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Hey, I've been seeing a few threads popping up of "What maps should I veto as zerg?" or "Should I veto X or Y as Terran?" I figured it would be better to combine it all into one thread.
Protoss players,
Poll: What maps did you veto?Xel'Naga Caverns (130) 48% Abyssal Caverns (53) 20% Tal'Darim Altar LE (31) 11% Nerazim Crypt (19) 7% Metalopolis (13) 5% Antiga Shipyard (10) 4% The Shattered Temple (10) 4% Shakuras Plateau (5) 2% 271 total votes Your vote: What maps did you veto? (Vote): Xel'Naga Caverns
(Vote): Abyssal Caverns
(Vote): Antiga Shipyard
(Vote): Metalopolis
(Vote): Nerazim Crypt
(Vote): Shakuras Plateau
(Vote): Tal'Darim Altar LE
(Vote): The Shattered Temple
Terran players,
Poll: What maps did you veto?Abyssal Caverns (89) 54% Xel'Naga Caverns (23) 14% Tal'Darim Altar LE (22) 13% Nerazim Crypt (20) 12% Metalopolis (6) 4% Antiga Shipyard (3) 2% Shakuras Plateau (1) 1% The Shattered Temple (1) 1% 165 total votes Your vote: What maps did you veto? (Vote): Xel'Naga Caverns
(Vote): Abyssal Caverns
(Vote): Antiga Shipyard
(Vote): Metalopolis
(Vote): Nerazim Crypt
(Vote): Shakuras Plateau
(Vote): Tal'Darim Altar LE
(Vote): The Shattered Temple
Zerg players,
Poll: What maps did you veto?Xel'Naga Caverns (106) 54% Abyssal Caverns (34) 17% Nerazim Crypt (22) 11% Tal'Darim Altar LE (16) 8% The Shattered Temple (8) 4% Antiga Shipyard (4) 2% Metalopolis (3) 2% Shakuras Plateau (2) 1% 195 total votes Your vote: What maps did you veto? (Vote): Xel'Naga Caverns
(Vote): Abyssal Caverns
(Vote): Antiga Shipyard
(Vote): Metalopolis
(Vote): Nerazim Crypt
(Vote): Shakuras Plateau
(Vote): Tal'Darim Altar LE
(Vote): The Shattered Temple
Things to consider:
These are the statistics for the maps. They are taken from the international TLPD, as they use these maps more and are more relevant to the NA/EU metagame. Most of the games have been played in the past 6 months, so it's pretty relevant to current balance and metagame.
Xel'Naga Caverns:
TvZ: 157-108 (59.2%)
ZvP: 128-119 (51.8%)
PvT: 180-171 (51.3%)
Abyssal Caverns has nearly no games played on it in tournaments.
Antiga Shipyard:
TvZ: 7-9 (43.8%)
ZvP: 11-6 (64.7%)
PvT: 3-5 (37.5%)
Metalopolis:
TvZ: 282-310 (47.6%)
ZvP: 275-234 (54.0%)
PvT: 197-216 (47.7%)
Nerazim Crypt has no games played on it in tournaments
Shakuras Plateau:
TvZ: 334-276 (54.8%)
ZvP: 240-251 (48.9%)
PvT: 247-306 (44.7%)
Tal'Darim Altar LE:
TvZ: 180-177 (50.4%)
ZvP: 151-169 (47.2%)
PvT: 176-203 (46.4%)
The Shattered Temple:
TvZ: 95-40 (70.4%)
ZvP: 59-48 (55.1%)
PvT: 66-75 (46.8%)
+ Show Spoiler +Edit: I think I fixed the problem with the poll.
Also, feel free to explain why you vetoed each in the comments.
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The polls appear to be linked.
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As a protoss player who aims to improve, I feel that no map should be given the veto as long as you're laddering. It may be beneficial in the short run to veto the maps you think that put you at a disadvantage, but I like it that way because it forces me to develop a play style that is more fun, effective, and flexible.
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On October 30 2011 04:09 canucks12 wrote:
The polls appear to be linked.
I think I fixed that. My apologies to those who already voted.
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When I play toss:
Abyssal (shit map)
Crypt (shit map)
Tal Darim (4 gate lol)
Terran:
Abyssal (same reason)
Crypt (same reason)
Shakuras (just don't enjoy it)
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Zerg:
- Xel'Naga Caverns
- Abyssal Caverns
- Nerazim Crypt
Feels good to finally be able to veto Xel'Naga Caverns ^^
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Abyssal Caverns is just an abomination of a map, Nerazim is pretty bad as well, and Xel Naga gets vetoed the most in tournaments, so least useful of the tourney maps in ladder to practice.
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Can someone tell me why people don't like Xel'Naga? Never understood that I thought it was the most solid SC2 map of all time.
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The Shattered Temple:
TvZ: 95-40 (70.4%)
lol, I'm hoping close positions had an influence and those stats on tal darim are surprising from a zerg pov =]
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On October 30 2011 04:23 Geovu wrote:
Can someone tell me why people don't like Xel'Naga? Never understood that I thought it was the most solid SC2 map of all time.
I think it's because the natural is wide open, 2 player maps are often the site of cheese, both thirds are blocked by rocks, and 1/1/1 is a pain on that map. I'm not sure, but I think that is an annoying 2 rax map too.
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On October 30 2011 04:23 Geovu wrote:
Can someone tell me why people don't like Xel'Naga? Never understood that I thought it was the most solid SC2 map of all time.
awful map as zerg, impossible to defend hellions and bunker rushes dont require scouting because its a 2player map
if you just veto XNC and Nerazim, you can safely 15hatch against terran and zerg on every other map, still cant 15h against protoss because of cannon rush but eh
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The abyssal caverns and Narazim Crypt because they are awful maps that are not used in tournament play.
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I play zerg and veto Abyssal, Nerazim and XNC right now; I may end up vetoing TDA just because it's infuriating to defend tank pushes below your natural.
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Did not expect the results.
I play terran and vetoed Abysall and Nerazim crypt thing.
Abysall because the middle map make it hard to push in TvZ and make for some silly half map TvT.
Nerazim crypt because the damn sight blocker in front of your nat is pretty damn annoying.
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I veto the maps based on which matchup I feel like playing. For example, if I don't want to play against zerg I'll uncheck XNC, and then veto TDA instead  .
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Poll is broken. You can only vote for 1 map.
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On October 30 2011 04:56 GreyMasta wrote:
Poll is broken. You can only vote for 1 map.
Is there a way to allow three votes? Because the alternative would be 9 polls with first veto, second veto, and third veto, and that would just get complicated. Unless there's an alternative but I couldn't think of anything.
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I'm Protoss and I Veto'd:
Xel'Naga:
Because of roachling-allins, 1-1-1, cannons and proxy gates.
Abyssal Caverns:
Because I don't like the third on that map
Tal'Darim Altar:
Because of PvP
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Zerg
I dont like any map that can give Toss and Terran a free natural so:
Tal Darim,
Shak
And Shattered (because of no good third or 4th quickly
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i have voted metalopolis such a zerg map, awful to play.
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Why is there no "I don't veto any map" option? since I haven't veto'd any map..
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does vetoing a zerg favored map reduces my chances of playing a TvZ???
just curious...
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Why do protoss veto xel naga?
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i play random and i only veto'd TDA bc there is no ramp/high gnd advantage for defender
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Protoss and i only downvoted xel naga, was tempted to downvote TDA for PVP but i kinda like it pvz and pvt.
On October 30 2011 05:34 Techno wrote:
Why do protoss veto xel naga?
Hard to ffe roach/ling is strong and so is 1/1/1, thats my reason anyway
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Taldarim as a protoss, for obvious reasons. Im considering removing XelNaga also, just because I'm bored of it, not because of 1/1/1 or anything like that
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I kinda wish I could turn off tal darim, ZvZ there is pretty bad.
but yeah I veto XNC Abysal and Nerzim
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Why is there no "none vetoed" option? 
I haven't vetoed any because I'm focusing more on improving rather than winning. So playing on a map that is favored against terran (if there are any lolol) just forces me to learn how to play from a disadvantage and teaches me how to mitigate the disadvantage to the best of my ability.
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Zerg and I veto TDA. I hate that map with a passion.
ZvZ is horrible on TDA and the other match-ups are actually pretty terrible as well.
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I veto xelnaga cavern and antiga shipyard :D
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as zerg i vetoed:
Xel'naga caverns
Abyssal caverns
Nerazim crypt
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I play Terran so my vetoes are
Xel Naga: Old map, tired of playing on it all the time
Abyssal: Bad third (close spawns still enabled on it I think?)
Tal Darim: Map too big
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On October 30 2011 05:30 rpgalon wrote:
does vetoing a zerg favored map reduces my chances of playing a TvZ???
just curious...
Nope. Downvoting does not affect what matchup you will face
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Abyssal Caverns because in close positions there is no safe third as zerg. Actually by that logic I should probably veto Shattered Temple as well, will have to think about it.
XNC, idk, I like it to play a super-agressive game from time to time, makes for a nice change.
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On October 30 2011 06:26 ticki wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 05:30 rpgalon wrote:
does vetoing a zerg favored map reduces my chances of playing a TvZ???
just curious... Nope. Downvoting does not affect what matchup you will face
Yeah I think this is because it picks your opponent first, then picks a map that neither of you have vetoed. So your choice of map vetoes only come into it once your opponent and therefore the racial matchup is set in stone.
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I'm protoss and i vetoed:
- Xel'Naga Caverns
- Abyssal Caverns
- Nerazim Crypt
Never liked playing on Abyssal Caverns nor Nerazim Crypt, And Xel'Naga Caverns is just too small.
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wow and i thought meta would become a zvz only map. Why there is no i don't veto option? This is a thread about vetos, no one cares here that you don't veto and it doesn't make you cooler to not veto. (actually vetoing before the end of the season is important to get maps out of the pool).
for protoss and zerg i vetoed antiga. The gold is just to overpowered in some matchups and needs rocks same goes for meta.
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On October 30 2011 04:55 Petninja wrote:I veto the maps based on which matchup I feel like playing. For example, if I don't want to play against zerg I'll uncheck XNC, and then veto TDA instead .
It doesn't work like that, your vetoes should have no effect on who you are matched up with.
The map is determined based off the available maps after the vetoes of both the players are considered, not before!
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No maps vetoed, i want to get as good as i can on every map 
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uhm, this poll doesn't work because you can only vote once, but in game you can vote on 3 maps down right?
Shattered Temple is clearly the worst map on there (for any race really) for zerg. Yet people voted on XNC probably because they are tired of that map.
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On October 30 2011 08:16 SpoR wrote:
uhm, this poll doesn't work because you can only vote once, but in game you can vote on 3 maps down right?
Shattered Temple is clearly the worst map on there (for any race really) for zerg. Yet people voted on XNC probably because they are tired of that map.
Yeah but with enough people and factoring in that they'll vote their 2nd/3rd vetos if they feel the first isn't leading adequately, it's not too bad.
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I am P and only Antiga because how strong drops and contain for T there.
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I only veto TDA when I'm T because of the stupid wall-off at the main. The lack of a ramp is annoying and I don't want to have to fuss around finding the ideal layouts for each spawn. As a result, it stays vetoed when I play the other races.
I don't veto any other map because winning isn't that important to me.
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I play Protoss and I veto nerazim, abyssal and XNC.
XNC has been around for quite a while and the only 2 spawn positions often allow to easy early bust since no real scouting is needed. Also, the natural is so open.
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why protoss vetoes xel naga its good vs zerg and you can proxy gate vs terran
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Protoss here, vetoed:
Metalopolis: Open natural, only 2 attack paths, no close spawns = even more Zerg favored
Nerazim Crypt: far to open for my taste, nothing that makes that map special
3rd veto is still open.
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I only have nerazim and abyssal downvoted as terran. nerazim has a narrow choke favoring a fast expand, but the maps so small its not good for macro. abyssal is just a terrible map.
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I main protoss (season 2 woohoo) but play all three races (since season 4 :D)
I vitoed Abyssal because horrible design and badly balanced, Nerazim because its a mediocre map (not terrible not very cool either, nothing "special" and XNC (soooo hard as zerg T_T even though i like it as toss/terran)
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Also don't understand why Protoss veto XNC. It's one of the best maps to play against Terran on since Terran can't 1 rax FE in complete safety. I'm strongly considering vetoing Shakuras Plateau because Terran can 14 CC on it in almost complete safety, good luck beating that.
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wait what? 14 cc against protoss, safe? how?
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On October 30 2011 08:16 SpoR wrote:
uhm, this poll doesn't work because you can only vote once, but in game you can vote on 3 maps down right?
Shattered Temple is clearly the worst map on there (for any race really) for zerg. Yet people voted on XNC probably because they are tired of that map.
The troubles on shattered can be more or less "solved" with ventral sacks.
My Zerg vetoes:
Xel'naga Caverns (rush distance, lack of expansions)
Abyssal Caverns (Close spawns, potential cliffing, annoying xel'naga tower, annoying distance to ramp from main)
Nerazim Crypt (rush distance for close spawns, potential 3rd base issues on some spawns, annoying distance from ramp to main)
voted Nerazim in the poll because abyssal and xel'naga have a pretty good lead
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I'm protoss and I vetoed Abyssal, Shattered and Xelnaga.
I might unveto xelnaga for Metalopolis soon, I have no luck on Shattered or Metalopolis, that's basically it.
Somehow all my losses this season were on those 2 maps
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I think it's weird that Tal Darim doesn't have more vetoes for Terran because of how big of a map it is. Not very friendly for Terran players, especially against Zerg.
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Tal darim isnt to bad vs zerg its protoss that is the problem.
Idk why people dont talk about the advantage protoss has on big maps more often. When a toss 4 gates a terran there is no difference if it is on steppes of war or tal darim. Rush distance doesn't matter for them (for early game 4 or 6 warpgate atks and for late game reinforcing their gateway army, {and yes darktemplar314 i know collosus and immortals still have to walk, and yes timba638 i know that emp negates any advantage toss has}) and they can defend their far away expansions easier than any other race with warping in gateway units, and finally they build their production or gateways anywhere on the map with out the worry of their units having to walk over from their second main.
I'm not complaining just making observation as a terran player i don't veto tal darim because of this though mainly cause its a fun map but terran does get a few perks on it also (more space to spread bio army and to drop)
The map in the poll that i was suprised not to see veto more is nerazim crypt for terrans.
Maby its just me but i find it almost impossible to take a fourth on that map vs zerg, if they go muta you have to leave like a thor and medi of rines at least to protect it late game(which will cut into the size of your fighting army), and if they go ultra ling you gotta have your whole army there to protect it(which leaves your other bases open to atk), maby its possible to defend effectivley or the key to it is to just keep on constant pressure so you don't get atked but this is only map i veto for these reasons. (also i don't like the elongated base it causes such a problem vs mutas).
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My vetoes went to
1)abyssal-Terrible map imo. Not much better than nerazim, but really blizzard. Rocks that sever the map except at 3rds? WTF T__T;
2)Metalopolis-W/o close positions, autogg for TvZ
3)Alternates between Xel Naga, and Antiga-antiga because tvz feels awkward and xel naga is just old/boring :/
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I just left the tournament maps and vetoed the others.
Xel'naga - imbalanced map, enough said.
Abyssal - I hate that kind of a main. It's bad for all of the races. Terrans and Toss cant defend both main and natural from mutas and banshees, zergs can't connect creep as quickly as they want.
Nerazim - same reason as the above aaand 3rd is hard to take.
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As a protoss player i vetoed Tal Darim, because of PvP, and the two season 3 maps not antiga. Cant remember their names, because of their stupid 3rds.
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as a terran player, i vetoed the new maps, so nerazim crypt and abyssal caverns. they're not used in major tournaments and i don't like them anyways.
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for shattered temple, does that include close spawns or no? Is it MLG version? I'm surprised to see 70% TvZ if there is no close positions and no 2rax wall off at the ramp
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LOL Shattered is a joke for Zerg. I had it downvoted and my friends thought I was crazy. Look who's laughing now.
Also, mind = blown about the T player Freetgy bitching about the 2.4% to Zerg on Metal compared to the laughable 20% to Terran on Shattered Temple. If 2.4% is imbalanced, I can't even imagine what 20% would feel like O.O
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As P I veto TDA just because PvP on that map >.<
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Not vetoing anything as a zerg, I like them all. The maps I had vetoed were the ones that got removed this season.
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On October 30 2011 08:28 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 08:16 SpoR wrote:
uhm, this poll doesn't work because you can only vote once, but in game you can vote on 3 maps down right?
Shattered Temple is clearly the worst map on there (for any race really) for zerg. Yet people voted on XNC probably because they are tired of that map.
Yeah but with enough people and factoring in that they'll vote their 2nd/3rd vetos if they feel the first isn't leading adequately, it's not too bad.
well the only map I have vetoed as zerg is shattered so yea, And to be honest It is the worst map for Z in the pool. TDA would be second because of the fact that ur nat can be seiged from below and some other stuff.
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Everyone hates caverns...
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United Kingdom20284 Posts
On October 30 2011 15:37 pikagrue wrote:
Everyone hates caverns...
I get cannon rushed pvp about 70% of the time on xelnaga because of the place behind minerals and behind the ramp, even when you hold a cannon rush you are in for a long boring game if you are in diamond because people actuly think they can build 20 cannons in their main after stealing your gas and still win.
2 player maps are horrible for pvp proxies (so little defenders advantage in that MU) and even if you see the proxy at 10 supply it is no walk in the park to hold.
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I vetoed Metalopolis and Xel'Naga. (i play protoss)
Xel'Naga old, boring, over played
And I've always hated Metalopolis, Can someone explain to me why everyone goes apeshit for it; its beyond me.
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Terran player here:
- Abyssal Caverns and Crypt should be removed from the pool entirely. Incredibly idiotic maps.
- Next worst is XC, but overall it's the best pool yet.
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Wow, I had no idea shattered was so T favored for TvZ.Very surprising.
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Terran. None as of yet, and while Metal is slightly Zerg favoured I like that map too much. Although sometimes games on XNC are cheesy (1base Roach all in -_-) I like having a 2 player map around.
On October 30 2011 16:13 Lobotomist wrote:
Wow, I had no idea shattered was so T favored for TvZ.Very surprising.
Well, the natural is really really tight choke, and if a Terran sieges there Zerg has no way out until maybe Zerg breaks down both of corner rocks but that makes Terran attacks on corner base super easy. Also easily defended gold minerals + MULEs is pretty strong.
Come to think about it, pretty hard for Zerg to get an easy 3rd close by without breaking any rocks, while Terran can easily be similar economic foothold.
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On October 30 2011 14:30 phantaxx wrote:
As P I veto TDA just because PvP on that map >.<
Same here. 4-gate vs 4-gate isn't very enjoyable...
I've vetoed Abyssal caverns as well, and Im thinking about vetoing Xelnaga Caverns... Not sure yet.
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Conclusion? People are veto shattered the least! Pretty surprising.
Im surprised there aren more vetoes on nerazim crypt than abyssmal caverns. Nerazim is just a bad map in general.
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I play random, the only map I have vetoed is Shattered Temple.
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Terran
Abyssal, Nezarim and Metal
Abyssal and Nezarim bc they are bad and Metal bc I hate playing TvT on that map and I also dont enjoy close air spawns on Metal in particular. I also dislike playing against protoss on that map bc almost all of the map is a decent choke and its very hard to engage on that map.
The only other one I'd kind of consider vetoing is Shakuras bc I find it to be somewhat zerg favored..hard to have a good opener on that map ive found which is obviously extremely important in TvZ. but overall its a good map and I enjoy the games on it so I got rid of metal instead 0
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As a Protoss, I have XNC vetoed. The 1v1 layout leads to so much cheese and all-ins that playing a macro game on it is a rarity. Combine that with the wide open natural and needing to break rocks to get to your third.. Ugh. I'd veto TDA too if it wasn't so bloody fun in PvZ and PvT.
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Terran,
none veto'd but considered vetoing XNC for TvP because for me its toss almost always cheese, But i just scout around for the proxy stargates/dt tech if i see no third pylon and its pretty easy to find as the map is so small
but taking your natural is still so hard.
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United States33 Posts
Plat Toss:
XNC
Metal
Shattered.
I prefer to FFE vs zerg.
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Toss here:
Abyssal Caverns:
Because it just... sucks, ok?
Shattered Temple:
Because I hate PvZ on that map, even without close spawns.
Nerazim Crypt:
No specific reason, just didn't have a good third veto, and I like the rest more, so ya...
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Protoss should veto xelnaga and antiga shipyard unless you want to get 9pools and roach lings all in all the time. It is impossible to wall off fast enough.
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On October 30 2011 15:47 Cyro wrote:I get cannon rushed pvp about 70% of the time on xelnaga because of the place behind minerals and behind the ramp, even when you hold a cannon rush you are in for a long boring game if you are in diamond because people actuly think they can build 20 cannons in their main after stealing your gas and still win. 2 player maps are horrible for pvp proxies (so little defenders advantage in that MU) and even if you see the proxy at 10 supply it is no walk in the park to hold.
Boss cannon rush only works effectively versus the top spawn though for some reason -.-
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United States33 Posts
On October 30 2011 19:05 HaXXspetten wrote:
Boss cannon rush only works effectively versus the top spawn though for some reason -.-
you can 3pylon block the bottom too, it looks like there's a gap between 2 minerals but you can't actually get through.
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I am kinda surprised that there are not more zerg players who vetoed shakuras its the map which i like most against zerg. Split map position is unbreakable and u even have more bases than the zerg.
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On October 30 2011 19:19 Uberpwnzorz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 19:05 HaXXspetten wrote:
Boss cannon rush only works effectively versus the top spawn though for some reason -.- you can 3pylon block the bottom too, it looks like there's a gap between 2 minerals but you can't actually get through.
huh
In that case they've changed that, because I'm quite sure that was impossible a few months ago. Then again I never tried it since finding out it couldn't be done so...
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Why does everyone dislike Nerazim Cypt and Abysal Caverns? I must say I love Nerazim. Especially against terran. Easy to block off hellions, easy to have vision of just about the entire map. And the closeness seems to make bio pushes or marine tank pushes more frequent than mech. Which is good for me 'cause I know that playstyle well enough to fend it off and win, usually. (like the colors, too)
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Masters Zerg
XNC - mainly for ZvT but also ZvZ
Shattered - mainly for ZvT but also ZvP
TDA - just too big for my taste
if i had another veto i'd probably veto shakuras for ZvT or abyssal cuz its an annoying map. I like Nerazim Crypt though.
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On October 30 2011 04:18 Deragan wrote:
Zerg:
- Xel'Naga Caverns
- Abyssal Caverns
- Nerazim Crypt
Feels good to finally be able to veto Xel'Naga Caverns ^^
I play toss, same vetos as this.
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On October 30 2011 04:18 Deragan wrote:
Zerg:
- Xel'Naga Caverns
- Abyssal Caverns
- Nerazim Crypt
Feels good to finally be able to veto Xel'Naga Caverns ^^
Same as here. I think if you want more % wins, as a zerg you should veto these maps. And aside XNC you wont find the other two in almost any tournament...
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protoss
-taldarim altar because i feel like I can't win against zerg on that map, bu most importantly, 4 gate vs 4 gate....
no other veto
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Xel'Naga Caverns is probably the most balanced 1v1 map in the pool (not to mention one of the few 1v1 maps available.) I'm not really surprised people veto it, because the people who practice Xel'Naga Caverns consistently are just really damn good players.
Tournament matches on Xel'Naga Caverns are the most entertaining in my opinion. All these 2v2 maps being played in 1v1 is pretty lame and obviously favors Zerg (and to some extent, Protoss) but punishes Terrans.
I don't veto any maps because I feel that makes you a weak player to avoid your weaknesses.
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As protos i ban metalopolis/Shattered/xel naga because I cant FFE on these maps.
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On October 31 2011 00:53 -LazySCV- wrote:
Xel'Naga Caverns is probably the most balanced 1v1 map in the pool (not to mention one of the few 1v1 maps available.) I'm not really surprised people veto it, because the people who practice Xel'Naga Caverns consistently are just really damn good players.
People vote it because XNC has been around for too long.
And its certainly not balanced in TvZ. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/429_Xel'Naga_Caverns_1.1
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Abyssal, Tal'darim and Metalopolis.
Abyssal-map sucks
Tal'darim-too big for Terran, imbalanced for Zerg
Metalopolis-I have XvZ match ups
I'm platinum random
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Anyone else played on a map which was 100% vetod when you starting searching for a game?
Happened 3 times to me now. Twice in the last 2 days (both 4v4) and once I think it was in Season 2 (1v1).
Didn't want to open a new thread for this since it is at least for me not such a big deal. Only want to know if this has happened to anyone else
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On October 30 2011 04:12 Ulyx wrote:
As a protoss player who aims to improve, I feel that no map should be given the veto as long as you're laddering. It may be beneficial in the short run to veto the maps you think that put you at a disadvantage, but I like it that way because it forces me to develop a play style that is more fun, effective, and flexible.
It depends on the map pool. If a map is poorly designed and imbalanced, developing a play style that works on that map isn't particularly useful. If they put Blood Bath from SC1 in the ladder pool, I think any serious player would be more than reasonable to veto it.
If you're vetoing maps simply because you don't like "big maps" or "maps without easy thirds," then I definitely see your point. It's good to be a flexible player, and you'll probably learn more in the long run by finding play styles that work on these types of maps rather than vetoing anything that doesn't match your existing play style. That being said, some maps are just bad, and ought to be mass vetoed so Blizzard takes the hint and replaces them.
XNC is an interesting one. It's a fairly balanced map, but the expo is probably the hardest to defend of any map still in the ladder pool. I've been flirting with the idea of vetoing it, just because it's so different from the rest of the ladder pool in ways that the map pool overall is moving away from (hard-to-defend nat, relatively small map). It's pretty much the only Blizzard non-macro game map that they kinda got right, but I don't know if there will be more maps like this in the ladder pool, or even if XNC will stay in the pool for future seasons, so I'm not sure it's worth the time, effort and frustration of mastering map-specific builds for it.
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The win percentages are a bit mind boggling. The maps that are terran favored vs zerg, I ALWAYS lose TvZ on.... lol
I only ever veto'ed back water, searing crater, and the other shit map..
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Shattered temple is a disaster ZvT, and the statistics show it. There are just too many good places to siege, specifically putting 1 or 2 of your tanks in your enemy's gold during an early marine-tank push.
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On November 01 2011 08:36 worldsnap wrote:
Shattered temple is a disaster ZvT, and the statistics show it. There are just too many good places to siege, specifically putting 1 or 2 of your tanks in your enemy's gold during an early marine-tank push.
I can't believe how few zergs veto this map.
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EPT
