013 19:37 GMT

#273

Necromancer Lord approves your skills in returning dead threads back to life jplus
You will be powerful Lich soon.

Orek

1665 Posts

May 10 2013 12:01 GMT

#274

On May 10 2013 03:26 jplus wrote:
Very interesting stuff. Is there any chance you can create a guide as to how we can determine which gasses are efficient on each map? Is there something we can look at in the map editor or does everything have to be empirical?

I'd love to be able to do this analysis myself instead of having to wait for you to update each ladder season :D

Because
1. I've been busy these days
2. I don't have HotS,
I'm afraid this thread, or any other threads of mine linked in the OP, won't be updated anytime soon.

These 2 images
+ Show Spoiler +

explain pretty much everything. Anyone can reproduce the same results, unless HotS works differently. Assuming WoL = HotS, all you have to do is to find out which one of 48 locations a particular vespene gayser is at, using the naming rule I defined in the OP. Then, check it for every single vespene gayser on a map / all ladder maps, which might take several hours. I'm available in PM, too.

FreeTossCZComentary

Czech Republic143 Posts

May 10 2013 12:22 GMT

#275

Wow, just wow... 8%. Yeah, blizzard, I guess, for first time in history, you have to do some work on SC2, not just copy paste units from diferent games...

PS: Sorry for sarcasm, but you should know this Blizz. I bought HoTS and I am not satisfied. Not like you will read it anyways.

MidgetHumper

United Kingdom280 Posts

May 10 2013 13:39 GMT

#276

On May 10 2013 21:22 FreeTossCZComentary wrote:
Wow, just wow... 8%. Yeah, blizzard, I guess, for first time in history, you have to do some work on SC2, not just copy paste units from diferent games...

PS: Sorry for sarcasm, but you should know this Blizz. I bought HoTS and I am not satisfied. Not like you will read it anyways.

Blizzard, this man is not satisfied.. What do you plan to do about this atrocity? This is simply not good enough!

/sarcasm

Edit: Nice thread, 8% can be make a big difference to the early game. I will have to look into this some more!

Garmer

1286 Posts

May 10 2013 13:57 GMT

#277

it would be cool to mine gas with vga
if you know what i mean

nice trick anyway

Deign85

United States13 Posts

May 12 2013 15:16 GMT

#278

On November 06 2012 20:16 Sonter wrote:
Don't fix this, little things like this makes this game so much better.

I don't understand this statement even remotely. How does this make the game "so much" better?

CrystalDrag

173 Posts

May 12 2013 15:53 GMT

#279

This isn't even a trick.. Just simple Pythagorean triangle, and diagonal distances takes longer to mine from...

Welcome to the crazy research on gas mining

I can show you crazy gas mining research as well... for brood war. Which took over a month.

Cokefreak

Finland8095 Posts

May 12 2013 19:22 GMT

#280

On May 13 2013 00:53 CrystalDrag wrote:
This isn't even a trick.. Just simple Pythagorean triangle, and diagonal distances takes longer to mine from...

Show nested quote +

I can show you crazy gas mining research as well... for brood war. Which took over a month.

So how about you get back to that instead of bashing legitimate thread OPs.