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Phoenix heavy PvP replay pack - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
March 19 2012 15:43 GMT
#21
Sweet! Phoenix PvP is my favorite style but I find myself losing too much to certain types of pressure. I'm sure this replay pack will be a great reference, thanks!
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
March 19 2012 16:06 GMT
#22
On March 20 2012 00:43 TangSC wrote:
Sweet! Phoenix PvP is my favorite style but I find myself losing too much to certain types of pressure. I'm sure this replay pack will be a great reference, thanks!

what kind of pressure? off one base or 2? i think i've just about seen them all at this point haha
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
March 19 2012 16:23 GMT
#23
On March 20 2012 00:34 RaiD.RaynoR wrote:
is it wrong that I go 1 base double forge with 3 gate push? I win 65 percent of my pvps this way in masters.


1base double forge with only 3gates and no tech? Yeah it makes no sense whatsoever. Replays?
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
March 19 2012 16:50 GMT
#24
well idk you can do a lot of wonky things in masters 4v4
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Ryndika
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1489 Posts
March 19 2012 17:02 GMT
#25
On March 19 2012 12:51 Alejandrisha wrote:

It seems to be good against everything except blink expands that play very passively-- against expansions, you can almost always kill enough probes to compensate for your later expansion. When your opponent plays defensively on 2 bases with a fast blink, this is almost impossible; you should theoretically always be behind going into the mid game



Can't you get charge, maybe +1 armor/attack and your 3rd? You get ready to farg him hard at middle of map with chargelots stalkers + phoenixes. Techpath: chargelot/archon into doublerobo colo.
as useful as teasalt
Xanatoss
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany539 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-19 18:48:04
March 19 2012 18:40 GMT
#26
I dont know if I like the Forge. I play Phoenixes in PvP aswell and I feel going for a Robo as 4th Structure instead (even blind if you embrace the fact that you cant kill FE Builds immediately) is almost always better. Highground-Cannons are just completely useless as soon as you expand or if the opponent goes for the really common blink/obs build.

On March 20 2012 02:02 Ryndika wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2012 12:51 Alejandrisha wrote:

It seems to be good against everything except blink expands that play very passively-- against expansions, you can almost always kill enough probes to compensate for your later expansion. When your opponent plays defensively on 2 bases with a fast blink, this is almost impossible; you should theoretically always be behind going into the mid game



Can't you get charge, maybe +1 armor/attack and your 3rd? You get ready to farg him hard at middle of map with chargelots stalkers + phoenixes. Techpath: chargelot/archon into doublerobo colo.


If he went for Blink-Expand his natural transition is Chargelot/Archon aswell, so there is no point in doing the same but slower.
The chair slowly turns around. You see his face, but it can't be. He's not supposed to be here. Not him. Not a Protoss. Not THAT Protoss. MC says, "Hi Greg, long time no see." You back slowly out of the booth. But you can't. It's already forcefielded.
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
March 19 2012 22:49 GMT
#27
i don't really know how to defend the forge for the sake of the build, but to me it's cheaper 1 base detection and it's not like adding a robo will suddenly give you the ability to pressure a fast expansion. take it as you will
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
-MoOsE-
Profile Joined March 2011
United States236 Posts
March 19 2012 22:55 GMT
#28
I just have one question with phoenix builds. I don't know what to do when the other player goes phoenix too. It seems I can never win. I just keep spamming phoenix if he has any more phoenix than me he wins.
The King in the North Fighting
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
March 19 2012 23:42 GMT
#29
On March 20 2012 07:55 -MoOsE- wrote:
I just have one question with phoenix builds. I don't know what to do when the other player goes phoenix too. It seems I can never win. I just keep spamming phoenix if he has any more phoenix than me he wins.

Here's a trick I learned from a 1v1 with some random GM player:

1 SG Phoenix
Scout opponent going 1 SG Phoenix
-> 2 SG Phoenix
+1 Air Weapons
Hallucination

Then when you engage, have as many hallucinated Phoenix as possible. You'll win for sure as you'll lose little to nothing (especially if he doesn't have +1 Air Weapons) and won't be able to come back in the game. He's also less likely to have proper detection during the engagement due to investing in a SG instead of a Robo.

If he goes double SG Pheonix, you should still win because of the Hallu/+1 weapons.
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
March 19 2012 23:47 GMT
#30
On March 20 2012 08:42 CecilSunkure wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2012 07:55 -MoOsE- wrote:
I just have one question with phoenix builds. I don't know what to do when the other player goes phoenix too. It seems I can never win. I just keep spamming phoenix if he has any more phoenix than me he wins.

Here's a trick I learned from a 1v1 with some random GM player:

1 SG Phoenix
Scout opponent going 1 SG Phoenix
-> 2 SG Phoenix
+1 Air Weapons
Hallucination

Then when you engage, have as many hallucinated Phoenix as possible. You'll win for sure as you'll lose little to nothing (especially if he doesn't have +1 Air Weapons) and won't be able to come back in the game. He's also less likely to have proper detection during the engagement due to investing in a SG instead of a Robo.

If he goes double SG Pheonix, you should still win because of the Hallu/+1 weapons.


this.
i tried 2 sg and going for phoenix range once or twice after getting +1 (when i was already ahead, too!)... and it's awful-- too much wasted gas and phoenix range is pretty much negligible though it seems like it would be strong. have been going 2sg +1 and have heard of the hallu trick but haven't seen many phoenix users recently
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Xanatoss
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany539 Posts
March 19 2012 23:49 GMT
#31
On March 20 2012 08:42 CecilSunkure wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2012 07:55 -MoOsE- wrote:
I just have one question with phoenix builds. I don't know what to do when the other player goes phoenix too. It seems I can never win. I just keep spamming phoenix if he has any more phoenix than me he wins.

Here's a trick I learned from a 1v1 with some random GM player:

1 SG Phoenix
Scout opponent going 1 SG Phoenix
-> 2 SG Phoenix
+1 Air Weapons
Hallucination

Then when you engage, have as many hallucinated Phoenix as possible. You'll win for sure as you'll lose little to nothing (especially if he doesn't have +1 Air Weapons) and won't be able to come back in the game. He's also less likely to have proper detection during the engagement due to investing in a SG instead of a Robo.

If he goes double SG Pheonix, you should still win because of the Hallu/+1 weapons.


I dont get it. Whats the point of paying 100 Gas per Phoenix-Hallu (unless the Sentry is fully charged, which takes a really long time) instead of building an actual Phoenix for the same amount of Gas. Especially if you are going 2 Star anyways and considering all the drawbacks of Hallucination like limited time of use, no dmg, need to protect the sentries and even greater casualities if he tags his phoenix to yours unprepared.
The chair slowly turns around. You see his face, but it can't be. He's not supposed to be here. Not him. Not a Protoss. Not THAT Protoss. MC says, "Hi Greg, long time no see." You back slowly out of the booth. But you can't. It's already forcefielded.
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
March 19 2012 23:51 GMT
#32
On March 20 2012 08:49 Xanatoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2012 08:42 CecilSunkure wrote:
On March 20 2012 07:55 -MoOsE- wrote:
I just have one question with phoenix builds. I don't know what to do when the other player goes phoenix too. It seems I can never win. I just keep spamming phoenix if he has any more phoenix than me he wins.

Here's a trick I learned from a 1v1 with some random GM player:

1 SG Phoenix
Scout opponent going 1 SG Phoenix
-> 2 SG Phoenix
+1 Air Weapons
Hallucination

Then when you engage, have as many hallucinated Phoenix as possible. You'll win for sure as you'll lose little to nothing (especially if he doesn't have +1 Air Weapons) and won't be able to come back in the game. He's also less likely to have proper detection during the engagement due to investing in a SG instead of a Robo.

If he goes double SG Pheonix, you should still win because of the Hallu/+1 weapons.


I dont get it. Whats the point of paying 100 Gas per Phoenix-Hallu (unless the Sentry is fully charged, which takes a really long time) instead of building an actual Phoenix for the same amount of Gas. Especially if you are going 2 Star anyways and considering all the drawbacks of Hallucination like limited time of use, no dmg, need to protect the sentries and even greater casualities if he tags his phoenix to yours unprepared.


hallu penix are like pdds. they shoot what they will. unless of course there is detection in play but that won't usually happen unless obs speed is out O_O
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8476 Posts
March 19 2012 23:52 GMT
#33
Stargate vs Stargate is the dumbest shit in the world.
Moderator
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
March 19 2012 23:54 GMT
#34
On March 20 2012 08:52 NrGmonk wrote:
Stargate vs Stargate is the dumbest shit in the world.

what?!?! it's my favorite thing in the world. when i see their penix i am secretly wigglin over here.
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
CrazyF1r3f0x
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2120 Posts
March 19 2012 23:57 GMT
#35
If you get a cannon+forge instead of robo+obs how do you deal with blink obs if you can't snipe the observer?
"Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the overcompensations for misery."
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-19 23:58:59
March 19 2012 23:57 GMT
#36
On March 20 2012 08:52 NrGmonk wrote:
Stargate vs Stargate is the dumbest shit in the world.

Trufax rite here.

On March 20 2012 08:57 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
If you get a cannon+forge instead of robo+obs how do you deal with blink obs if you can't snipe the observer?

I don't really think a sniping of the Observer is required, is it? You have a lot of units to press the Blink Stalkers away.
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 00:02:31
March 19 2012 23:59 GMT
#37
On March 20 2012 08:57 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
If you get a cannon+forge instead of robo+obs how do you deal with blink obs if you can't snipe the observer?

the detection range of a cannon is greater than the sight range of an obs. i've gone up to 2 cannons to zone obs.. sounds nooby as hell i know.. i have done a retarded amount of exploration in this haha.

though it should put you behind the second you place the cannon, i actually love it for the denial of tech scouting later. double robo? triple robo? do w/e the hell you want their obs will never go near it. knowledge of robo bay vs. archon should incite drastically different reactions
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 00:03:12
March 20 2012 00:01 GMT
#38
that settles it. monk cecil gogo ffa penix vs penix vs penix gogo

edit: maybe not. either way both pm me char codes anyway
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Xanatoss
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany539 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 00:05:37
March 20 2012 00:03 GMT
#39
On March 20 2012 08:54 Alejandrisha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2012 08:52 NrGmonk wrote:
Stargate vs Stargate is the dumbest shit in the world.

what?!?! it's my favorite thing in the world. when i see their penix i am secretly wigglin over here.


Same here. I am so glad I have the mirror with Star vs Star instead of Bane vs Bane. Like a Sir!

On March 20 2012 08:51 Alejandrisha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2012 08:49 Xanatoss wrote:
On March 20 2012 08:42 CecilSunkure wrote:
On March 20 2012 07:55 -MoOsE- wrote:
I just have one question with phoenix builds. I don't know what to do when the other player goes phoenix too. It seems I can never win. I just keep spamming phoenix if he has any more phoenix than me he wins.

Here's a trick I learned from a 1v1 with some random GM player:

1 SG Phoenix
Scout opponent going 1 SG Phoenix
-> 2 SG Phoenix
+1 Air Weapons
Hallucination

Then when you engage, have as many hallucinated Phoenix as possible. You'll win for sure as you'll lose little to nothing (especially if he doesn't have +1 Air Weapons) and won't be able to come back in the game. He's also less likely to have proper detection during the engagement due to investing in a SG instead of a Robo.

If he goes double SG Pheonix, you should still win because of the Hallu/+1 weapons.


I dont get it. Whats the point of paying 100 Gas per Phoenix-Hallu (unless the Sentry is fully charged, which takes a really long time) instead of building an actual Phoenix for the same amount of Gas. Especially if you are going 2 Star anyways and considering all the drawbacks of Hallucination like limited time of use, no dmg, need to protect the sentries and even greater casualities if he tags his phoenix to yours unprepared.


hallu penix are like pdds. they shoot what they will. unless of course there is detection in play but that won't usually happen unless obs speed is out O_O


How about a PDD that SHOOTS BACK for the same Gas?
The chair slowly turns around. You see his face, but it can't be. He's not supposed to be here. Not him. Not a Protoss. Not THAT Protoss. MC says, "Hi Greg, long time no see." You back slowly out of the booth. But you can't. It's already forcefielded.
Geiko
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France1939 Posts
March 20 2012 00:49 GMT
#40
Mmmm, I'm not getting the hallucinate part either
You basically have only one sentry so getting hallucination for 100 gas gives you at most 2 half life phoenixes that do 0 dps instead of 1 real phoenix (since you can't produce constant phoenix out of 2 stargates).
geiko.813 (EU)
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