EPT
[H][D] Can 'anyone' be Masters? - Page 7
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Jumonji
France60 Posts
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Suikakuju
Germany238 Posts
I have like 2678 League wins and I am still in Diamond. Started with season 1 (Good old times when Diamond was the best league) and is still the same in season 6. I really feel like hittin a wall aswell, I mean being in the same league for so long makes you think you reached the end of the line  But for your part I would say that there is still room to improve, I mean if you started in bronze and are now high plat. You see your progress in carrier window and should know that you can do it. | ||
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Host-
New Zealand459 Posts
There are some scenarios where someone won't be able to get masters, assuming that theres nothing "wrong" with them, anyone should be able to. | ||
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dream-_-
United States1857 Posts
First of all, don't listen to what anyone says is the "normal" amount of time to advance in the ranks. The amount of variables that come into play here is just too absurd to even begin to name. If you still feel like you are progressing slowly, try to evaluate the way you are training. Chances are, it is not because of your lack of natural talent. Second, yes ability does have something to do with your overall skill, just as ability has something to do with your overall ability in anything you do. However, I am quite confident in saying that almost anyone can make grand master, and if you are here on the forums having an intelligent conversation, you are one of those people. Anything after that is just how much time and effort you want to put into this game, and how serious you want to take it. | ||
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LF9
United States537 Posts
Also, there are some myths about Starcraft2 that are NOT true. "Anyone can get to x level if you just keep playing". This just isn't true. There IS a level of natural talent involved. I would say RTS games are 50% natural talent, and 50% practice/dedication. Both are necessary. If you don't have "it", you will never get to the highest level. But if you are a very talented RTS player, you still won't be any good without mass games and practice, dedication, and understanding. You have to know the game to know what to do and how to win, and you have to understand the game very well to be fast. Speed comes from having played a lot of games. If you've played 20k games of a particular RTS, you are likely going to be very used to the interface and very quick to get the necessary things done without actually being "fast". You just know what needs to be done and when and you do it. As for the whole "if you aren't masters, your mechanics are bad". Also not true. Learning timings is a VERY big thing. So many players, probably half of the players in Diamond and Platinum, have master level macro and mechanics, and simply have NO idea when they are supposed to attack. I've seen it. I've beaten SO many people at that level and watched to replay to find that they were ahead for a pretty good sized window, but just didn't attack or pressure, instead just kept macroing and I ended up beating them after a big battle and remaxing. You have to play a lot and learn when people can have certain things and in what amount, and have an idea of when you are strong vs when you are weak. I win plenty of PvZs with 2 bases to the Zerg's 4 just because I stayed on 2 saturated base for a bit and massed up an army, and hit right as their 4th was finishing. If you have good mechanics and aren't improving, watch all of your loss replays and look for windows where you could have attacked, or where you could have stopped making workers and not expanded and added an extra rax or gate etc. and massed up for a minute or so and attacked for the kill. If you have good macro and keep getting killed by timing attacks, same thing. Watch loss replays and look at when you got killed and realize that you gotta keep an eye on what they have while macroing so you don't get killed just because you weren't building units while you were droning up. My 2 cents. | ||
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MannerMan
371 Posts
I'd say anybody with 10 hours/wk toward sc2 and an IQ over 120 can be masters. | ||
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robih
Austria1086 Posts
Also, there are some myths about Starcraft2 that are NOT true. "Anyone can get to x level if you just keep playing". This just isn't true. There IS a level of natural talent involved. I would say RTS games are 50% natural talent, and 50% practice/dedication. i agree to some extent, but masters really isnt something special. there is such a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge difference between low master and high master. and tbh low master is nothing special and the players are still terrible. i'm like rank 25-50 master on EU and i'm nowhere near good. | ||
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MelodyBW
Ukraine154 Posts
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Douillos
France3195 Posts
On February 16 2012 03:34 terrantosaur wrote: I have questions about what is realistically achievable in terms of improving at SC2. I’d never played RTS games before SC2 was released so came to the game as a genuine noob. I am 38 years old and have a full time job + other responsibilities that mean I cannot play nearly as much SC2 as I’d like. I work in finance (boo) and I have never actually met anyone who plays SC2! This means that I can’t swap war stories/strategies with mates. Essentially I have to improve in isolation (and with the invaluable help of TL). I do have a track record of being ok at things when I can devote time to them. I have represented my country in two different sports (neither of which involved a computer alas..) so I am not without coordination (although I'd like more please :-)). My experience with other pursuits suggests that, with enough application and a little bit of ability, you can achieve your goals. However my experience in terms of ‘rate of improvement’ with SC2 suggests that my view may be wrong. I’d like to get really good at SC2 (by this I mean I’d like to be competitive at Masters level) BUT, although I do try to devote all my spare time to it, I just don’t have time to spend more than say 3 hours a day (some of which will be spent watching pro games as opposed to playing). Here is my history: Season 1 – started in bronze, got to Rank 1 Silver. Seasons 2&3 – high Gold. Seasons 4&5 – high Platinum. I am now ranked 1 in my Platinum league. I play Terran on the EU server and my APM is maybe 80 average (but is very variable – there are moments when it hits 300 and moments when it is 0). I read the forums: many people just seem to ‘be’ Masters. Ie they just play the game and instantly achieve this sort of level (don’t ask me how). Almost all of the top players in the world are under 30 – let alone nearer 40 – so perhaps age also acts as a barrier to improvement, especially if you come to RTS gaming ‘late’. So to my questions: 1) Does this (slow) rate of progress indicate that I have roughly ‘found my level’? Ie I will be high Plat/low Diamond maybe but not much better. 2) Will I be naturally capped by my low APM? Is APM like IQ ie it doesn’t really change that much over time. Or can anyone provide examples of how there APM has improved markedly? 3) Are there people in the Masters league who don’t have to practise that much to be that good? Ie is there such a thing as ‘natural talent’ in SC2 or is it basically application? My practice at the moment consists of laddering and watching professional games. I do not have partners to play with and I’ve never had coaching. I am sure it is fair to say that both would benefit me but can anyone say they’ve improved dramatically as a result of either/both? If so, are these people who actually have a sh*tload more time to play than I do? Ie might I be better just carrying on laddering until I win the lottery and can play full time? I wasn't sure a 'replay' was necessary for these sorts of questions. Happy to provide if necessary. Simon First things first, don't let yourself get demotivated by the slow learning curve of the game. Im 25 and also have a lot of obligations, and have felt very undermined being 5 seasons in diamond (same objective as you, but never seeming to get closer was hard when you put a lot of effort in it). But the feeling i got yesterday at 7 am (before going to work ^^) of finally getting into masters was so fucking worth it! I will answer your questions gladly: 1) I dont believe that you have no progress ahead of you. As everyone you hit skill barriers or plateau's that are very hard to overcome. I have tried a lot of different things to overcome them, stop playing for a few days often helps, watching you replays to determine your main problem and then working on that only for the 10 + next games. the truth is, it's a little bit of everything that gets you past it, and realistically it can take some time... 2) APM requires practice, but i do believe that it is the only thing that can really differ between people. My opinion is there is an APM cap that you cant overcome. You can train micro, lean the game like you would chess, but the handicap factor is always APM. 3) First of all there a lot of people in masters who are in masters and who really just got there by cheesing/all in-ing. But if you want to have a real masters macro/micro skill, with proper game decisions etc. then you better keep your game up to pace, and always be aware of the meta game etc. Or maybe I think to highly of masters? Really it's like in all domains, you have players who have no need to train and have a natural talent at sc2, but if they are not training then they are stupid coz they could be top masters and being competetive in tourney's etc. But for most people, keeping your masters lvl if you ladder actively is definitily training worth. As for my advice to get better, I think a lot has been said in a lot of threads but here are the bottom line: - If you have trouble boosting your APM, play MECH. It gets the game into a a different feeling which is really interesting and less hectic. - Learn one Build order and perfect it: get those timings down, get those supply depots at the right time. Do it 10000000 times and then you will be ready to start moving around with it. As your terran id say 1 rax FE is a good way to go (it works in all match ups). It will help your scouting a lot as you will be exposed to cheese. - Find training partners: I really recommend you search for a training partner/ team / gaming channel . go on the teamliquid channel, try other ones depending on your country. And play with other people! Do BoX games instead of single games will help ask yourself questions like " what kind of opponent is this?" etc. which will come in handy and give you that READ-ing skill that you need in tourneys. - Watch your replays, and analyze them! there is a whole thread about that, and even a day 9 if I recall... So check those out! hope i could help out, All the best and remember, no gg no skill! GL HF !! | ||
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VoO
Germany278 Posts
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Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
Realistically, this won't happen, so you can. | ||
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Operations
115 Posts
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gplayer
Romania106 Posts
OP, I believe you can get into masters by doing some simple things: - keep playing - keep watching vods, try to do the standard builds that the pros do - when you loose watch the replay, see what was really going on/what you thought was going on - mix in some all ins/cheese every now and then to spice things up (even if they don't work out); playing just standard is pretty boring after a while It takes time, as there are a lot of things you have to learn, the brain must process them at night, but it's not like it's only fun when you get there, it's fun all the way there too. I would avoid coaching as you know... $. I couldn't give any advice about being in a team or having someone to talk to about sc2 as I'm in the same position as you. | ||
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galzohar
Israel100 Posts
However, if someone just can't deal with a mouse and keyboard the way a Starcraft 2 master player needs to be able to, or just can't for the life of him understand the game no matter how much he plays and how much it is explained to him, he'll simply never be master's. Just like when I watch a progamer play and say I'll never be able to reach these speeds no matter how much I play, some friends of mine would watch me play with my 60-80 APM and say they could never reach those speeds (though for them, they might actually be able to if they actually try, since let's face it, 60-80 APM is very low). | ||
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Jumonji
France60 Posts
But when i'm playing with top master of my team, or GM (utsmesh) i'm feeling like a child football team playing against Fc Barcelone. You begin really have the level of you league when , no matter what , you just can't loose against the league above. Even against a cheese or anything | ||
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cutler
Germany609 Posts
I got into Gold this season and get crushed pretty hard cause everone has well shaped builds. I used 3 Rax build to get out of bronze and silver. Now i do an aggressive 1-1-1 Build. I play 3 hours daily at least. Competition got a lot harder on ladder. Just enjoy Starcraft2...getting into an higher league shouldnt be your main goal. And to all the people saying that it is totally easy. Do me a favor and try it again nowadays. Post me your replays please. | ||
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Wrathsc2
United States2025 Posts
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
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Oshuy
Netherlands529 Posts
I'd say anybody with 10 hours/wk toward sc2 and an IQ over 120 can be masters. Anyone can, but if everyone tries only 2% will succeed. I would agree though, that as long as there are people (like quite a few in this thread) who entered and stay in master with only 2/3 games a day, your statement holds. Those will probably drop out of masters if the number of people "really trying" increases | ||
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D4V3Z02
Germany693 Posts
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