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Duban
United States548 Posts
The problem comes when I try to attack. I'm too busy stopping the constant drops to attack my opponent and if I attack anyways I lose my base and am unable to reinforce said attack. I'm always stuck at 200/200 food while the T builds up to match me. I'm told the counter is supposed to be Mutalisks but their drops are still going to keep them too busy defending to counter-attack. What am I doing wrong? edit: Sorry this should be labeled [H]. Could a mod fix it? | ||
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llKenZyll
United States853 Posts
Spotting overlords and mass Mutalisk > drops At your third and fourth just start making 3 spines and a spore, that will make it a bit easier. And just leave 20 ling at home. 20 zerglings = 10 food 8 marines + a medivac = 10 food So yeah, it's only fair you have to sacrifice a bit of YOUR army to deal with HIS sacrifice. | ||
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Flexx
United States87 Posts
On December 10 2011 07:59 Lebzetu wrote: Well hes sacrificing bits of his army to attack you, doesnt it make sense that you should dedicate some to stop them? Spotting overlords and mass Mutalisk > drops At your third and fourth just start making 3 spines and a spore, that will make it a bit easier. And just leave 20 ling at home. 20 zerglings = 10 food 8 marines + a medivac = 10 food So yeah, it's only fair you have to sacrifice a bit of YOUR army to deal with HIS sacrifice. Mass Mutalisk is a sure fire way to die against mass marine. You won't do much damage to his base, you can't fight his army in a straight up fight, and you have tied up all your gas in units that can't kill marines cost effectively.. Mass muta is not the answer. However, I do agree about leaving lings at home. OP, imo, you need to leave some lings/banes at home with a handful of mutalisk. (I prefer to put this small group of units on a single hotkey as a "drop killing task force") That leaves you with the bulk of your army to deal with the bulk of his army. You can always small box some lings/banes off and send them via the mini map to deal with drops if he does multi drop. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
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Fairchild
133 Posts
I've been placing 3 - 4 spines at my 4th, 5th, 6th, ect base just because how annoying it is to defend that much area. You should be discouraging the Terran to drop by vigilantly popping those plump marine filled medivacs mid transit. So again, 1) OL spread, most important 2) leave 10 - 15 slings at home 3) active mutas will shut down drops | ||
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llKenZyll
United States853 Posts
On December 11 2011 02:28 Flexx wrote: Mass Mutalisk is a sure fire way to die against mass marine. You won't do much damage to his base, you can't fight his army in a straight up fight, and you have tied up all your gas in units that can't kill marines cost effectively.. Mass muta is not the answer. However, I do agree about leaving lings at home. OP, imo, you need to leave some lings/banes at home with a handful of mutalisk. (I prefer to put this small group of units on a single hotkey as a "drop killing task force") That leaves you with the bulk of your army to deal with the bulk of his army. You can always small box some lings/banes off and send them via the mini map to deal with drops if he does multi drop. If you watch any progamer that goes Mutalisk-Baneling-Ling, you will see that they get around 25 mutalisks and pick off drops of 8 marines all game. You wont lose any Mutalisks to eight marines because they die so quickly Yes, Mutalisks obviously die to mass marine but if he has less than 50% of the mutalisks you have, then you will clean up the marines by losing one mutalisk at the most. | ||
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RuneSeeker
Canada5 Posts
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heroofcanton
United States167 Posts
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
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llKenZyll
United States853 Posts
On December 11 2011 03:04 Flonomenalz wrote: Well I play Ling/Infestor into BL or Ultra, I just leave a around 4-6 lings, 2 banes, and an infestor at my first 3 bases, then for the rest, 4-5+ spines. You can do this if you want if you are a Ling/Festor goer. Naturally, its harder to deal with drops if you go Zergling/Infestor but you can definitely do this. | ||
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IamPryda
United States1186 Posts
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ImustnotfeaR
United Kingdom154 Posts
I think your best option is to concentrate on expanding and securing your economy and tech at a GREATER rate than you usually would, given he is not (and cannot be) attempting any big pushes due to his lack of factories, as opposed to committing yourself to a lair tech maxed army that he can pin down to being defensive only. Key to this style I think is map vision so he cannot surprise you with any oddly timed pushes. Also you want to expand to closer bases rather than distant ones so as to be easier to defend, and also easier to manage when you make your hive tech moves. | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
and then the most underused except at higher masters/gm, is to just build lots of spines. all ur expos should have a few. this buys you critical time to respond to the drop and not lose drones/queen or even the hatch. some maps you shouldnt be afraid to drop as many as 4-6 crawlers to properly defend. | ||
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Seiferz
United States640 Posts
On December 11 2011 02:58 heroofcanton wrote: To echo what was sad above, Overlord spread and minimap awareness are CRUCIAL. If you see drops coming than they are easy to stop. Also, if your mutas are just sitting still they are being wasted. Mutas should always be active, forcing your opponent to multitask or waste minerals on turrets and feel skittish about expanding.With good OL spread and active mutas, Terrans will think twice about dropping on you. He doesn't have a problem seeing the drops, the problem is that preventing drops from doing damage is allowing the terran to macro and stay safe at home so he can't kill their 200/200 push. I'd say just practice amoving with the minimap to deal with drops if you want to harass as well. It takes godly APM to effectively harass and deal with a drop all game. | ||
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
jk  In all seriousness though, I agree with above posters that you have to give up a bit of your army to deal with his, and you need to have good vision with spotter overlords, lings and creep to be prepared on time, and having a healthy mutalisk flock doesn't hurt either. | ||
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_-NoMaN-_
Canada250 Posts
.What i have been doing myself is when i take my 3rd, i put 2 spines @ my 3rd an main mineral lines, respectively, eventually adding a 3rd at each. Mass (5-6) spines at 4th as building, using ovies for creep. the main advantage of this style is the low food/larva --> power ratio (also eliminating the advantage terran gets from dropping rines in a crevice behind/between mineral patches) as well as the low (0) gas cost. This allows u to aggressively position your army to crush his potential push through the center, or counter attack his weakened defensive position. the key is to ff the queen onto the medivac without losing it, let the spines kill rines. | ||
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HypernovA
Canada556 Posts
It is kind of hard to analyze what you are doing wrong if we have no replay. The only thing I can say is to have better overlord spread in order to intercept the drops more frequently. It also sounds like that you are playing with infestors so this style will be vulnerable to drops. Don't hesitate to drop spine crawlers as defense near your bases to buy you time. Anyways, replay please. I'll be able to expand more. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On December 11 2011 04:04 PhiliBiRD wrote: mutas are the obvious way to quickly respond. having your lings in a centralized location is always good. ovies to cover empty air space to spot for drops. and then the most underused except at higher masters/gm, is to just build lots of spines. all ur expos should have a few. this buys you critical time to respond to the drop and not lose drones/queen or even the hatch. some maps you shouldnt be afraid to drop as many as 4-6 crawlers to properly defend. What Bird said. Also. having great ol placement will just win you games. Knowing its coming and being ready. will punish terrans who que up drops and forget. | ||
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laroche_05
Canada52 Posts
if i get a 4th/5th base i always make 3-4spine crawler to make the defense easier. muta are really good aswell but i think infestor is a pretty good respond to mass marines | ||
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Jobber
United States32 Posts
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
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coL.hendralisk
Zimbabwe1756 Posts
On December 11 2011 08:19 Squigly wrote: Noones mentioned burrowing banelings? Always annoys me as they dont do friendly splash How are you going to burrow banelings preemptively in a spot you think marines will walk over? :/ | ||
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654321
Belize100 Posts
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On December 11 2011 09:04 HenryZ wrote: How are you going to burrow banelings preemptively in a spot you think marines will walk over? :/ by putting a spine or 2 to cover most of the base. The T will always avoid these and go to the 'free' space. Then die. | ||
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
On December 11 2011 04:06 Kluey wrote: Here's what I think.. If the Terran is any good he should stop doing drops when you get mutalisks out. If he keeps doing it, great! Take the free kills and tech up to broodlords. Do counter attacks with your zerglings and expand everywhere. In your 4th,5th and maybe even 3rd put down 4-5 spines to deal with drops. You should be ahead if you are macroing properly. This is so wrong, to stop dropping just because they have mutas is a waste. You just drop when his mutas are harassing so that they're out of place or by dropping 2 locations. Trading 8 marines and a medivac for 1-2 mutas isn't even that bad, especially since if the mutas are out of place you can do a decent amount of damage. Drops are also really good against someone going BLs, potential snipes on the GS and the slow speed of an infestor+bl army (plus the fact that 8 marines is basically nothing at that point) makes them great. You'll rarely see a Code S terran stop dropping just because mutas are out. The best way is 3-4 spines and leaving a few lings (or a few lings + an infestor), mutas help but you shouldn't *need* to get them, good OL placement helps a lot, but some terrans might get a viking to deny that. That + good multitask should lessen the effects of drops, don't worry too much about going and killing him, even if he maxes out you shouldn't auto-lose against him. Also don't move your whole army to stop the drop, you don't need a 200 food army to drop 8-16 marines. A lot of Zergs have trouble with drops because of this, they can't put any pressure on because their WHOLE army is stopping the drop and they often struggle against multi-pronged drops. | ||
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aviator116
United States820 Posts
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aRRoSC2
Denmark241 Posts
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RaptorJesus
United States20 Posts
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
That being said, I've recently started being super aggro with drops vs zerg, and I've found that more and more zergs just suck at multitasking and splitting their army, even if they spot the drop with an ovie 30 seconds before it lands, they rarely have units in position, and if they do, it tends to be either their whole ground army or their entire flock of mutas. | ||
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chadissilent
Canada1187 Posts
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HTODethklok
United States221 Posts
On December 11 2011 09:04 HenryZ wrote: How are you going to burrow banelings preemptively in a spot you think marines will walk over? :/ Set the banelings to auto unborrow near your hatch or mineral line whatever terran is likely to attack. Terran players usually try to focus down drones or a hatch with drops they usually dont expect a couple of banes to auto unburrow and destroy their drop. What I like to do is place 2 spines and a spore at each base as these will likely be the first thing the terran player tries to focus down with their drop. Marines have a range of 5 so try and place your burrowed banes at a range of 5 away from your static defenses so that as the stimmed marines run in and begin focus firing your spine crawlers your banes are free to unburrow right as the marines get into range. Also lings that have an upgrade advantage over marines clean up drops pretty well but youll need banes if they try cramming their marines between the small gaps in your mineral line. If you have a queen at the base thats being dropped use the queen to focus down the medivac/s | ||
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Duban
United States548 Posts
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leffedabaye
9 Posts
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Flexx
United States87 Posts
On December 10 2011 07:59 Lebzetu wrote: If you watch any progamer that goes Mutalisk-Baneling-Ling, you will see that they get around 25 mutalisks and pick off drops of 8 marines all game. You wont lose any Mutalisks to eight marines because they die so quickly Yes, Mutalisks obviously die to mass marine but if he has less than 50% of the mutalisks you have, then you will clean up the marines by losing one mutalisk at the most. Making that many mutalisk will work to stop drops, but it's not a the most effective way to stop them. Ling/bane with enough muta (8-10) to clean up the medivacs is a significantly more cost effective trade for dealing with drops, and doesn't leave you with 2500 gas worth of muta that can't do anything other than hunt drops all game long. (All assuming we are playing MASS marines.) Assuming you make 10 muta no matter what, would you rather have 15 mutalisk or 10 infestors vs mass marine? | ||
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gammaraptor
Canada1 Post
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Before Broodlords, if you went Mutalisks midgame, you should get overlord speed quickly and spread them all over the map - with Mutaling you have great midgame mapcontrol and you should be able to see the whole map with the exception of Terran base and maybe his line of attack. This early into the game, dropship and 8 marines is a very big investment from him; I would reccomend postponing your attack in order to kill the drop with your Mutalisk flock. While this "gets the Terran what he wants", time, there is not much else you can really do. I'm not experienced with Infestor midgame, but from what I can tell you should play very defensively anyway - spread out some Infestors, maybe 1 in each base, and make 1 or 2 Zergling+Baneling defensive groups, designated to attack any incoming drops. Dealing with drops when attacking with Broodlord army is very very hard. Once you get to the point when you start building Broodlords a race begins - you must kill the Terran before he is able to build an army that can deal with yours. Your Mutalisk flock will likely be too small now to deal with 8 3/3 marines. Try to go for an infestor or 2 in every base that is likely to get dropped and mine a little more Minerals instead of Gas and build a few Spine Crawlers+1 Spore in each base that is likely to be dropped. Again, use 2-3 small Zergling+Baneling control groups only for defense. You can afford to do that as Marine+Tank army is very inefficient against BL army. You should never stop attacking the Terran with your Broodlords; even 30 seconds given can result in a loss. Hope I was helpful. | ||
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Advocado
Denmark994 Posts
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agentheart
22 Posts
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Pixel.
Netherlands287 Posts
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