[D] Lessons learned from Brown vs Losira - Page 16

On February 08 2012 08:35 NrGmonk wrote:

You poor child

On February 11 2012 05:34 kcdc wrote:
Will this strategy get a big buff with the phoenix range upgrade?

Did others who used this strategy have problems vs mutas?

On February 11 2012 05:53 NrGmonk wrote:

Don't see how this one specific strategy had more problems vs mutas than others. Or how the phoenix buff will help this strategy more than others. Should discuss this topic more generally in other places or wait for the actual patch imo.

On February 11 2012 06:20 kcdc wrote:


This strategy is more vulnerable than others to mutas for several reasons:

(1) it doesn't have a strong 2-base timing, which means Z can go fast third straight into muta
(2) it relies on expanding quickly and aggressively, which leaves plenty of openings for muta harass
(3) it invests in 2 robotics facilities, a support bay, and colossi, all of which are pretty useless vs muta

The phoenix buff is particularly relevant to this strategy because it opens with a stargate, but given the current game parameters, that stargate is not useful to deal with mutas.

I brought this up in this thread because it seems like exactly the sort of build that the phoenix change is designed to affect. If a fleet beacon range upgrade wouldn't be useful for this strategy, would it be useful anywhere?

On February 11 2012 06:25 NrGmonk wrote:

Depending on what you scout, you don't have to invest in a 2nd robo, a support bay, or any colossi.

On February 11 2012 06:48 kcdc wrote:


Right, but if you see a bunch of roaches on the field and a spire building, it could easily indicate a roach/corruptor push, and you're probably going to get the support bay and start producing colossi/immortals until you actually see the muta ball forming. The spire might persuade you not to build a 2nd robo.

Mostly, my point is that this strategy leaves an opening for Z to comfortably hit a ball of 30+ mutas. Meanwhile, the default state for the build will involve P being spread out with an idle stargate and delayed twilight tech. Doesn't that sound like the perfect confluence of factors where range-upgraded phoenixes should have a prominent role in one branch of the strategy?

On February 11 2012 23:18 LoNeLyTrOoPeR wrote:
I really don't understand why P's are still thinking 1 voidray can hold off massive roach/ling attacks from Zergs. Clearly, it can't. The roaches and lings simply overpower and swarm you while your poor void ray is trying to pick them off 1 by 1.

On February 13 2012 10:37 Treehead wrote:
What do people here generally go for against Infestors that come quickly (like 2 base infestor) - the type where they bust down the door with a TON of IT. Maybe nothing special from gateway robo is needed (my macro was bad the game I lost to it), but I saw someone do the same against Huk on his stream when he took a fast third and he seemed to have trouble with it too (he lost). Or rather, do you just sac the base, wait for the IT to die and counter attack energyless infestors? Any thoughts?

Edit: Or do you not get a fast third if you scout no third with a probe and get a fast something else instead (storm? colossus?)? Bear in mind that it's generally hard to feedback infestors before they throw out ITs with zerglings to prevent you from just running them at the army like people do against T.