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I had a thought a few hours ago and so I decided to investigate, and I found something, while not very surprising, quite interesting, I'll let you follow my chain of thought below.
Some well known facts about creep:
1. zerg units get a speed bonus. (this won't be important in the remainder of this post)
2. Hatcheries produce creep. (range 12)
3. Creep tumors produce creep. (range 9)
4. Overlords can produce creep once you have lair tech. (range 6)
edit: 4.5 nydus worms produce creep. (range unknown, guessing range 9)
5. Creep receeds if the creep is not sustained.
6. Areas where creep is naturally spawned (by hatcheries, creep tumors and overlords) are sustained.
7. Creep receeds from the edges (of the creep) towards the middle.
Given these well known facts I started thinking:
"How is the creep programmed to make point 7?"
The most natural answer is a hidden point 8:
8. Creep surrounded by other creep is sustained.
And you quickly realize a practically unknown point 9:
9. Creep does not need to be in range of a hatchery, creep tumor or overlord to be permanently sustained.
And so I started experimenting:
![[image loading]](http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/Roblin92/creepringnon-filled.png)
making a frame, no creeptumors are used, only overlords
![[image loading]](http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/Roblin92/creepringbeingfilled.png)
filling the frame with creep
![[image loading]](http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/Roblin92/creepringfilled.png)
the frame is filled, and the creep is not receeding!
Heureka! Indeed if it is surrounded by sustained creep an infinitely big area of creep can be sustained without being actively sustained itself.
Excellent.
We have found a way to use creep which almost noone knows about.
What now?
I can think of the following:
in ZvT early game when hellion pressure is denying creep spread, you can use overlords to spread creep in the place of creep tumors, since hellions cannot kill overlords.
the normal problem with overlord creep spread is the fact that the small creep spread range of overlords forces you to commit a large amount of overlords to it, which is not always possible to do because this early in the game the overlords are being spread around the map for scouting purposes, also, a lot of overlords in the same place means a massive supplyblock if surprise marines arrive.
this trick however lets you minimize the amount of overlords required and committed to such a creep spread (from 4-5 ovies to 3-4).
if you are lucky, the hellions may be afraid of entering the creep (as they should be) which allows you to safely put down those creep tumors you wanted.
so in short, the only way I can think of to use this is to negate denied creep spread, but can only be done after your lair finishes...
like so:
![[image loading]](http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/Roblin92/potentialuse1.png)
before filling
![[image loading]](http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/Roblin92/potentialuse2.png)
after filling, 3 overlords covering slightly more than they should be able to
so practically useless unless the terrain is very open outside your natural.
I don't actually know in what way this can be abused and it is for this reason I added the [D] tag in the title.
I reach to our wonderful community: any ideas at all?
The polls below refers to creep not receeding when surrounded by sustained creep.
Poll: Usefulness?This might be useful (130) 55% This won't be useful, but its good for the community to know (49) 21% This will be useful (47) 20% This won't be useful and there is no point for this thread to exist. (9) 4% Other: explain in a post (3) 1% 238 total votes Your vote: Usefulness? (Vote): This will be useful
(Vote): This might be useful
(Vote): This won't be useful, but its good for the community to know
(Vote): This won't be useful and there is no point for this thread to exist.
(Vote): Other: explain in a post
if you vote <this will be useful> please describe what use you are referring to in a post.
Poll: AwarenessI had no idea about this (167) 75% I suspected this, but never researched further (36) 16% I knew about this already (21) 9% 224 total votes Your vote: Awareness (Vote): I knew about this already
(Vote): I suspected this, but never researched further
(Vote): I had no idea about this
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This isn't game breaking, but it actually seems to be rather useful if used to it's greatest potential. Make a ring of overlords to sustain a HUGE creep field in the middle? Sounds sick to me
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very interesting and a nice post, thanks!
but imho this can only be useful when used on the zergs own half of the map, perhaps to replace denied creep spread from killed tumors near the own base...
i dont think this will be usable in the middle of the map - a huge ring of ovies in the middle of the map is too big of a target to sustain unless the zerg is already so far ahead that he can effortlessly control the middle - a situation in which saving 3-4 ovie-spread-radiuses (whats the plural of radius? XD  ) is probably not worth it.
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Pretty intresting, but I dont see this beinbg so useful against early helions as creep spreading overlords would tell the lair timing for terran with out really scouting.
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Not useful, very hard to set up, but I think it's a cool find 
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Nothing fantastic or ground breaking, but it's a very neat little piece of information to know.
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Sounds pretty interesting. Do you know what the maximum radius of the creep ring can be and still fill in with creep?
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Interesting. I have a hard time imagining this will be used in competitive play, but who knows.
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its pretty sick, not hard to set up but still has some dificulties, i think its a sick find.
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On November 26 2011 07:37 mahi29 wrote:
Sounds pretty interesting. Do you know what the maximum radius of the creep ring can be and still fill in with creep?
infinite, given that you have enough creepsources (hatcheries, tumors and ovies) to be able to surround the area.
to fill the space you need enough creepsources to fill the entire area at any one time.
however, if you section the area up into smaller pieces you can fill that one up first and then progressively fill the rest, this requires less creepsources.
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i had never thought about that. wow
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i thought everyone knew about this O.o
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On November 26 2011 07:44 Roblin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 07:37 mahi29 wrote:
Sounds pretty interesting. Do you know what the maximum radius of the creep ring can be and still fill in with creep? infinite, given that you have enough creepsources (hatcheries, tumors and ovies) to be able to surround the area. to fill the space you need enough creepsources to fill the entire area at any one time. however, if you section the area up into smaller pieces you can fill that one up first and then progressively fill the rest, this requires less creepsources.
Wait I'm confused.
If I make a giant circle of Overlords, the middle will just fill in automatically, even if its out of range? Or if I have a creep tumor in the middle, and that is killed, the middle will stay alive?
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On November 26 2011 07:44 Roblin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 07:37 mahi29 wrote:
Sounds pretty interesting. Do you know what the maximum radius of the creep ring can be and still fill in with creep? infinite, given that you have enough creepsources (hatcheries, tumors and ovies) to be able to surround the area.
WHAT, infinite? O.O
Gotta try that out asap!
Imagine Xel Naga, where you have a ring of overlords around the whole map, and the inside of that ring (which basically is the whole map then :D) is filled with creep, and the opponent can't really do anything, cause there are no tumors to kill.
O.O
Edit:
HOLY SHIT! IT SEEMS TO ACTUALLY WORK!!! O.O
As long as the ring is closed, the inner creep won't disappear!!!
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On November 26 2011 07:54 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 07:44 Roblin wrote:On November 26 2011 07:37 mahi29 wrote:
Sounds pretty interesting. Do you know what the maximum radius of the creep ring can be and still fill in with creep? infinite, given that you have enough creepsources (hatcheries, tumors and ovies) to be able to surround the area. to fill the space you need enough creepsources to fill the entire area at any one time. however, if you section the area up into smaller pieces you can fill that one up first and then progressively fill the rest, this requires less creepsources. Wait I'm confused. If I make a giant circle of Overlords, the middle will just fill in automatically, even if its out of range? Or if I have a creep tumor in the middle, and that is killed, the middle will stay alive?
The second case. Rule 8 is about sustainability, not generation.
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This might actually be one of the biggest finds in the last months of SC2.
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On November 26 2011 07:54 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 07:44 Roblin wrote:On November 26 2011 07:37 mahi29 wrote:
Sounds pretty interesting. Do you know what the maximum radius of the creep ring can be and still fill in with creep? infinite, given that you have enough creepsources (hatcheries, tumors and ovies) to be able to surround the area. to fill the space you need enough creepsources to fill the entire area at any one time. however, if you section the area up into smaller pieces you can fill that one up first and then progressively fill the rest, this requires less creepsources. Wait I'm confused. If I make a giant circle of Overlords, the middle will just fill in automatically, even if its out of range? Or if I have a creep tumor in the middle, and that is killed, the middle will stay alive?
On November 26 2011 07:55 enemy2010 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 07:44 Roblin wrote:On November 26 2011 07:37 mahi29 wrote:
Sounds pretty interesting. Do you know what the maximum radius of the creep ring can be and still fill in with creep? infinite, given that you have enough creepsources (hatcheries, tumors and ovies) to be able to surround the area. WHAT, infinite? O.O Gotta try that out asap! Imagine Xel Naga, where you have a ring of overlords around the whole map, and the inside of that ring (which basically is the whole map then :D) is filled with creep, and the opponent can't really do anything, cause there are no tumors to kill. O.O
to both of you: yes and no.
I'll split this up into parts to clarify.
If I make a giant circle of Overlords, the middle will just fill in automatically, even if its out of range?
no. it will not.
Or if I have a creep tumor in the middle, and that is killed, the middle will stay alive?
yes, given that the entire area within the ring is filled with creep.
If even 1 hex of space is not filled with creep, that one hex can cause the creep to receed as that hex counts as "the end of the creep"
however, in my tests a single hex never caused the creep to receed, so you might need 2 hexes together to cause the creep to receed.
point the same.
Imagine Xel Naga, where you have a ring of overlords around the whole map, and the inside of that ring (which basically is the whole map then :D) is filled with creep, and the opponent can't really do anything, cause there are no tumors to kill.
well, yes. if you have filled the map with creep then all you need to sustain that creep is a ring of overlords around all edges of the creep. however, this is not "around the whole map".
remember that cliffs also count as "the end of the creep" so your overlords would also have to surround every cliff on the map for this to work.
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I played around on the Unit Test map, and the areas you can cover with creep by using this method are in fact huge
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZU4bR.jpg)
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wow nice find this is indeed quite huge! every little thing in sc2 is quite useful
Thanks for sharing so much ahah, i wonder if pros knew this.
i wonder if this was intended by blizz?
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EPT
