Hello Team Liquid, recently there was a discussion about a build uses by ST_Parting in the GSL against Terran. You can find the discussion here: -klick to get to the forumthread-
I have found that buildorder very interesting, and gave it my own little adjustments to make it slightly better (in my opinion) than the buildorder in the discussion, furthermore i am going to describe how to react to your scouting information. I am a mid Master Protoss playing rarley ladder, mostly tournaments and custom games on EU Server.
This guide is more about the opening, you will not find a buildorder till 10 Minutes, just the reactions you need to make to your scouting. If you get into the midgame you can transition out of that buildorder like you want, its more about holding the early rushes.
Thanks to Naniwa (or Parting) who invented this awesome build
A) The buildorder and important notes 9 - Pylo Chronoboost Chronoboost 13 - Gate | Send probe to scout Chronoboost 17 - Gas Rally 17th Probe to your Nexus, it arrives when you have 400 Minerals, after that probecut. 17 - Nexus 17 - Pylon 17 - Core Resume probe production 18 - Zealot 21 - Stalker Dont make a pylon for the 26/26 supply block, your nexus finishes in time if executed perfectly
-The Buildorder gives you 100 Gas when the Core+Zealot finished -You use the supply of the 2nd nexus
-Position your 2nd Pylo on the highground in your main, close to the nexus, so you are able to warp in stuff at your nexus and the pylon does not get sniped if the terran is rushing you
B) Follow ups after scouting You scout terran is at no gas: If you dont see an indication for a marine all in be happy and use your advantage. Chronoboost your probes nonstop since the only really scary timing will be around the 9:30-10 Minutes where the 2 Medivac push will arive. But be sure to poke with your first Stalker to see if a 4 rax or something is incoming after the expansion. In the buildorder you should not cut probes to get your 2 additional gates, if you have them up get out the robo for an observer and if you want fast colossi tech (my favorite follow up). Summary: Poke with Stalkers to see expansion, if yes - CHRONOBOOST YOUR PROBES !
You scout terran has gas OR you were not able to scout Since you can't get any further scouting information of the terran and you dont know if its a 1 rax reactor expand, a 2 rax or a banshee play be sure to get 2 additional gates at the 5 minute mark. Chronoboost your warptech 3 times and it will be finished if the gates are ready. With these 3 gates you are able to defend a 2 rax and the 3 helion 7 marine drop. If you want to be save get an 4th Gate, BUT be sure to have your latest robotics at 6:20 so you have observers in time for a cloake banshee. Summary: chronoboost warptech 3 times 5:00 - 2 more Gates <6:20 - Robotics for Observer
If you scout something proxy-ish Cut probes and get a early 2nd Gate (around 4:10) like in my replays vs. TheBigOne. Use all your additional chronoboost on chronoboosting units rather than warptech. You can also chronoboost your zealot and chronoboost a 2nd after that, instead of the stalker
Always scout with one probe at your expansion for bunkers. In an early engagement focusfire the scv that is building a bunker with your stalkers. If necessary you can even sacrafice your expansion against an all in - nothing new
C) Buildorder eco comparison Nexus First(P) > CC First(T) > Parting FE(P) > Gasless FE(T) > 1 Gate FE
D) Weakness - counters - 11 / 11 Proxyrax Marine SCV Train Allin - Reaper Opening, the fastest played reaper should arive around 12 seconds earlier than your first stalker. But with good micro the zealot will delay him and you should be fine - Blind expansionblocks (depot/ebay) - Good Terrans who scout your late gas will immediately block your expand
-> i would not recommend to play this build more than once in a best of series, and i also would not reccomend to play it versus goody because he counters you twice, blindly !
E) Replays double reactor factory Helion Marauder Allin - vs. BigOne (TLO's Brother) Game 1 http://drop.sc/189583 Proxy Factory Proxy Rax Marine Marauder Helion Allin - vs. BigOne (TLO's Brother) Game 2 http://drop.sc/189582 Depotblock into 2 Rax (one proxy) Marauders - vs. NoxOut http://drop.sc/189585 -> Good example for the fact how even a short block can throw your build off and makes you voulnerable ; also shows that good players might punish you if they scout
F) Feedback I would like to have some feedback for the guide. Is there something missing in your opinion just tell me. Have you tried it out and found other weaknesses or a better execution?
Been thinking about messing around with protoss tonight. Definitely going to try this when I get home and ladder! Great build for a noob like me, thanks!
I do this on ladder as my standard PvT opening. The only issue I've really had with it waas against marine/scv allin (it's holdable, but you really need your 2 stalkers in the correct position to kite and you need to execute your BO well to have the proper amount of units).
Also, any ideas on how to adjust on if they scout early and block your 17 nexus with an engineering bay or something?
I usually do 3 chrono's on probes, 1 on the gateway and the rest on WG. I usually only get 2 gateways and a robo unless I scout an expansion or a marauder/reaper. I like to get 2 observers out asap so I can send the first one accross the map and still have a 2nd one in time for cloasked bancheese.
In my PvT, I like to use Parting's other 1 Gate FE, the one where he gets a core before Nexus. Its safer and more flexible, and still puts you in a better position economically than MC's by a lottle. The openimg BO, in case anyone's interested:
great build, really important to scout with it though.
it's really easy to get bunkered with marine+ scvs pulls at your nat. If I can't scout his expansion, I usually always rush to 3 gates and all chronos on WG as it's really the only way to hold your expo vs these aggressive builds. You get such an econ from the early nexus though that building these 2-3 additional gates really quickly is quite easy due to the influx of minerals.
On June 02 2012 03:36 Complete wrote: Also, any ideas on how to adjust on if they scout early and block your 17 nexus with an engineering bay or something
what I do is send a probe to my nat slightly earlier and hide it behind the minerals, never have gotten engi blocked this way unless he blindly blocks it w/out scouting (rare).
I may be wrong but I only ever see PartinG do this on Cloud Kingdom, Metropolis, and Daybreak.
Also he scouts after 2nd pylon, and positions it infront of his nexus so he can spot any bunker pressure (if there is he reacts by chrono'ing his first zealot).
Sadly I have never seen this vs a 2rax proxy though I'm pretty convinced this wouldn't hold.
tried this build tonight on the ladder in my PvT's. I've been trying to do the parting style day9 described, but i' finding the daily was a little sketchy with the follow ups to the 8-9 minute push.
anywho, back on topic, i love the early nexus. it normally goes down before i get scouted and i imagine it looks like a nexus first... until he sees a finished gate in the main. My main question is the gas timing. "17 supply" seems way too general. should it be built as soon as i hit 17 supply then immediately 3 guys when finished?
i tried a couple different ways and i ended up either coming short or having too much gas most of the time (for wg and stalker).
i imagine the proper timing would be to have the assimilator finish just as the nexus is going down?
would it be worth it to get a gas on 15--rather than 17, and just delay the mining by a little, so that the Terran thinks it's a normal 1 gate FE and doesn't try to block the expansion?
On June 02 2012 13:29 McTeazy wrote: tried this build tonight on the ladder in my PvT's. I've been trying to do the parting style day9 described, but i' finding the daily was a little sketchy with the follow ups to the 8-9 minute push.
anywho, back on topic, i love the early nexus. it normally goes down before i get scouted and i imagine it looks like a nexus first... until he sees a finished gate in the main. My main question is the gas timing. "17 supply" seems way too general. should it be built as soon as i hit 17 supply then immediately 3 guys when finished?
i tried a couple different ways and i ended up either coming short or having too much gas most of the time (for wg and stalker).
i imagine the proper timing would be to have the assimilator finish just as the nexus is going down?
when someone says build something on 17supply, it means as soon as you hit 17 supply AND you can afford it, build it. you will obviously have more than 75minerals so on 16 just rally that probe to the geyser such that when you are at 17 supply you immediately build the assimilator. then re-rally your nexus to your nat and you will have 400minerals when your probe gets there. yes, the timing is pretty much when your nexus finishes, which is really annoying because i'm always spamming "e" to build my 2nd pylon asap but i have to put guys on gas too.
On June 02 2012 13:51 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote: would it be worth it to get a gas on 15--rather than 17, and just delay the mining by a little, so that the Terran thinks it's a normal 1 gate FE and doesn't try to block the expansion?
in my experience terrans never scout me that early =/ but i guess you could, and maybe only put 2 guys on gas and only go up to 3 after the probe cut? just a thought
I think he only does this version on 4p maps; I have a lot of his replays and study his PvT ste and on 2p maps he tends to use the variation I posted up - gets a Nexus at 24 instead of 17, but when he plops it down his core is already donr and he's on 2 gas and can go Robo ASAP, so its a lot safer. Probably what he uses when he feels the other guy might cheese or isnt familiar with his opponent - it deals witu the 1-1-1 fantastically well. But against gasless FE Terrans, the version the OP explained is far superior, economically speaking.
Do you have any replays of this build facing a 1 rax concussive shell expand with a few pulled scvs? I find it too difficult to defend without getting too far behind economically because if the bunker goes up then the nexus dies...
I watched the BigOne Daybreak replay in hopes of getting some inspiration but his 2nd rax was extremely late, he never had concussive, and finally decided to go up your ramp for absolutely no reason AFTER a bunker was complete.
PartinG rally's his probe from nexus to gate on 14 supply. You cant 13gate without either cutting probes a bit, loosing some chrono, or pulling a probe from minerals, and the gate timing is not super crucial. I like the idea of never pulling probes from minerals, it allows you to benefit a lot more from good stacking, etc.
I believe he also nexus-pylon-scouts, i personally disagree with gate scout, opting for either pylon scout (nexus first, 1gateFE so you can be more greedy or safe/sure) or nexus scout (something like this)
On June 02 2012 23:49 Cyro wrote: PartinG rally's his probe from nexus to gate on 14 supply. You cant 13gate without either cutting probes a bit, loosing some chrono, or pulling a probe from minerals, and the gate timing is not super crucial. I like the idea of never pulling probes from minerals, it allows you to benefit a lot more from good stacking, etc.
I believe he also nexus-pylon-scouts, i personally disagree with gate scout, opting for either pylon scout (nexus first, 1gateFE so you can be more greedy or safe/sure) or nexus scout (something like this)
you can 13 gate without a probe cut or loss of chrono.
On June 02 2012 23:23 whistle wrote: Do you have any replays of this build facing a 1 rax concussive shell expand with a few pulled scvs? I find it too difficult to defend without getting too far behind economically because if the bunker goes up then the nexus dies...
I watched the BigOne Daybreak replay in hopes of getting some inspiration but his 2nd rax was extremely late, he never had concussive, and finally decided to go up your ramp for absolutely no reason AFTER a bunker was complete.
Yes the replay vs. Noxout is a Concussive Shell Opening, but i missread the opening and also get blocked for a bit. So i did many mistakes there and i think i could hold it with good micro, i trained that with a teammate and i did hold every 2 rax all ins he throw at me besides the 11 11 rax marine scv all in (and other scv all ins)
On June 02 2012 13:51 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote: would it be worth it to get a gas on 15--rather than 17, and just delay the mining by a little, so that the Terran thinks it's a normal 1 gate FE and doesn't try to block the expansion?
I think you might as well. You have the minerals to build it at 15 supply anyway. I'm not sure when the gas finishes in the OPs build, but I guess you can just start mining from the gas after you put down the Nexus or the 2nd pylon?
I assume the gas timing works out the same as the original parting build.
Your gas finishes right after you place your nexus and 2nd pylon so you get full 16 workers on mineral efficiency until you're about to place your core. Then you mine with 2 on gas and and the 3rd goes in after it builds the core.
I've been doing it for almost a month and it is an awesome build, but I place the second pilon on front of my second nexus which allowa me to see bunker rush.
I've been doing it for almost a month and it is an awesome build, but I place the second pilon on front of my second nexus which allowa me to see bunker rush.
This also makes you voulnerable to any kind of early pressure because it gets easily sniped and you are supplyblocked when you cant afford it.
PartinG rally's his probe from nexus to gate on 14 supply. You cant 13gate without either cutting probes a bit, loosing some chrono, or pulling a probe from minerals, and the gate timing is not super crucial. I like the idea of never pulling probes from minerals, it allows you to benefit a lot more from good stacking, etc.
I believe he also nexus-pylon-scouts, i personally disagree with gate scout, opting for either pylon scout (nexus first, 1gateFE so you can be more greedy or safe/sure) or nexus scout (something like this)
I know how he is doing it, like i said i edited the build a bit for what seems to me better. I dont like 17 scout because you will never be able to scout then, 17 scout is in my opinion like no scout. With a 13 scout you have a chance to scout the base and even scout if there is gas taken. If you pylon scout your nexus will not get up with the 17th probe out of the nexus which makes you voulnerable to ebayblocks if you can't get it immediatly
On June 02 2012 23:49 Cyro wrote: PartinG rally's his probe from nexus to gate on 14 supply. You cant 13gate without either cutting probes a bit, loosing some chrono, or pulling a probe from minerals, and the gate timing is not super crucial. I like the idea of never pulling probes from minerals, it allows you to benefit a lot more from good stacking, etc.
I believe he also nexus-pylon-scouts, i personally disagree with gate scout, opting for either pylon scout (nexus first, 1gateFE so you can be more greedy or safe/sure) or nexus scout (something like this)
you can definately 13 gate without cutting probes as long as you don't scout beforehand.
Just held an agressive 2 rax with marine marauder and half his scvs. I delayed by pulling all probes from my natural and attacking with my units saving my stalkers from his units so I could warp in since warp was just finished when I lost my probes in the natural. Reinforcing with zealots saved me.
I now don't really fear any terran build since I also held of a reaper attack well enough to stay ahead in a different game.
You get units early enough, fast warp tech, and a quick expansion giving you extra chronoboost. Why is this not the standard 1 gate expand?
On June 04 2012 19:12 Sated wrote: How does this compare with HuK's 20food FE because it seems to have the exact same problems: both builds are really easy to scout and both builds are really easy to screw over with an Engineering Bay or Supply Depot block... but at least with HuK's opening you can fake building a Zealot to try and hide what you're doing.
Another thing that HuK's build lets you do is pressure with 5 Stalkers at more or less the same time a 4gate would hit, a push that can actually win you games if the opponent is trying to be too greedy. This build doesn't give you any opportunity to put pressure on.
So this build isn't as safe and doesn't let you pressure, so I guess what I'm asking is just how large the economic advantage of doing this build is? Because as far as I can see, this build looks a lot less safe that HuK's opening for what seems like a minimal gain in economy.
I feel that getting your nexus up faster lets you chrono out units faster. I go up to 2 gates double gas chronoing out units non stop while getting a robo and 2extra gates. This allows for nice immortal busts or quick tech. i also hold 2 rax's.
I'm starting to think that 2 gasless rax is a BO loss. There doesn't seem to be any way to stop bunkers going up from a terran that knows what he's doing. Does anyone have any experience stopping it?
how does this fare against 4 rax marine scv all-in? when the terran spots this, can't they just wall-off preventing you from scouting him going gasless then making 3 additional rax then all-ining you. will you have enough units to stop this?
On June 06 2012 11:13 Pobbes wrote: how does this fare against 4 rax marine scv all-in? when the terran spots this, can't they just wall-off preventing you from scouting him going gasless then making 3 additional rax then all-ining you. will you have enough units to stop this?
Like posted above, if you dont get any scouting information you go up to at least 3 gates to hold a 2 rax. With these 3 Gates you can easily hold a 4 rax marine all in with good micro and its no difference in that regard in comparison to a 24-30 Nexus.
On June 06 2012 11:13 Pobbes wrote: how does this fare against 4 rax marine scv all-in? when the terran spots this, can't they just wall-off preventing you from scouting him going gasless then making 3 additional rax then all-ining you. will you have enough units to stop this?
I just had this exact situation about 10 minutes ago, i didn't do anything special to hold it. When my probe scout was denied i started thinking "marine scv all in" or "banshee". So went up to 3 gates. Then when my zealot/stalker poke saw lots of marines and no combat shield it basically confirmed it. Held the watch tower so i saw when it was on the way and i got a slight delay with 1 forcefield. When it arrived just pulled all the probes on my natural and engaged with my units. I probabaly could have held it better if i didnt take the other gasses and robo (which i didnt use) and made a 4th gate. But im still a paranoid panda, while i was pretty sure it was a marine scv all in a little voice at the back of my head kept saying "Bansheeeee".
Btw i always transfer 6 probes when my natural finishes. With the parting opening and constant probe production you end up "efficiently" saturated (16 on minerals 6 on gas) on your main around the 8 ish minute mark (depending on chronos and constant production).
I'm fairly curious as to how this build isn't just strictly worse than 15 nexus. What Terran attacks can you hold with this build that you can't with 15 nexus? 2 rax or marine/scv allin will hit before warpgates is finished against both builds.
I'm having a lot of trouble with this with bunker aggression at my natural. Terran typically goes 1rax no gas FE but streams marines to my natural. What's the best way to counteract this?
I've gone 11-3 with this builld I take my 2nd gas at 25/26 followed by a robo after building Zealot, stalker, zealot warping in 2 sentries when warpgate finishes and building 2 extra gates.
I would encourage every terran to 2rax me since I pull all probes from my natural and win the fight every single time. I then follow up with a sick immortal bust with lots of sentries off of 6 gates and proxy pylons along the route to his base.
The only times I've lost were against weird stuff like marine tank or mistakes from my side.
On June 02 2012 08:54 Masvidal wrote: In my PvT, I like to use Parting's other 1 Gate FE, the one where he gets a core before Nexus. Its safer and more flexible, and still puts you in a better position economically than MC's by a lottle. The openimg BO, in case anyone's interested:
Hey guys, today i lost a game using this build the opponent did a good push what do you guys can suggest me for defense for a push like this, should i change the bo ?
Assuming you have good skill whatever, can u use this build against all terran opening ? I do this in case of gasless expand from the terran but i'm scared of doin' this against gas expand.
On June 23 2012 22:07 Serge89 wrote: Assuming you have good skill whatever, can u use this build against all terran opening ? I do this in case of gasless expand from the terran but i'm scared of doin' this against gas expand.
I just started doing it, but 2 rax is easily holdable if you add 2 gw at 5 min and chronoboost wg instead of probes. Otherwise you just have to scout for proxies and stuff, I died to proxied factory and starport producing cloakshees and hellions TT proxies are silly
On June 04 2012 19:12 Sated wrote: How does this compare with HuK's 20food FE because it seems to have the exact same problems: both builds are really easy to scout and both builds are really easy to screw over with an Engineering Bay or Supply Depot block... but at least with HuK's opening you can fake building a Zealot to try and hide what you're doing.
Another thing that HuK's build lets you do is pressure with 5 Stalkers at more or less the same time a 4gate would hit, a push that can actually win you games if the opponent is trying to be too greedy. This build doesn't give you any opportunity to put pressure on.
So this build isn't as safe and doesn't let you pressure, so I guess what I'm asking is just how large the economic advantage of doing this build is? Because as far as I can see, this build looks a lot less safe that HuK's opening for what seems like a minimal gain in economy.
The nexus in this build is fast enough that most terran scouts don't get to you until the nexus is started, whereas the 20 food nexus is substantially later (pylon, core, 3 more probes before nexus).
I go 13 GW, scout, 15 Assim (don't add to gas - to keep T honest) go to 16 Probes, rally that Probe to my natural. By the time it gets to the natural, you should have 350 mins. Hide the Probe as necessary so you can instantly make the Nexus so that it can't be blocked. Cue a Zealot, add 2 Probes to gas, the probe that built the Nexus builds a Cyber Core, then is added to gas.
Get 18 Pylon ASAP. As the Pylon finishes you have 100 gas and enough money to cue a Stalker, WG and a Probe, Chronoing the Stalker and WG.
I like this build, it can't be blocked/exploited and it's safe vs. Bunkers etc.
On June 26 2012 06:34 AlphaDotCom wrote: Pretty sure u can't hold proxy 2 rax with this any thoughts on 11 scout so you can check for proxies and go to normal build from this?
There's only so much you can give way for builds like that. A proxy 2 Rax on a 2 player map? I guess just use your 13 probe scout to scour the map if something seems amiss in the Terran's main. The build can hold a 2 Rax np if you drop your Gates before 5 mins (requires a probe cut - only necessary if you see gas/Reactored Rax). You can have a Sentry, 2 Stalkers and a Zealot, with 6:05 Warp-ins, which is plenty good to stop a 2 Rax, even if it's SCV heavy.The Sentry can be especially handy, to Forcefield by the Bunker placement.
On June 26 2012 06:34 AlphaDotCom wrote: Pretty sure u can't hold proxy 2 rax with this any thoughts on 11 scout so you can check for proxies and go to normal build from this?
There's only so much you can give way for builds like that. A proxy 2 Rax on a 2 player map? I guess just use your 13 probe scout to scour the map if something seems amiss in the Terran's main. The build can hold a 2 Rax np if you drop your Gates before 5 mins (requires a probe cut - only necessary if you see gas/Reactored Rax). You can have a Sentry, 2 Stalkers and a Zealot, with 6:05 Warp-ins, which is plenty good to stop a 2 Rax, even if it's SCV heavy.The Sentry can be especially handy, to Forcefield by the Bunker placement.
To clarify I mean proxy 11 11 rax marine scv. On 2 player map if you 13 scout and realize something is wrong when you reach terran base its too late to react
On June 26 2012 06:34 AlphaDotCom wrote: Pretty sure u can't hold proxy 2 rax with this any thoughts on 11 scout so you can check for proxies and go to normal build from this?
There's only so much you can give way for builds like that. A proxy 2 Rax on a 2 player map? I guess just use your 13 probe scout to scour the map if something seems amiss in the Terran's main. The build can hold a 2 Rax np if you drop your Gates before 5 mins (requires a probe cut - only necessary if you see gas/Reactored Rax). You can have a Sentry, 2 Stalkers and a Zealot, with 6:05 Warp-ins, which is plenty good to stop a 2 Rax, even if it's SCV heavy.The Sentry can be especially handy, to Forcefield by the Bunker placement.
To clarify I mean proxy 11 11 rax marine scv. On 2 player map if you 13 scout and realize something is wrong when you reach terran base its too late to react
Oh, well I always scout in obvious locations on my way to the T base on 2 player maps, without going too much out of my way. (I want to get in the Terran's main). Apart from that, there's not much you can do, apart from chronoing Stalkers from 2 Gates. You'd have to tank a lot on the Nexus, and give it up if they really commit (Bunkers and SCVs). I don't think it's a total BO loss, but it would be very hard to hold.
just played 1n1 on antiga and tried to play this i did this strat - T instant scouted me and saw late gas and fe - he walled so i couldnt scout (i did the 5 minute +2 gate thing so i'd be save) but then he allined with scv train out of 4 rax :/ i couldnt scout him - first i went to the wrong startposition and then he was walled in
ofc i can outmicro the marines with stalkers - but it gets kinda hard when i got like 3-4 vs 15 rines and some scv
any advice? maybe if i see him scout that early i should build nexus and cancle after he leaves with scout-scv and follow up with 3gate robo and then expo? dont know
I do this build but scout after i made nexus + 2nd pylon. Get your probe in from tricky angle to opponents natural and scout if he makes gasless FE. This variant is very good in the current metagame.
On June 26 2012 06:34 AlphaDotCom wrote: Pretty sure u can't hold proxy 2 rax with this any thoughts on 11 scout so you can check for proxies and go to normal build from this?
If you throw down your gas at 14 but dont mine from it and then react if you have scouted the terran and instead of throwing down the expansion saturate your gas, get a zealot, one more gate and a core you might be able to hold an 11/11 rax all in. But its hard enough to hold that with a "normal" 1g expand
On June 26 2012 20:18 aTo wrote: just played 1n1 on antiga and tried to play this i did this strat - T instant scouted me and saw late gas and fe - he walled so i couldnt scout (i did the 5 minute +2 gate thing so i'd be save) but then he allined with scv train out of 4 rax :/ i couldnt scout him - first i went to the wrong startposition and then he was walled in
ofc i can outmicro the marines with stalkers - but it gets kinda hard when i got like 3-4 vs 15 rines and some scv
any advice? maybe if i see him scout that early i should build nexus and cancle after he leaves with scout-scv and follow up with 3gate robo and then expo? dont know
Don't get a late gas - get the Gate and Gas at standard timings. You'll have the Nexus down before the Terran realises you start mining late from it. If you 13 scout, you should get in most times on a 2 player map. If you can't get in, you need to hold the watchtower, and sac probes at the ramp to scout his unit composition.
Make sure you know when moves out of his base, and with what.
I'm really interested in this variation - if anyone else has replays to upload I'd really appreciate seeing them - especially replays that include playing against the gasless expand that is so popular at the moment.
you can do a sick 6gate using this opening, learned it from tails, but the problem with this build is if they scout early or if they proxy rax your so fucked
On June 28 2012 08:49 thoughtless_1 wrote: I'm really interested in this variation - if anyone else has replays to upload I'd really appreciate seeing them - especially replays that include playing against the gasless expand that is so popular at the moment.
i will upload some if i have the time for that, thanks for your interest.
On July 01 2012 14:34 P7GAB wrote: you can do a sick 6gate using this opening, learned it from tails, but the problem with this build is if they scout early or if they proxy rax your so fucked
any vods or replays of tails executing a 6 gate from this build?
Any updates on this? I do it all the time but recently EVERY Terran has been 11/11 rax scv all-inning me. Wtf am I supposed to do to that? Just GG out? Is this an obsolete build already?
Different builds yo. Double expand takes the third before pressuring (if at all), rather than going pressure --> third. You hit at different timings (between 7 and 8.30 as opposed to 9.30 ish).
This build is a good way to go about 3 nex -> mass gateway units because that build is designed to be extremely effective mostly vs only bio (no 1-2base techy stuff), and on huge maps, while an opening like this is designed to give you a bigger econ to not fall behind vs 1rax fe or 15 cc like you would with a safer 1gate fe. You are not safe vs all sorts of timings and rushes, but if you are playing say on Atlantis Spaceship it's actually fine, and a map like that is also extremely good for a fast third build off only one gate, which is what Salient was asking about.
That said, any 1gate fe or nexus first variation that stays on a single gas works fine if you want to double expand.
Would really like to see a replay vs. gasless expand. It's so popular nowdays and it'd be interesting to see how this build fares in comparison to the many other builds which almost all get nexus after 17 (with the exception of the 15 nexus...which I see axslav do often?)
On September 08 2012 17:03 Ea wrote: Would really like to see a replay vs. gasless expand. It's so popular nowdays and it'd be interesting to see how this build fares in comparison to the many other builds which almost all get nexus after 17 (with the exception of the 15 nexus...which I see axslav do often?)
Like mentioned above, you will be ahead because terran can't put any pressure on to you and you have so much chronoboosts for probes. Just play it yourself then you have a replay for it.
I want to look at VODS of this strategy. THe OP claims it is copied from Startale Parting but no VODs are provided. this is a problem in my opinion. if you want to copy a pro, gotta make sure you're doing it right. A good way is to provide references to your information. thanks.
edit: sorry! being lazy, i did not look at the original discussion which has the VODs. thanks for the guide. i'll be testing it out.
Do you have any replays of you going up against standard play, like a gasless FE? The part I"m having the most trouble with is after you have 3 gates; i.e., your 2nd and 3rd gas timings and robo timing. I'd really like to see how you follow up your expansion. Thanks in advance! Already loving how well the first 5-6 minutes are flowing.
On June 02 2012 08:54 Masvidal wrote: In my PvT, I like to use Parting's other 1 Gate FE, the one where he gets a core before Nexus. Its safer and more flexible, and still puts you in a better position economically than MC's by a lottle. The openimg BO, in case anyone's interested:
I personnally think this is a great build to keep in mind, specially on 4 player maps, if he scouts you late and you can sneak a probes down to put your nexus up, usually you will be able to get away with it. But the biggest probleme against a good opponent is the e-bay block, because you have no unit while trying to expand.
On October 15 2012 22:53 HellRush wrote: I personnally think this is a great build to keep in mind, specially on 4 player maps, if he scouts you late and you can sneak a probes down to put your nexus up, usually you will be able to get away with it. But the biggest probleme against a good opponent is the e-bay block, because you have no unit while trying to expand.
Just something to keep in mind.
To combat this, espceically on 2 player maps, where the scout might sniff what you're up to in time, I like get the gas at the normal timing. I don't add probes to it, though. I stop at 16 probes, I then drop a nexus. I skip the Zealot if he's one rax FEing and continue probe production. I then drop a Core and add probes to gas.
Been using this opener as my go to the last couple of months. Very economical and can still hold most all-ins . knowing the nexus timing to skip a pylon actually hugely pays off in that phase of the game.
It is hard countered by proxy hellions (where they go on 2 and pull SCV's) though. The only way I see someone holding this is by seeing it coming (somehow) and triple pylon blocking the ramp. Was costuming with some random barcode GM and this was his solution anyways.
On October 17 2012 22:13 Nikoras wrote: Been using this opener as my go to the last couple of months. Very economical and can still hold most all-ins . knowing the nexus timing to skip a pylon actually hugely pays off in that phase of the game.
It is hard countered by proxy hellions (where they go on 2 and pull SCV's) though. The only way I see someone holding this is by seeing it coming (somehow) and triple pylon blocking the ramp. Was costuming with some random barcode GM and this was his solution anyways.
Is it? When you scout his one base, you should immediately Stalker scout the close proxy locations. When I scout one base, I get some Stalkers out ASAP and drop a second Gate, adding a third later on.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img7.imagebanana.com/img/93w9zb70/ifpresents.png)
