EPT[D] PvZ Beating Stephano Style Roaches - Page 25
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Please have some semblance of an idea of what you're talking about. | ||
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caval
Sweden10 Posts
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Friend23
Poland270 Posts
On March 20 2012 04:16 kcdc wrote: Let it go guys. The 8:00 +1 zealot timing is not the answer to this Zerg build. We know that, and the Showtime vs Stephano VOD didn't tell us anything new. Let's move on. So far, it seems like we've got 2 main ideas: (1) robo, fast third, defend with forcefields and immortals (2) single SG, fast third, defend with forcefields and air, and if given enough time, robo units Those seem like the most promising options, tho it remains to be seen how well they work. Seems like as Zergs become more proficient at defending all-ins, the metagame will shift toward Protoss doing these two types of builds more often. We'll see how it goes. or will switch away from blindly doing this ffe, but thats not something you want to hear of in my very personal opinion, you should probably redefine your understanding of 'metagame' | ||
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TyrionSC2
United States411 Posts
On March 20 2012 04:27 caval wrote: Double immortal has to be started before you could possibly know what the zerg is going. Also, it's not like the zerg can't switch tech Okay let's assume the following: Protoss ffe Zerg pool hatch hatch Zerg puts down an evo and a roach warren and makes some roaches to defend Zerg makes it look like he is doing roach or roach ling pressure You respond with some immortals while zerg switches tech Assuming zerg does not switch into muta (you can scout this with obs or hallucination) then what is stopping protoss from doing a double robo colossus all in on 2 base? This will crush any roach armies since you have immortal and colossus, it will crush infestor or ling base armies. It won't be terrible vs bane drops if the immortals can soak the initial baneling hits. It will obviously lose to a zerg who goes muta. Zerg will not be able to go into broodlord quick enough if he maxes on roaches. He'll probably take a 4th, make 10-15 spines, and tech to broodlord but it would be so slow and his ground army would be so poor that I don't think it would matter. What about that? | ||
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Berailfor
441 Posts
Wait what are you trying to say? That if you go colossi and the Zerg doesn't get a spire he loses? Yeah I'm pretty sure that's how it's always been. If your going double robo colossi and he doesn't go for spire for mutas and/or corruptors he is just a terrible Zerg. | ||
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Friend23
Poland270 Posts
that requires 2 robos, if 2 is not enough, try 3 and yes, you will always be vulnerable to their tech switch, thats zerg | ||
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TyrionSC2
United States411 Posts
Be prepared for their roach attack, if it doesn't happen, play reactively and just kill them if they don't go spire and they go infestor ling or roach ling. It isn't anything new obviously, but it is a clear and easy response to that kind of zerg. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
Double-robo on 2 base leaves you with too many power units and not enough army bulk to support your power units. You really need a third base before double-robo starts to make sense at all. | ||
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Berailfor
441 Posts
No. If you got double robo colossi, it's totally allin and if they scout it you pretty much just lose because they WILL go spire. I was asking you rhetorically. I know what you were trying to say. Just pointing out that it's a terrible suggestion to the problem. Edit: and as for the guy suggesting 3 robos. I just don't even know what to say. | ||
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the p00n
Netherlands615 Posts
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
On March 20 2012 05:31 the p00n wrote: Can anyone please tell me why a VR can't thwart any roach/ling aggression? Surely he won't flood you with so many roaches that you cannot defend with a void ray and force fields/whatever units you have/cannons? Thats exactly what he will do. | ||
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Perfi
Poland349 Posts
On March 20 2012 05:31 the p00n wrote: Can anyone please tell me why a VR can't thwart any roach/ling aggression? Surely he won't flood you with so many roaches that you cannot defend with a void ray and force fields/whatever units you have/cannons? Yeah, uh, he most likely will. Admittedly, I don't have much experience with Stargate PvZ, but I do think that against a huge number of roaches (and trust me, I've seen those) sentries and a void ray aren't going to be enough. | ||
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20cts
France175 Posts
On March 20 2012 05:31 the p00n wrote: Can anyone please tell me why a VR can't thwart any roach/ling aggression? Surely he won't flood you with so many roaches that you cannot defend with a void ray and force fields/whatever units you have/cannons? Void rays don't actually do enough damage to prevent a mass roach from killing your third. | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On March 20 2012 05:31 the p00n wrote: Can anyone please tell me why a VR can't thwart any roach/ling aggression? Surely he won't flood you with so many roaches that you cannot defend with a void ray and force fields/whatever units you have/cannons? If P goes air, Z just ad a handful of hydras. Relatively, P loses a lot more power going air than Z does by substituting a few roaches by hydras. | ||
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eFonSG
United States255 Posts
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the p00n
Netherlands615 Posts
On March 20 2012 05:38 20cts wrote: Void rays don't actually do enough damage to prevent a mass roach from killing your third. I'm talking about 8ish minutes, not 11ish minutes. Of course you'll have more stuff (more void rays if necessary) when your 3rd is up. You get to 2 bases either by FFE or gateway expanding, then you grab 3rd and have your tech out to deal with lair armies (colossus, HTs, more air, what have you). | ||
monk
United States8476 Posts
On March 20 2012 06:05 the p00n wrote: I'm talking about 8ish minutes, not 11ish minutes. Of course you'll have more stuff (more void rays if necessary) when your 3rd is up. You get to 2 bases either by FFE or gateway expanding, then you grab 3rd and have your tech out to deal with lair armies (colossus, HTs, more air, what have you). The problem is everyone else is talking about 11ish minutes. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On March 20 2012 06:14 NrGmonk wrote: The problem is everyone else is talking about 11ish minutes. monk, I know you're big on single SG -> fast third and robo, at least on Daybreak. Do you have anything to add about how well it defends maxed or near-maxed speed roach timings at 11-12 min? I know I've seen the defense both succeed and fail, but it seems like most of the time that P defends successfully, it's because Z slams his head into forcefields rather than splitting his army and hitting multiple attack paths at once. Quick burrow move obviously helps a lot as well. I feel pretty confident that the SG+forcefield style won't work on Korhal, but it seems like a lot of pro Z's don't even try the 12 minute speed roach timing on Daybreak. I assume that's because they think teching to hive (or mutas) is a higher % win, but I'm not so sure they're right about that. | ||
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the p00n
Netherlands615 Posts
On March 20 2012 06:14 NrGmonk wrote: The problem is everyone else is talking about 11ish minutes. Then you have your tech out (colossus, more air, whatever you want). What's the problem? | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On March 20 2012 06:28 the p00n wrote: Then you have your tech out (colossus, more air, whatever you want). What's the problem? The problem is you don't have much army. You said earlier that you haven't played in 4 months. If you think you have a solution, grab a practice partner, test it out, and post the replays. | ||
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Chemist391
United States362 Posts
What about Korhal, Cloud Kingdom, and the like? +2 7-gate blink as a defensive build? Cut probes at ~55 for an under-saturated 3rd to be able to produce consistently out of your gates? I saw WhiteRa do something similar to this recently, but I don't know how Stephano-like the Z's build really was. | ||
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