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mluby
United States7 Posts
Now I have no idea what kind of weird build order you'd have to do to get these two CCs in place, but considering the benefit of 4 safe bases, I think it warrants some investigation! PF placement images follow. + Show Spoiler + (Note, red circles indicate +1 range upgrade.) Top PF: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AaCpr.png) Bottom PF: | ||
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mluby
United States7 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZrmF0.png) Fun Fact 3: TWO PFs cover THREE bases by ground on Entombed Valley. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rM2VA.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XXr16.png) Of the three PF options, • Condemned Ridge seems to offer the best (most survivable early-game) ROI on PFs to bases (1 for 3), followed by • Tal'Darim Altar (2 for 4), then • Entombed Valley (2 for 3). I recommend people interested in this try to make 1PF on Condemned Ridge work before attempting a 2PF wall. | ||
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ncsix
1370 Posts
Depending on the Z build and your micro skills, one possible strategy to skip tanks for attacks in the Mid-game because they almost always never get home from a battle exchange, granted, they are great for focus firing banelings, but maybe mixing in more BF hellions, keeping your medivacs alive can give you enough gas and time for building late game units. I'm thinking a small group of vikings first to go overlord hunting and really keep the zerg supply count down, while getting BCs. BW use to have a lot of overlord hunting, and its strange we don't see this so much in SC2. Tanks and PFs to keep your 3rd and 4th from ling / bane infestor,attacks, while building a sizable BC fleet of 6 should be good enough to take out a few Z expansions and defend against any base trades. | ||
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nath
United States1788 Posts
i honestly believe terran is the mineral race, more expansions, more raxes, and good micro will win you lategame tvz and tvp. i think BC's and Thors as supporting units (in small numbers and not necessarily upgraded) work well | ||
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
On June 26 2012 08:33 Fencer710 wrote: What? Protoss players these days have Cannons+HT's guarding their bases from drops anyway... Ghosts do 22 damage against Zealot armor, the same DPS as un-stimmed Marauders do against Stalkers, and they have EMP which does huge damage if you EMP all the Protoss units, plus it gets rid of the energy on Sentries, which means no Guardian Shield, and no Psi Storm if you get the HT's too. HT's also die to 1 Snipe if you EMP them first. Banshees do high DPS per supply, but have very low HP per supply. Marines, Reapers, and Marauders are all better for that purpose. The two advantages are that it can Cloak, and it can fly. Unfortunately those are negligible against late-game Protoss, which has at least two Robotics Facilities anyway, which means double Observer production. most protoss i watched from stream don't make cannons, they aren't that cheap investment early to mid game ghost does 14 dps on ground unit to light, and 7 dps to none light, and have very little harass option. Banshee does 19dps to all, can harass early to mid game, and with viking support I don't see why killing observers + harass can't be done with proper micro. Maybe someone have tested it yet, but I have never seen anyone go with banshee+ viking. Its usually one or the other, and any time u can tie protoss to make observers instead of lasers is good in my book | ||
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GTPGlitch
5061 Posts
Usually open 1rax FE, get a second rax to maybe pressure if toss went for greedy play and made next to no units (will also occasionally block nexus with a bunker or put a bunker at the top of P ramp). From there, fast 3rd OC with 3fax/1port and double armory, adding on more facs while taking the third. The general aim as I shimmy into 3base play is to build up a strong tank/hellion count with a light supporting cast of ravens with HSM and 2-3 vikings to deal with warp prisms and observers. Heading into fourth base, go up to 4 starports and usually around 10fac (often maxed around here), have 2-3 planetaries at 4th and guarding the way into 3rd/nat/main. Attack P fourth or fifth base with large use of scans so that you don't get caught out of position. If you knock out the P army and an expo or two, gjgj. Usually 3-5 HSM's + siege tank/hellion can take care of any colossus-centric army composition, because it's very common for the templar transition to come after they've lost their colossi in my experience and so feedback won't be available Slowly add on more starports for more ravens, dumping minerals into mass planetary to help secure 5th/6th (main/nat on a 4player map, otherwise hard to get to this point). Slowly begin to phase out tanks, going up to 12-15 ravens, hellions, and a smattering of thor/tank. add on a light dash of banshee and battlecruiser and you should be good to go. 8-10 Seeker missiles can drop a protoss army down 80 food in seconds, tanks/thors can deal with stalkers while bc's/thors tank, and hellions can deal with zealots. If you're on 6base I usually have 15fac/10port so it's very easy to remax on either mech, skymech, or you can just add more ports if you want to go pure sky. The central goal should be to abuse cost effectiveness and limit the expansions that the protoss can take-ravens are key because they allow you to dump minerals into more bases=more income=easier to remax and move out again to deny more bases. Works very well on Condemned ridge. Antiga is much more favorable to a 3base max and just pure mech push, although securing the center and then PFspam across the middle would probably get you to the endgame pretty well (but you've pretty much won if you can do that :|). I veto TDA, Entombed is tough for me personally because of the space between bases, unlike the closer 4th bases that you can take on Condemned. Cloud Kingdom is also good for the 3base mech-raven pushes, as there's no chance to really safely take 5-6 bases. Shak plateau is easy to cover both main/nats entrance with planetaries, and then use Xel'Naga towers as central rally points to secure bases 5+6. Can't remember what other maps though ^^ Also, I've never tried it but theoretically you could add in 2-3 medivacs and ball up all the flying energy things so that P could maybe waste feedback on those~ | ||
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
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GTPGlitch
5061 Posts
On June 26 2012 15:37 Adonminus wrote: All I know is that one of the options for very late game TvP it's to go Ghost Viking Medievac and that's an absolutely overpowered and unstoppable composition, ghosts dps is simply too good especially when your army also gets emped and colossus die to viking. It's unstoppable but very expensive. Forgive me if I'm wrong but could you not simply make stalkers? Don't get extra damage from ghosts and can kill medivacs and vikings after~ | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On June 26 2012 16:38 GTPGlitch wrote: Forgive me if I'm wrong but could you not simply make stalkers? Don't get extra damage from ghosts and can kill medivacs and vikings after~ I go Ghost/Viking/Medivac/Marauder/Reaper and cut out the Marines as much as possible in the late-game. The difference is that you have units that do a lot of DPS vs casters that do much less DPS. Edit: Reapers and Marauders also cost gas.  | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On June 26 2012 14:36 ncsix wrote: Zerg player here with a few suggestions for T. Depending on the Z build and your micro skills, one possible strategy to skip tanks for attacks in the Mid-game because they almost always never get home from a battle exchange, granted, they are great for focus firing banelings, but maybe mixing in more BF hellions, keeping your medivacs alive can give you enough gas and time for building late game units. I'm thinking a small group of vikings first to go overlord hunting and really keep the zerg supply count down, while getting BCs. BW use to have a lot of overlord hunting, and its strange we don't see this so much in SC2. Tanks and PFs to keep your 3rd and 4th from ling / bane infestor,attacks, while building a sizable BC fleet of 6 should be good enough to take out a few Z expansions and defend against any base trades. then Z just makes a bunch of corruptors to kill the BC's with corruption ability, and then morphs them into bl's? | ||
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
On June 26 2012 16:38 GTPGlitch wrote: Forgive me if I'm wrong but could you not simply make stalkers? Don't get extra damage from ghosts and can kill medivacs and vikings after~ Ghost dps is insane even without light bonus, they destroy buildings in seconds. While stalkers don't even get extra damage against ghosts and with medievac heal they don't even die. Further more, you can cloak all ghosts, and snipe observers with vikings. | ||
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CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr
544 Posts
On June 26 2012 15:37 Adonminus wrote: All I know is that one of the options for very late game TvP it's to go Ghost Viking Medievac and that's an absolutely overpowered and unstoppable composition, ghosts dps is simply too good especially when your army also gets emped and colossus die to viking. It's unstoppable but very expensive. nice post u had me at overpowered | ||
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
On June 26 2012 18:40 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote: nice post u had me at overpowered Well, it's a composition you rarely can get. It's like getting those mass 3/3/3 carriers as protoss which are too overpowered and unstoppable. | ||
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Aoxer
44 Posts
Although personally I find this a little slow and boring, I prefer to zerg my opponent <3 | ||
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Kull of Atlantis
Turkey98 Posts
For a long time I am thinking the same thing OP proposed. Just turtling slowly and slowly and defend what your opponent throws at you in TvZ and TvP. I couldn't read the whole thread right now but it's really good to see other people has seen this kind of play as our salvation. The problem is it's also not easy to pull of a solid turtle style. It's may be the most methodic style. I remember it from early day of brood war (99-2000) while terrans were turtling hard. Anyway I will read the whole thread when I have time, I really want to adapt turtle style in my play. Thanks everyone, Kull | ||
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Blackknight232
United States169 Posts
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heaven-
United States361 Posts
On June 24 2012 14:36 iAmJeffReY wrote: ....what Please explain this. I just don't see this combo doing anything in TvP. Mech vs protoss. You need all those components for it to work. | ||
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Blackknight232
United States169 Posts
http://drop.sc/208189 | ||
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