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Hi,
High diamond/low masters random player here.
I took a look at this build and I have a question.
Would it be reasonable to 15 CC in base and THEN go into 2 rax, since builds like these (where you take two gas in main sort of fast) leave you with about half saturation in your line, thus making an in base CC not the worst investment. I feel like this would eliminate the need for the 3 bunkers and allow you to take gas a bit earlier while building up your scv count for a transfer later on.
Please tell me if that sounds like a good idea or not, I just might try it out.
Edit: Also, when it comes to micro, why not magic box over the HTs if they dont have a lot of stalkers? Or if you're able to snipe the obs?
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Tribe,
I haven't found HTs very challenging to deal with due to banshee's speed, but I've never seen them get enough to blanket an engagement zone effectively either.
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I guess this build is still working for some Terrans, but as a Toss that opens with 2-base templar, a banshee-based composition sounds like a joke. Your guide says that Toss can't get enough templar to beat your banshees, but for the gas cost of 3 banshees, I can have 2 feedbacks and 4 storms....
I guess most Toss below mid-master only know how to a-move colossi?
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On September 21 2012 03:23 kcdc wrote:
I guess this build is still working for some Terrans, but as a Toss that opens with 2-base templar, a banshee-based composition sounds like a joke. Your guide says that Toss can't get enough templar to beat your banshees, but for the gas cost of 3 banshees, I can have 3 feedbacks and 6 storms....
I guess most Toss below mid-master only know how to a-move colossi?
Haha...yes indeed. Plat Pross and below that I've played against (recalling I'm silver) tend to
a) not scout skyterren effectively
b) scout but not respond appropriately (ie more stalkers)
c) respond with HT but use storm which is easy to dodge even at my level with quick banshees.
The best response by protoss is HT Feedback on the PDDs first and foremost (or ravens), but feedback isnt used much at lower levels.
like I said in my post, getting caught in an archon toilet is auto-lose too ;-)
The reason I like this build is because there are so many things Protoss can do wrong 
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I guess this build is still working for some Terrans, but as a Toss that opens with 2-base templar, a banshee-based composition sounds like a joke. Your guide says that Toss can't get enough templar to beat your banshees, but for the gas cost of 3 banshees, I can have 2 feedbacks and 4 storms....
I guess most Toss below mid-master only know how to a-move colossi?
I've played plenty of protoss that go templar first while going this build (1200 masters last season, so mid masters). In situations such as this, yes a protoss is going to have sufficient templar support to make direct engagements or harrass very tough.
However, I personally stock large numbers of hellions even into the late game for the sole purpose of templar elimination when the protoss moves out. So I'll just grab as many bases as I can and build up production in the mean time. When the Protoss starts to move out for a push, in drive 15-20 suicidal blueflame hellions and usually get a fair percentage of the templar, even at maxed army sizes. I still usually have enough time to fill the 40 supply with air units by the time the protoss hits my side of the map.
Out of all the times I've lost end game battles with this composition, I can only count a couple handfuls of them that were due to killer storms.
That being said, templar are still definitly the best (most efficient perhaps?) way to beat this build.
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On September 21 2012 03:23 kcdc wrote:
I guess this build is still working for some Terrans, but as a Toss that opens with 2-base templar, a banshee-based composition sounds like a joke. Your guide says that Toss can't get enough templar to beat your banshees, but for the gas cost of 3 banshees, I can have 2 feedbacks and 4 storms....
I guess most Toss below mid-master only know how to a-move colossi?
I play exclusively sky terran in TvP, and while two base HT is the most challenging opener to handle, I still handle it easily. I never stop reactoring marines and building bunkers once I identify that opener. On most maps (ohana, taldarim, antiga, etc) I can bunker my way to a third and keep my bashees plenty far back defensively.
Look up my replays on drop.sc/ my name is JoshFreeman on NA. Any TvP on there is sky terran and my opponents range from top 8 diamond to top 8 masters. It works at high levels.
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Hello Everyone, I am an experienced Sky Terran on the NA server. If anyone would like to test me, I promise I won't dissappoint. I also Sky vs Zerg as well. Feel free to add. AHvmpingDogi.549
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On September 21 2012 04:36 IcemanA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 03:23 kcdc wrote:
I guess this build is still working for some Terrans, but as a Toss that opens with 2-base templar, a banshee-based composition sounds like a joke. Your guide says that Toss can't get enough templar to beat your banshees, but for the gas cost of 3 banshees, I can have 3 feedbacks and 6 storms....
I guess most Toss below mid-master only know how to a-move colossi? Haha...yes indeed. Plat Pross and below that I've played against (recalling I'm silver) tend to a) not scout skyterren effectively b) scout but not respond appropriately (ie more stalkers) c) respond with HT but use storm which is easy to dodge even at my level with quick banshees. The best response by protoss is HT Feedback on the PDDs first and foremost (or ravens), but feedback isnt used much at lower levels. like I said in my post, getting caught in an archon toilet is auto-lose too ;-) The reason I like this build is because there are so many things Protoss can do wrong
Why develop an entire guide that relies on your opponent being bad?
Air vs Protoss can work but as an opening.. Skyterran is super gimmicky.
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Hello Everyone, I am an experienced Sky Terran on the NA server. If anyone would like to test me, I promise I won't dissappoint. I also Sky vs Zerg as well. Feel free to add. AHvmpingDogi.549
HvmpingD0gi, do you have any replays of sky terran vs Z, i'm really struggling in that I can get up to 4 bases fine, however by that time I either have to deal with huge ling run bys (BCs are too slow to catch) or mass corruptors (even with PDD/seeker this fight is hard).
Thanks!
Why develop an entire guide that relies on your opponent being bad?
Any strategy will benefit from their opponent being bad. Sky terran has its weaknesses sure, (HTs & blink stalkers mainly) but so do other compositions, the challenge is how to mitigate those weaknesses.
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On September 24 2012 16:57 rebotfc wrote:Show nested quote +Hello Everyone, I am an experienced Sky Terran on the NA server. If anyone would like to test me, I promise I won't dissappoint. I also Sky vs Zerg as well. Feel free to add. AHvmpingDogi.549 HvmpingD0gi, do you have any replays of sky terran vs Z, i'm really struggling in that I can get up to 4 bases fine, however by that time I either have to deal with huge ling run bys (BCs are too slow to catch) or mass corruptors (even with PDD/seeker this fight is hard). Thanks! Any strategy will benefit from their opponent being bad. Sky terran has its weaknesses sure, (HTs & blink stalkers mainly) but so do other compositions, the challenge is how to mitigate those weaknesses.
This build relies on your opponent having absolutely no idea what to do.
That's what we like to call cheese.
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HvmpingD0gi, do you have any replays of sky terran vs Z, i'm really struggling in that I can get up to 4 bases fine, however by that time I either have to deal with huge ling run bys (BCs are too slow to catch) or mass corruptors (even with PDD/seeker this fight is hard).
Thanks!
Yes, I do have replays you can watch. How do I send them? Or where do I upload them to?
And I would not recommend using BCs in TvZ, too slow and and takes a lot of time too build, as well as being countered super well by corruptors. Do not use ravens until you have spare gas in the late game, unless you lose air superiority early on, but that's just how I do it.
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This build relies on your opponent having absolutely no idea what to do.
That's what we like to call cheese.
I'm almost positive over 90% of the games I play they have an absolutely good idea of what I'm doing. They even choose the best ways and the correct counters to deal with a build like this. I don't always win, but I win a lot more than I lose and that's forsure. Still cheese?
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Yes, I do have replays you can watch. How do I send them? Or where do I upload them to?
Hey HvmpingD0g, i find the best place to upload them is here http://drop.sc . You just drag the replay file to the page.
This build relies on your opponent having absolutely no idea what to do.
I've seen many protoss respond in the right way, however it is still possible to win these games.
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On September 25 2012 03:31 MahE wrote:
This build relies on your opponent having absolutely no idea what to do.
That's what we like to call cheese.
I would dispute that it RELIES on it, just that it helps more than some other builds.
If my enemy has observers blink stalkers and HTs, have they not responded correctly? If I still win (dodge storms, lay down pdds, snipe observers), is it still cheese if the opponent did respond well?
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what is a good defensive opener i can do in order to get to that point in time, i find that the problem i have is staying alive in the early game.
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On September 27 2012 03:55 Blackknight232 wrote:
what is a good defensive opener i can do in order to get to that point in time, i find that the problem i have is staying alive in the early game.
What are you facing in the early game at what timings? It's hard to say without that....
But generally, if you are losing before you get your first banshee out (which can clean up some early P rushes all by itself with cloak), maybe you should use the 3rax variant synystyr mentions instead of the 1rax, and have 3 bunkers instead of 1 or two. Responding quickly with workers to repair is critical too.
If your banshee is out harassing, they are likely going to try to respond to that, but if they decide to attack your base and let you take out probes, your first raven should be out momentarily to help with a PDD, and certainly by this time 2-3 bunkers should be filled, with some overflow of marines.
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like i've been dieing to blink stalkers, 4 gate(yes i've been dieing to that even with shit tons of bunkers still can't hold it) 1 base collsi and no matter what opener i do: i've done from sige expand, 1 rax f.e, 2 rax expand, even went 3 rax one time and got c.s , stim, and neosteel frame just to hold any kind of play from the toss which i know delays my ports a lot but i feel like if i rush to ports he'll just a move and attack me and win.and i don't like 1/1/1 openers as i don't do any kind of harassment and i like to play defensive till i got a decent army and i'm able to move out and get map control due to toss being able to wrap any they please it makes it hard to move out. i vetoed all 2 player maps and kept all 4 player maps just to have some distance between me and my opp
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Blackknight, do you have any replays. In what minute are you dying, what level do you play at?
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On September 25 2012 17:39 rebotfc wrote:Show nested quote +Yes, I do have replays you can watch. How do I send them? Or where do I upload them to? Hey HvmpingD0g, i find the best place to upload them is here http://drop.sc . You just drag the replay file to the page. I've seen many protoss respond in the right way, however it is still possible to win these games.
I'll have some replays up for you by this weekend rebo. Sorry for the delay, very busy during the week.
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On September 27 2012 04:51 Blackknight232 wrote:
like i've been dieing to blink stalkers, 4 gate(yes i've been dieing to that even with shit tons of bunkers still can't hold it) 1 base collsi and no matter what opener i do: i've done from sige expand, 1 rax f.e, 2 rax expand, even went 3 rax one time and got c.s , stim, and neosteel frame just to hold any kind of play from the toss which i know delays my ports a lot but i feel like if i rush to ports he'll just a move and attack me and win.and i don't like 1/1/1 openers as i don't do any kind of harassment and i like to play defensive till i got a decent army and i'm able to move out and get map control due to toss being able to wrap any they please it makes it hard to move out. i vetoed all 2 player maps and kept all 4 player maps just to have some distance between me and my opp
Blackknight, you should not being losing to 1 base collosi. But being an experienced Sky Terran, I think I can speak for most that if your opponent does a 1 base blink stalker opening it's almost a build order win. UNLESS you have atleast 3 rax pumping marines to aid your banshees, sometimes it is even possible with 2 rax but that is just too hard. Of course you can use marauders, but me being stubborn I refuse to use anything but sky. Keep in mind protoss builds involving a rebotics bay in the early game(which is highly probable) means they will have an observer, with that being said why would you need cloak right? I only research cloak if I plan on sniping obs or if I see early HT(cloak and decloak to waste energy so HTs cannot feedback). Get cloak later if being defensive early game, so you can get banshees out quicker.
Remember it's not all about cloak, it's about the banshee's DPS.
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EPT
