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On November 26 2011 02:58 sexdemon wrote:
Very good. I say make a Protoss version because it feels Protoss lacking..
and I have a very aggressive protoss style similar to this, macro and timing pushes, but it focuses more on harassment than anything else(warp prism) to help you shoot out an expansion.
If you'd like to elaborate more on that concept in my stream thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=286050), I'll consider writing a thread or doing a 45min tutorial on aggressive protoss. Doing warp prism harass before an expansion is something I've seen but never tried myself. Kiwikaki went colossus / warp prism with speed to harass me and it was surprisingly effective.
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Good build is good. I've played 8 games or so with this build and when I lose it's only because i fail at macroing or microing.
Would really like moar replays though, seems like I don't deal with banelings that well and I wanna see how you'd handle it.
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its been workin for me :D ill save some replays
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On November 28 2011 02:56 leecx wrote:
Good build is good. I've played 8 games or so with this build and when I lose it's only because i fail at macroing or microing.
Would really like moar replays though, seems like I don't deal with banelings that well and I wanna see how you'd handle it.
Yes it's harder to beat players who make a lot of lings and banelings, but your 2 banshees should kill a lot as long as he doesn't get an early scout of the starport. They'll typically only have 2-3 queens (which are spread between the bases) so your banshees can take them out and go to town on the workers. Also, hopefully you supply block them with your viking and they can't make as many lings as they would like.
In terms of dealing with ling baneling, it comes down to your control and your multitasking. You need to split marines, spread them out, pull them behind tanks when banelings get close - all while keeping steady production / timings back at home.
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OK gonna try that new trick with the queensnipe soon. I find that in this case being a noob zerg actually helps him because he will overproduce on units and NOT spread overlords so I can't supply block him and his mass ling/bling/lolwut will just own my stuff.
You might want to add a section about Tal'darim Altar natural cliff abuse, that shit is really effective at breaking zerg naturals. Even if he somehow manages to take you out before the hatch falls, you will take out an extractor and prevent him from going mass mass MASS(FFFUUUU-) mutas, which makes his counterattack that much weaker.
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Yeah you want to take advantage of cliffs as much as possible, you could consider going 1 banshee 1 medivac and doing elevator tactics as well.
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Tang, i think you should consider watching some ST_RainBOw, as he usually uses a strat very similar to this one on his stream. It has the scouting, the hellion push, the banshee, the transition -> usually into mech, which can be a valid variation.
It can help add some replays to the thread. Keep it up, very good work I may add.
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On November 30 2011 14:37 RamonMcGrady wrote:
Tang, i think you should consider watching some ST_RainBOw, as he usually uses a strat very similar to this one on his stream. It has the scouting, the hellion push, the banshee, the transition -> usually into mech, which can be a valid variation.
It can help add some replays to the thread. Keep it up, very good work I may add.
Thanks for the advice Ramon, I'll look for a few of his games - do you have a link, in particular with the mech transition you suggest?
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You should be able to determine if zerg is planning to be aggressive with your hellion/ling push - at which point
your hellion/ling push
Hellion/ling sounds like a gosu composition - not sure how you'd get it.
Joking aside, this seems like a really good build. As another poster said, I, too, have found that building micro-intensive units makes my mechanics much more efficient. You learn to take less time to macro/build supply when you need to keep attention on a fragile unit or unit composition.
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ive played with this build a couple times just now and i gotta say, i thought it seemed a little allinish in theory, but after playing it, it felt awesome. its way easier to be aggressive when you specifically plan out each push and lead with a solid 1-base attack.
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1-1-1 can be done in many ways. I always opt for the hellion marine blue flame double medic drop/elevator with a quick 2 vikings into cloakshees.
Late late late late late expo. However, it does greeeeeeeeeeeeat damage. Here's a random example of a game vs 650 or something masters on my friends name (im a troll smurf)
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Hmm...Now to commit all of this to memory and roflstomp every Zerg on ladder when I get Terran because I now know how to set up, execute, and kill with proper marine tank after a fun opening.
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doesn't mass speedling just crush the push at 8:00? Even if not, you give 5 mins to let the zerg do whatever he wants before you push again at 13:00? I'd hardly call that hyperaggressive.
edit: I tried this build twice on ladder because you obviously a lot of thought into the guide, so I was hoping it would work, but I got crushed by mass speedling as i suspected. Perhaps metal was not a good map to do it on, it's too easy to flank.
my point about 5 min in between attacks being way too long still holds though. And it's not like you can just push earlier; there is just no way you can produce enough to be threatening because of how late your expansion and production buildings get up.
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On December 01 2011 16:11 boboyo wrote:
doesn't mass speedling just crush the push at 8:00? Even if not, you give 5 mins to let the zerg do whatever he wants before you push again at 13:00? I'd hardly call that hyperaggressive.
In theory, you can skip seige tech and just rally your 1/1/1 starting at 5minutes and just constantly attack all game. The 8-minute push is a time when most zerg don't have adequate defenses to cost-effectively deal with banshee/tank/marine. If he's massing that many lings, he won't have a 3rd base and you should be able to scout his ling count with vikings/banshee or that hellion from earlier. If he's massing crazy amounts of units to the point where you don't think you can do damage with the 8minute push, just use the units defensively with seige tech and expand and do a slightly later push (before 13minutes)
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Bump for greatness.
Tried the build on ladder today (in a team game with a useless partner). Worked pretty well. I think this build is worth a shot in all match ups because of the versatility of marines and banshees and the tank damage.
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On December 02 2011 08:42 NoisyNinja wrote:
Tried the build on ladder today (in a team game with a useless partner). Worked pretty well. I think this build is worth a shot in all match ups because of the versatility of marines and banshees and the tank damage.
It's definitely viable in all match ups, though you need vikings in TvT. It's actually great in team games if you can convince your ally to do an 8minute push with you, and you may need a bunker if they go for some sort of bust.
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On December 01 2011 05:30 TangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 14:37 RamonMcGrady wrote:
Tang, i think you should consider watching some ST_RainBOw, as he usually uses a strat very similar to this one on his stream. It has the scouting, the hellion push, the banshee, the transition -> usually into mech, which can be a valid variation.
It can help add some replays to the thread. Keep it up, very good work I may add. Thanks for the advice Ramon, I'll look for a few of his games - do you have a link, in particular with the mech transition you suggest?
Let me search for a little bit on his VOD's and as soon as I have an especific, very informative game to show of his, or maybe a couple, i'll make sure to get you the link.
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I have really horrible judgement on whether or not to hit him at 8 minutes >.>. By the way, what's the order of adding buildings after the push? (transition). I've been doing rax-bay-rax but it still seems like there's a very long period of time where only one marine is produced per cycle (VERY VERY VULNERABLE). What always happens to me is after I kill the natural I gtfo and run back to base, but they tend to chase me with lings and the marines without stim cant kill the mass mass zerglings (just produced) very quickly so I end up pushing with a half sized army at 13 (which generally gets raped). I don't see any window to expand before 13 so I usually expand at 13, which is already later than the zerg, but after they crush my army I can't defend it. In this kind of situation would it be better just to sit in base and turtle or sneak a ninja expo? I find that if I get past this stage of the game I'm generally fine.
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On December 04 2011 23:45 leecx wrote:
I have really horrible judgement on whether or not to hit him at 8 minutes >.>. By the way, what's the order of adding buildings after the push? (transition). I've been doing rax-bay-rax but it still seems like there's a very long period of time where only one marine is produced per cycle (VERY VERY VULNERABLE). What always happens to me is after I kill the natural I gtfo and run back to base, but they tend to chase me with lings and the marines without stim cant kill the mass mass zerglings (just produced) very quickly so I end up pushing with a half sized army at 13 (which generally gets raped). I don't see any window to expand before 13 so I usually expand at 13, which is already later than the zerg, but after they crush my army I can't defend it. In this kind of situation would it be better just to sit in base and turtle or sneak a ninja expo? I find that if I get past this stage of the game I'm generally fine.
Well if you're feeling vulnerable after the push, or you scout he's making a lot of lings, just stay with 1/1/1 and get bunkers at your expansion. Marines/bunkers/1-2 banshees and a few tanks will hold any ground pushes from zerg and if you've killed their hatch and your expansion is up, you're MILES ahead and just need to not die. Maybe just add an engi bay and 2 barracks and switch the starport with the first barracks (so you can double produce medivacs and get stim).
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OMG i'm starting to love this build LOL i do it in all matchups just use different air units and its been a lot of fun. i actually like getting 1 medivac instead of banshee so if zerg gets this giant ground army i can lift off 2 of my tanks or my marines and save them...or do some drop harass after the push,etc.
almost never die to counter attacks, the push always seems to kill enough to at least keep zerg ont he back foot and the games ive lost have been to playrs who go fast mutas, but thats only cuz i get a very late engi bay and messed up on scouting and harassing.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-243734.jpg)
