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Re: Ghost vs. Raven CG
First, I'll answer the question. Yes, if I was forced to pick, I'd pick ghost. However, I do want to control ravens separately. For example, I often want to queue a move backwards after casting a spell so that my expensive raven(s) don't get sniped by holding still at the front.
Now, sorry if I sound like a broken record, but I disagree with the suggested CGs being tied to unit type regardless of matchup or strategy. Ultimately, this leads to one or two very good CGs going unused during a game because that unit won't be useful.
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@Smack
I think that it's perfectly reasonable to have different control group setups for different strategies and situations. Just as I think that each person will probably make their own modifications to TheCore to make it fit them perfectly. The Suggested CGs are aimed at giving a person the best overall setup that will work well in all or almost all situations. I don't think its worth spending time going over every strat/unit comp and suggesting a CG setup for it.
Ghost vs Raven
I think that both must be controlled individually. The question is which one is better controlled indiviudally by a control group and which one is better controlled by ctrl clicking or individually clicking on the unit to select it manually overall.
EDIT
The / (Z) key
This key cannot be used as a CG or as a camera because you have to use modifiers to set it. It could be used as an alternate recall, or if it is set with a different key combination it could be used to recall CG/cam but it can't be an all-in one button. I think it is a good decision to not used this key for anything that is used in repetition or with modifiers. I am less sure if we should exclude it from commands that operate with the key held down (like making zerglings). What do you all think?
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TheCore 0.8 is available on GitHub*
*there are a couple of issues:
MothershipCore - conflict of abilities
Raven - conflict of abilities
Starport Techlab
WoL Factory Techlab
Left 2 Die Factory Techlab
JDub is going to have to take a look at the IngameGUI script and see what's causing the errors. Everything in my knowledge is set up correctly to make this work.
I wanted to let you all have the files as soon as possible (because that's what I would want). We'll be following this up with a fix on the above mention issues as well as a video explaining the different uses of rapidfire in TheCore and why we chose them.
Please report any issues/bugs with these files, when we're bug free i'll copy the files over to the SkyDrive.
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On August 08 2013 06:50 JaKaTaK wrote:
Ghost vs Raven
I think that both must be controlled individually. The question is which one is better controlled indiviudally by a control group and which one is better controlled by ctrl clicking or individually clicking on the unit to select it manually overall.
Then I say ravens should be ctrl-clicked while ghosts get their own group.
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I've just took a quick look at the new German PRM Layout. The keys for Hold Position (K -> 8) and Stop (8 -> M) have changed in the file. Is this just a mistake, because I also can't find this in the archive document? I really got used the K-Key for Hold Position and don't want to give it up.
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@The / (Z) key
On August 08 2013 06:50 JaKaTaK wrote:
This key cannot be used as a CG or as a camera because you have to use modifiers to set it. It could be used as an alternate recall, or if it is set with a different key combination it could be used to recall CG/cam but it can't be an all-in one button. I think it is a good decision to not used this key for anything that is used in repetition or with modifiers. I am less sure if we should exclude it from commands that operate with the key held down (like making zerglings). What do you all think? Finding a separate key to create and add to the CG/Camera is not really an issue. For non-Zerg layouts K|F can be used for both CGs, Free Cams, and centered cams, and it has the same combined keyscore as /|Z. Zerg layouts can use K|F for everything but centered cameras. In that case the recall button can just be changed to /|Z on whatever camera is changed (assuming we don't mess with free cams and creep spread).
@0.8 non-Zerg cameras
I really think Cam 6 (last centered camera) should be 9|4 instead of 0|3. 9|4's combined keyscore is 3, 0|3's score is 4.
Edit
@Bunker Unload -> Salvage finger repetition
On August 01 2013 02:10 JaKaTaK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:39 Beedebdoo wrote:
For me, it's not uncommon to Unload a Bunker, followed by a Salvage. They're both pressed by the same finger, which is not ideal. H is free. Thoughts? Nice catch on the bunker combo, we can absolutely streamline that for 0.8 :D Salvage is still K|F. Now in 0.8 it can be swapped with Stim, unless the holding down /|Z is too problematic (1 Salvage while selecting multiple Bunker = 1 of them is salvaged). If it is, then H is still the best choice, assuming the finger repetition occur often enough for K to be worse than H.
Edit2
@0.8 High Templar Feedback bug?
On my Nordic 0.8 TRM, Feedback is bound to H instead of the rapid fire key K. I don't think that is intentional.
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On August 08 2013 08:56 JaKaTaK wrote:
MothershipCore - conflict of abilities
Yeah... both Overcharge and Time Warp are on H.
Wait a sec, Ctrl+Alt+_ for camera keys? How am I even supposed to use Ctrl+Alt o_o
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Did u maybe download the german layout version? as on german keyboard the right Alt key is Alt Gr which is Alt+Ctrl. If not maybe the script messed up the layouts? As im quite sure alt+ctrl is not supposed to exist on the US layout.
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Yay! Nice to see less abilities being activated with the thumb and the medis and ghosts going back to a hybrid with older versions of the Core.
Here is a HUGE NO NO: Stim is assigned to the same key as lift buildings. I assume i dont even need to explain why this is a terrible idea. Do you even lift brah  ?
Is the K key actually faster to press than I ? I feel like Mediboost should have priority over unload. Meaning I should be boost while k is unload (I think version 6.3 had this and so far it has been my favourite way).
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I have no idea how I would accidentally download the German version. But I did download UK Qwerty, which isn't supposed to have any substantial differences on Medium anyways. So it seems like I've stumbled across a problem.
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On August 08 2013 20:23 Slashiepie wrote:
Is the K key actually faster to press than I ? I feel like Mediboost should have priority over unload. Meaning I should be boost while k is unload (I think version 6.3 had this and so far it has been my favourite way).
Changing Unload for Medivac affects Unload for Bunker simultaneously. If Unload were to be set to K, then Salvage would be set to I. Or alternatively Stim could be set to I and Salvage to Slash. Not quite sure how I feel about that one.
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On August 08 2013 20:34 Antylamon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 20:23 Slashiepie wrote:
Is the K key actually faster to press than I ? I feel like Mediboost should have priority over unload. Meaning I should be boost while k is unload (I think version 6.3 had this and so far it has been my favourite way).
Changing Unload for Medivac affects Unload for Bunker simultaneously. If Unload were to be set to K, then Salvage would be set to I. Or alternatively Stim could be set to I and Salvage to Slash. Not quite sure how I feel about that one.
What i just did is change Stim back to I and - to salvage 
K stays as unload for Medi and Bunker, Medis keep their boost on I.
I think i never liked Stim on - either, after months of using both variants I just feels so much better.
Are my fingers the only ones that think (boost unload) with I+K is a little bit faster than K+I.
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On August 08 2013 20:49 Slashiepie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 20:34 Antylamon wrote:On August 08 2013 20:23 Slashiepie wrote:
Is the K key actually faster to press than I ? I feel like Mediboost should have priority over unload. Meaning I should be boost while k is unload (I think version 6.3 had this and so far it has been my favourite way).
Changing Unload for Medivac affects Unload for Bunker simultaneously. If Unload were to be set to K, then Salvage would be set to I. Or alternatively Stim could be set to I and Salvage to Slash. Not quite sure how I feel about that one. What i just did is change Stim back to I and - to salvage K stays as unload for Medi and Bunker, Medis keep their boost on I. I think i never liked Stim on - either, after months of using both variants I just feels so much better. Are my fingers the only ones that think (boost unload) with I+K is a little bit faster than K+I.
Why was Stim on Dash for you? Isn't it supposed to be Slash?
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On August 08 2013 21:06 Antylamon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 20:49 Slashiepie wrote:On August 08 2013 20:34 Antylamon wrote:On August 08 2013 20:23 Slashiepie wrote:
Is the K key actually faster to press than I ? I feel like Mediboost should have priority over unload. Meaning I should be boost while k is unload (I think version 6.3 had this and so far it has been my favourite way).
Changing Unload for Medivac affects Unload for Bunker simultaneously. If Unload were to be set to K, then Salvage would be set to I. Or alternatively Stim could be set to I and Salvage to Slash. Not quite sure how I feel about that one. What i just did is change Stim back to I and - to salvage K stays as unload for Medi and Bunker, Medis keep their boost on I. I think i never liked Stim on - either, after months of using both variants I just feels so much better. Are my fingers the only ones that think (boost unload) with I+K is a little bit faster than K+I. Why was Stim on Dash for you? Isn't it supposed to be Slash?
Oh forgot to mention i have the german Layout
So replace my - with /
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On August 08 2013 20:24 Antylamon wrote:
I have no idea how I would accidentally download the German version. But I did download UK Qwerty, which isn't supposed to have any substantial differences on Medium anyways. So it seems like I've stumbled across a problem.
UK Qwerty keyboards have an Alt-Gr key on the right side, which registers as Control+Alt in SC2.
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glad to hear 0.8 is near 
waiting for changelog/refsheet and video
Edit
Wait a sec, Ctrl+Alt+_ for camera keys? How am I even supposed to use Ctrl+Alt o_o
Yah, and this? O_O
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On August 08 2013 22:15 MoonFan wrote:glad to hear 0.8 is near waiting for changelog/refsheet and video Edit Show nested quote +Wait a sec, Ctrl+Alt+_ for camera keys? How am I even supposed to use Ctrl+Alt o_o Yah, and this? O_O
Okay, we need an FAQ for this. For right-handed layouts on many non-USQwerty keyboards, instead of having a right alt key, there is an Alt-Gr key. Alt-Gr registers as Control+Alt in SC2.
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@Lift and Stim on /
On August 08 2013 20:23 Slashiepie wrote:Here is a HUGE NO NO: Stim is assigned to the same key as lift buildings. I assume i dont even need to explain why this is a terrible idea. Do you even lift brah ? Could you explain it anyway? I don't understand why that would be a problem.
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Ok. I took a deeper look at the 0.8. file. A lot more keys have changed, not only STOP and HOLD. Camera location now 0 and ß instead 0 and 9. And many key abilities, Zealot K, Stalker J, Chronoboost H .... First I thought maybe K should be rapidfire now. But there is no entry at Choose Ability target. And also Templar Feedback is not on K now, that's what I would have expected for rapidfire.
I better wait for the explanation videos At the moment I stay with the 7.0.2 layout. It would be really nice, if the Key Conflict Messages can be solved for 7.0.2.
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On August 08 2013 23:25 Beedebdoo wrote:@Lift and Stim on /Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 20:23 Slashiepie wrote:Here is a HUGE NO NO: Stim is assigned to the same key as lift buildings. I assume i dont even need to explain why this is a terrible idea. Do you even lift brah ? Could you explain it anyway? I don't understand why that would be a problem.
During intensive fights you are usually stimming your army or chunks of it, and trying to produce as quickly as you can, one missed stroke and voila all your raxes are happily flying :/.
We know this should not happen, but why leave the probability there? We can take away one possible mistake without giving away anything. e.g: Lift on ",".
This is analog to the the cancel button, it is not extremely reachable and close to other keys for such reasons ( i assume )
I vote for protoss rapidfireto be be a-move! I would also love to have all other commands replaced to move and attack, the rest of the keys could be mapped to storm. I do not feel i need anything else when playing as toss! Trollface*
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EPT
