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ZERG WALLS
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NaO4X.png) DENIED.
A guide to Zerg walls. More coming soon!
For those who do not know, a Zerg wall that does not require any units standing guard can be created. It can be made with 2 Evolution Chambers and a Spine/ Spore Crawler.
Wings of Liberty
+ Show Spoiler +Complete Zerg Walls:Version 1. This is the most efficient wall. All Zerg units can fit through. + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PtC4i.png) For ALL Zerg units to pass through, the minimum requirement is for the 2 Evolution Chambers to be 1 grid square apart diagonally, with a Spine crawler fitted snugly in the middle. Version 2: The 'OH SHIT I'M GONNA DIE' version. It is as compact as it can get without a total wall-off. Only zergling-sized units can fit if it is opened. + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vfVjU.png) The 2 Evolution Chambers are placed corner-to-corner with a Spine crawler in the centre once again. Version 3: The macro version. All Zerg units can fit through. + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TCQgl.png) Both Hacheries have the corner of their building grids touching each other, with a Spine crawler fitted in between. Might come in handy in the lategame. Walls Version 1-3 are ABSOLUTELY zergling-tight when closed, costs no supply and no ground unit can bypass the wall without attacking into it. The Spine Crawler acts as a pseudo-depot and can be unburrowed to make way for your own units. For those worrying what this wall-in will do to the Zerg lategame, I assure you that ultras can fit through the first version of the wall-in when it is opened. This wall plus a few ranged attackers at the back can be used to deflect zergling floods, hellion openings and zealot rushes effectively whilst researching on tech. To build it, just place a Spine crawler in between 2 Evolution Chambers (Make sure the side of the Spine crawler and Evolution Chamber are touching) . The second version of the wall limits the amount of melee units attacking the Spine to 1 Making it good for holding off ling pushes, but units bigger than zerglings, such as roaches and queens, are unable to fit through when opened  Using walls Version 1-3 as a reference, I have constructed a wall at the ramp. + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gqRy0.png) Looks different from the walls I mentioned earlier but still works. However, ultralisks are unable to fit through. Note: The Spine crawlers cannot be placed next to a cliff, or it will allow small units like zerglings to pass through. The placement of the Evolution Chambers and Spine crawlers depend on the map you are playing. HOW IT WORKSZerg wall-in mechanics+ Show Spoiler +Spine crawlers have this weird hitbox that prevents it from being used as mobile siege walls. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lezM8.png) As you can see, the actual hitboxes of buildings are octagonal, not square as it may appear in the building grid. When Spine crawlers are put next to each other, even though it may look like a complete wall-in, the weird hitbox allows many units to pass through, including but not limited to, roaches, queens, stalkers, hellions etc. However, when the Spine crawler is put next to an Evolution chamber, the gap between the two is so negligible that no unit, not even the slippery zergling, will be able to breach the defences. The Hatchery's hitbox is just a scale-up of and Evolution Chamber's. The empty spaces in the corners of the building grid are also larger, so you would have to make necessary adjustments to the placement of the Spine crawler if attempting to use a hatchery for a wall. + Show Spoiler +Credit to Orek for the image ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MoOBl.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/amytG.png) The arrows also represent the number of zerglings that can attack the Spine crawler at a time. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JGFyY.png) Zerglings can leak throught these walls. Legend: + Show Spoiler +Other walls:Version 4: The Hellion Filter. The Spine crawler allows the zerglings and workers to pass through, but not those fat hellions. + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Rm7uI.jpg) Lets your workers/zerglings run past the wall when closed, but not units like queens, roaches, hellions etc. I need to research more on this. + Show Spoiler +Credit to nick00bot for the Hellion filter picture and Magwado for mentioning it to me. These walls are made particularly to keep hellions outside your base and away from your drones, where your queens can outrange them. Hellion filters will also work in this matchup, although marines can run through the wall. A few Spores can also help in the wall to keep cloaked banshee play from ruining your wall. This wall can easily hold off a 2-gate zealot rush and, in theory, the wall and some queens and spines can be used to hold off a 4-gating Protoss long enough for roaches to appear on the scene. In the mid-lategame, infestors can be used to chain-fungal the Protoss when they try to push up the ramp, while sniping important units like Collosus with corruptors. This matchup is where walls really shines. Any early pressure from your opponent (not sure about a roach rush) will be completely and utterly denied if your wall is not denied, while you continue to macro up and get a substantial drone lead if your opponent over-extends on units. Also prevents zergling run-bys in any stage of the game, especially in the lategame, where an infestor/corruptor/broodlord army would be too slow to get back to defend.
HotS BALANCE PATCH #7
+ Show Spoiler +Zerg
Spine Crawler
This unit now completely blocks pathing when placed next to other structures, including other Spine Crawlers.
Zerglings and other small units can no longer squeeze in between Spine Crawlers.
The scale of this unit has been increased from 0.85 to 0.95. Poll: Do you like the new Spine crawler update?Its so good! No more runbys! (23) 58% Blizzard is trying to make mech viable, and they add this to stop hellions? I hate it. (9) 23% Mixed feelings. (8) 20% 40 total votes Your vote: Do you like the new Spine crawler update? (Vote): Its so good! No more runbys!
(Vote): Mixed feelings.
(Vote): Blizzard is trying to make mech viable, and they add this to stop hellions? I hate it.
Please state your honest opinion. Spine crawlers have their hitboxes increased, and now zerglings cannot fit through 2 Spine crawlers when placed side-by-side. I will do further testing on the implications of walling after my research is complete. Since Spine crawlers have a larger hitbox, Spine crawlers should be positioned carefully in the mineral line if the player wishes to do so. Side effects for poor Spine crawler placement in the mineral line is including but not limited to: Lower income, blocked pathing and wasted minerals in the Spine crawler.
"Why would I use a Spore to wall? It doesn't attack the units I'm trying to wall-off from."
The simple fact is, that Spore crawlers have +100 more health than Spine crawlers AKA same health as supply depots, only 25 minerals cheaper! Coupled with a few Spine crawlers in the back, it can shoot both air and ground with detection. In the mid-late game, it will prevent zealots/ DTs from running right into your main and killing workers while dealing significant damage to the force before your army arrives.
"Hmm... I already have 2 Evolution Chambers and I don't want anymore... Solution?"
Any Zerg tech structure, bar the Spire, can be used as part of the wall-off, although more important tech structures should remain inside the base.
"This is @#*&shit! This wall doesn't even work etc.
Leave this thread immediately and try it yourself. If you are still unconvinced, forget you ever read this.
"This wall sucks... I know a better one."
This is the kind of constructive criticisms I want! If you have anything to add, kindly make a post about it in this thread. Make sure you got your facts straight before posting!
Even though this wall is known by some Zergs, they are hardly utilized. More Zergs should try to adopt this for early-game defence, especially against the reactored hellion opening in ZvT. This thread is open to discussion about other (effective) Zerg walls. May us Zergs wall like Terran...
ZERG... UNITE!
Credit to LiquidTLO for inspiring me to try out Zerg walls after holding off a Baneling all-in with one.
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Awesome, I have always been frustrated by the spine crawler letting in zerglings, hellions, and any other unit. Thanks for the tip, I'll try it out soon.
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Hm isn't spine crawler+evo always tight? just tested it again and only spine+spine or spine+spore and spore+spore let units through.
From my testing it doesn't matter if it is diagonal or not.
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What? how is this new??
also:
'More Zergs should try this and adopt it for early-game defence, especially with the reactored hellion opening coming into play in ZvT'
Reactored hellion COMING into play? I feel like this thread was written 2 years ago and got necro'd but no.. :/
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On October 24 2012 19:09 TBO wrote:
Hm isn't spine crawler+evo always tight? just tested it again and only spine+spine or spine+spore and spore+spore let units through.
From my testing it doesn't matter if it is diagonal or not.
Thanks for telling me  *edits post*
On October 24 2012 19:11 MateShade wrote:
What? how is this new??
also:
'More Zergs should try this and adopt it for early-game defence, especially with the reactored hellion opening coming into play in ZvT'
Reactored hellion COMING into play? I feel like this thread was written 2 years ago and got necro'd but no.. :/
Sorry for the poor English. I will be sure to correct that in my post.
My point still stands. Many (low level) Zergs do not know about this technique. Those that do know do not utilize it much (as far as I've seen). I would like to see more Zerg wall action during matches with other Zergs
Discussion is still open for ideas for other Zerg walls.
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I'm gonna give constructive criticism, but before that, let me first thank you for sharing your work. I have written multiple guides/articles myself, so I understand that it takes more effort to be an OP than most people imagine. Thanks for your time and effort put into this.
That said, here are some advice/criticism I give you:
First, it seems you read "TL.net Ten Commandments" from your post history, but you also should have read SC2 Strategy Forum Guidelines before posting this. The title lacks required tag. I'm not sure if this thread qualifies as [G], but at least [D] should have been added. Once uploaded, only a moderator can edit the title upon/without your request.
Also, while I appreciate your work, the research isn't nearly thorough enough to be of much use. 3 pictures are not enough for people to understand the concept you wanted to deliver. I am being a little too harsh because I also posted Zerg wall-in/grid related threads before. Check [G] Zerg Sim City for Spire protection in ZvP and [G] ZvT Perfect Spine placement vs 2rax Bunker. I assure you that I probably understand your grid argument far better than other people because I too have spent tons of hours experimenting grids and even footprints with map editor as evidenced in the mentioned threads. However, even I have hard time fully comprehending the content in this thread. Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to boast of my works, but adapting some of the ideas I used in those threads would enhance the quality of this thread as well. Have you thought of using Excel spreadsheet to show structure grids? Have you thought of introducing x-y coordinates to denote the relative positioning of buildings? Or, have you thought of testing wall-ins on natural expansions on all ladder maps? As a semi-perfectionist OP, this thread's work so far looks only about 30% done if I were to write the same thing. Not enough research was carried out, not enough thoughts were given on delivery method.The topic itself has so much potential. I turst your "More coming soon." Sorry if I sounded like a douche bag, but this was my honest opinion.
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On October 24 2012 21:12 Orek wrote:I'm gonna give constructive criticism, but before that, let me first thank you for sharing your work. I have written multiple guides/articles myself, so I understand that it takes more effort to be an OP than most people imagine. Thanks for your time and effort put into this. That said, here are some advice/criticism I give you: First, it seems you read "TL.net Ten Commandments" from your post history, but you also should have read SC2 Strategy Forum Guidelines before posting this. The title lacks required tag. I'm not sure if this thread qualifies as [G], but at least [D] should have been added. Once uploaded, only a moderator can edit the title upon/without your request. Also, while I appreciate your work, the research isn't nearly thorough enough to be of much use. 3 pictures are not enough for people to understand the concept you wanted to deliver. I am being a little too harsh because I also posted Zerg wall-in/grid related threads before. Check [G] Zerg Sim City for Spire protection in ZvP and [G] ZvT Perfect Spine placement vs 2rax Bunker. I assure you that I probably understand your grid argument far better than other people because I too have spent tons of hours experimenting grids and even footprints with map editor as evidenced in the mentioned threads. However, even I have hard time fully comprehending the content in this thread. Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to boast of my works, but adapting some of the ideas I used in those threads would enhance the quality of this thread as well. Have you thought of using Excel spreadsheet to show structure grids? Have you thought of introducing x-y coordinates to denote the relative positioning of buildings? Or, have you thought of testing wall-ins on natural expansions on all ladder maps? As a semi-perfectionist OP, this thread's work so far looks only about 30% done if I were to write the same thing. Not enough research was carried out, not enough thoughts were given on delivery method.The topic itself has so much potential. I turst your "More coming soon." Sorry if I sounded like a douche bag, but this was my honest opinion.
I completely agree, I should provide more material and explanation. Like I said, I like this constructive criticism
I was kind of making this post in a rush, so I did not fully express most of the details. I will try to add more details and explanations when I have time.
P.S Your Zerg Sim cities are awesome, and I should probably try the Greater Spire Sim city myself. Thanks for the critique once again!
Edit: However, I am not very good with Excel spreadsheet. I probably have to go learn how to do what you did in your other threads. Well, first time for everything!
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Nice tip, but how many creep tumors need to make the building placement on the ramp? (nat ramp for FEs)
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On October 24 2012 22:45 Brainiac_Br wrote:
Nice tip, but how many creep tumors need to make the building placement on the ramp? (nat ramp for FEs)
You need at least one.?!
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On October 24 2012 22:52 Brainyac wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 22:45 Brainiac_Br wrote:
Nice tip, but how many creep tumors need to make the building placement on the ramp? (nat ramp for FEs) You need at least one.?!
What he said. At least enough to cover the top of the ramp so you can lay down buildings. It should be easy against hellion openings considering the number of queens you will get by then. However, this is not just limited to ramps. On certain maps (eg. Cloud Kingdom), the choke at the natural is the perfect spot for a wall. A creep tumor spread by the first queen will be able to spread creep onto the choke and you will be able to block off your natural from any early rush (should you scout one).
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nice work
a small addition to your guide: you can also mention the Hellion Filter
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Zerg make walls, like the Spartans did in 300.
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LOL wrong thread sorry about that.
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TY for the guide i never really thought about this even though i was aware! Now i have a way to stop losing so early to mech playing terrans and there run bys when my queens are out dropping tumors.
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Orek... just Yiiikes! I think the concept is pretty simple, and easily understood, but there probably could be more thought given in the OP. For example, does this work for all match ups? I'm pretty sure this doesn't work in ZvZ, where your opponent has the same kind of units. I've tried some walls in the past, and I remember the opponents lings getting through some of them.
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I wanted to let you know that thanks to this guide, I just won a ZvZ (my lowest winrate matchup). It kept me safe while I macroed up at my natural, and kept the zergling/baneling aggression away.
The three images were definitely enough for me to understand the workings behind this - spine against evo creates a tight seal, and putting a square between evo chambers allows you to move any Z unit through that gap once the spine is uprooted. I like the ling-tight squeeze of the corner-to-corner evo chambers too - I haven't used that one yet but from experience I'm certain it'll work as described. Good tip on the spore crawler health too, I never noticed that - even better for walls!
This is a great guide to something I hadn't even considered before. Thank you!
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On October 25 2012 09:00 HypertonicHydroponic wrote:
Orek... just Yiiikes! I think the concept is pretty simple, and easily understood, but there probably could be more thought given in the OP. For example, does this work for all match ups? I'm pretty sure this doesn't work in ZvZ, where your opponent has the same kind of units. I've tried some walls in the past, and I remember the opponents lings getting through some of them.
This wall works completely fine in ZvZ. When the Spine is burrowed in the entrance between the evolution chambers, no Zerg unit can pass through, but you can unburrow the Spine to let all Zerg units pass through if the wall was done right. The wall does work in ALL matchups, and no unit can pass through when it is closed, not even zerglings.
I'm glad that some Zergs here are incorporating walls into their strategies now and I hope it changes the reactored hellion opening metagame
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On October 25 2012 11:08 porygon361 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 09:00 HypertonicHydroponic wrote:
Orek... just Yiiikes! I think the concept is pretty simple, and easily understood, but there probably could be more thought given in the OP. For example, does this work for all match ups? I'm pretty sure this doesn't work in ZvZ, where your opponent has the same kind of units. I've tried some walls in the past, and I remember the opponents lings getting through some of them. This wall works completely fine in ZvZ. When the Spine is burrowed in the entrance between the evolution chambers, no Zerg unit can pass through, but you can unburrow the Spine to let all Zerg units pass through if the wall was done right. The wall does work in ALL matchups, and no unit can pass through when it is closed, not even zerglings. I'm glad that some Zergs here are incorporating walls into their strategies now and I hope it changes the reactored hellion opening metagame
It's possible that the wall I attempted included the hatchery which has more space around the corners -- you should probably include the versions of this that work with a hatchery, as well as those that do not work, hatchery or otherwise.
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On October 25 2012 13:54 HypertonicHydroponic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 11:08 porygon361 wrote:On October 25 2012 09:00 HypertonicHydroponic wrote:
Orek... just Yiiikes! I think the concept is pretty simple, and easily understood, but there probably could be more thought given in the OP. For example, does this work for all match ups? I'm pretty sure this doesn't work in ZvZ, where your opponent has the same kind of units. I've tried some walls in the past, and I remember the opponents lings getting through some of them. This wall works completely fine in ZvZ. When the Spine is burrowed in the entrance between the evolution chambers, no Zerg unit can pass through, but you can unburrow the Spine to let all Zerg units pass through if the wall was done right. The wall does work in ALL matchups, and no unit can pass through when it is closed, not even zerglings. I'm glad that some Zergs here are incorporating walls into their strategies now and I hope it changes the reactored hellion opening metagame It's possible that the wall I attempted included the hatchery which has more space around the corners -- you should probably include the versions of this that work with a hatchery, as well as those that do not work, hatchery or otherwise.
I'm currently working on the examples. However, I am experiencing a small time constraint, and it might be a while before I post something new.
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On October 24 2012 23:57 Magwado wrote:nice work a small addition to your guide: you can also mention the Hellion Filter
Added the Hellion Filter to the list of walls.
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*ahem*
I would like to hear more discussion on Zerg walls, especially in HotS.
Mods, please rename this thread to "[G] Zerg Wall-ins". Thank you.
Edit: Either that or "[G,D] Zerg Wall-ins", whichever you find is more suitable.
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Maybe you should bump this again, or link it in another thread or two. Only four times you've linked it without any talk of walling off in any thread... only four!
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Wow. HotS balance update changes everything...Maybe it means spine in HotS now uses same footprint as cannon/turret/depot etc. It's sad that all the work has to be re-done once HotS is out.
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So this HOTS change helps defend hellions better zvt right? 2 queen and a spine will block a bigger choke.
Also useful in zvz sim citying vs bling attacks.
Oh if u want WOL zerg walls look at massan and snute. Massan always walls off his natural in every matchup if theres another opening. This is with roach warren+2 evos. This prevents a lot of harassment midgame. Also snute uses 2 evos and roach warren no gas opening zvz. Its good! wall blings out./
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On October 27 2012 13:01 TheGreenMachine wrote:
So this HOTS change helps defend hellions better zvt right? 2 queen and a spine will block a bigger choke.
Also useful in zvz sim citying vs bling attacks.
Oh if u want WOL zerg walls look at massan and snute. Massan always walls off his natural in every matchup if theres another opening. This is with roach warren+2 evos. This prevents a lot of harassment midgame. Also snute uses 2 evos and roach warren no gas opening zvz. Its good! wall blings out./
Thanks for the tip. I'll be sure to watch their streams more often
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In my opinion of the HotS Spine update, Blizzard is trying to make the game more newbie/casual player friendly. The Spine crawler had an awkward hitbox, and many newbies have had trouble walling in because of it. Not saying the change is bad, but we'll just have to wait and see.
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Canada16217 Posts
The spine update is good in my opinion it removes the "luck" element if a terran decides to run by the spine crawler/queens to get drones with hellions and in ZvZ it will remove most of the early-game volatility.
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On October 27 2012 17:24 NovemberstOrm wrote:
The spine update is good in my opinion it removes the "luck" element if a terran decides to run by the spine crawler/queens to get drones with hellions and in ZvZ it will remove most of the early-game volatility.
I completely agree with your last point, only that it isn't luck that allows Terran to run past all Zerg defenses. Its the fact that many Zergs don't wall in the first place. But the Terran does need a certain degree of skill and some "luck" to a certain extent to make his hellion raid cost-effective.
So... Now Zerg has complete wall-ins that can be opened like a supply depot... Blizzard, its Protoss' turn.
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It's nice to see you update the content. I believe you've been waiting for someone to notice. I know how that feels when I ninja update as an OP myself I've been paying attention to this thread that I criticized the quality of earlier. It's so much better now. Thank you for your effort.
Just one thing I noticed:
+ Show Spoiler +
On the right side, space between Evo and Spine is actually zergling-tight and the arrow should be removed from the image. Only between Hatchery and Spine can units get through. Otherwise, it contradicts your earlier zergling-tight example version 1:
+ Show Spoiler +
Please keep up your good work.
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this is a great guide and very interesting
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Saw a streamer leave a little hole in his wall and plug it with queens, thought that was pretty smart.
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On October 29 2012 22:57 Orek wrote:It's nice to see you update the content. I believe you've been waiting for someone to notice. I know how that feels when I ninja update as an OP myself I've been paying attention to this thread that I criticized the quality of earlier. It's so much better now. Thank you for your effort. Just one thing I noticed: + Show Spoiler +On the right side, space between Evo and Spine is actually zergling-tight and the arrow should be removed from the image. Only between Hatchery and Spine can units get through. Otherwise, it contradicts your earlier zergling-tight example version 1: + Show Spoiler +Please keep up your good work.
Damn, I shouldn't have drawn that arrow there, will make the amendments soon.
Thanks for the encouragement
On October 29 2012 23:31 Wilshire093 wrote:
Saw a streamer leave a little hole in his wall and plug it with queens, thought that was pretty smart.
Hm... I will consider adding this to the list of walls. However, the queens are not the most supply efficient wall throughout the game, although queens are great for temporary defense before you get your wall set up.
Also, I think I should have made this thread a long, long time ago. HotS is coming out soon, and if the Spine crawler change ships out the way it is in the beta, a lot of information here would become irrelevant. However, I am making this thread mostly to tell uninformed people about Zerg walls and how he can use it to defend against certain attacks well into the lategame. When Blizzard changed the Spine crawler, many Zergs are bound to be attracted to the walling quality of the Spine crawler now, so mission accomplished! As for the guides on the walls I made here, MOST are still relevant, although now it is easier to make a Spine crawler wall: arrange them in a line.
P.S You know... Its a bit weird that Blizzard announced the Spine crawler change 4 days after my OP was released... Coincidence?
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On October 30 2012 00:09 porygon361 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 29 2012 22:57 Orek wrote:It's nice to see you update the content. I believe you've been waiting for someone to notice. I know how that feels when I ninja update as an OP myself I've been paying attention to this thread that I criticized the quality of earlier. It's so much better now. Thank you for your effort. Just one thing I noticed: + Show Spoiler +On the right side, space between Evo and Spine is actually zergling-tight and the arrow should be removed from the image. Only between Hatchery and Spine can units get through. Otherwise, it contradicts your earlier zergling-tight example version 1: + Show Spoiler +Please keep up your good work. Damn, I shouldn't have drawn that arrow there, will make the amendments soon. Thanks for the encouragement On October 29 2012 23:31 Wilshire093 wrote:
Saw a streamer leave a little hole in his wall and plug it with queens, thought that was pretty smart. Hm... I will consider adding this to the list of walls. However, the queens are not the most supply efficient wall throughout the game, although queens are great for temporary defense before you get your wall set up. Also, I think I should have made this thread a long, long time ago. HotS is coming out soon, and if the Spine crawler change ships out the way it is in the beta, a lot of information here would become irrelevant. However, I am making this thread mostly to tell uninformed people about Zerg walls and how he can use it to defend against certain attacks well into the lategame. When Blizzard changed the Spine crawler, many Zergs are bound to be attracted to the walling quality of the Spine crawler now, so mission accomplished! As for the guides on the walls I made here, MOST are still relevant, although now it is easier to make a Spine crawler wall: arrange them in a line. P.S You know... Its a bit weird that Blizzard announced the Spine crawler change 4 days after my OP was released... Coincidence?
Dat timing when you post this thread....so unlucky of you. However, HotS wall is only going to be easier, so any WoL wall should work anyways. As you said, content today will stay relevant in future. You will need to update once HotS come out though. I wonder how TL handles thread category when HotS and WoL threads coexist for a while.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/F0gho.png)
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