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On October 15 2011 04:29 Tal0n wrote:i played against one of you evil protoss before. WHAT DO I DO AGAINST THAT AS ZERG  he actually just 2-base timing pushed me and (if i remmeber correctly) used high templar to morph archons. how can i exploit this style as zerg?
Build relies on WP harass while taking risky 3rd into deathball. Crushing this build relies in effectively dealing with WP harass, while punishing lack of units to defend 3rd (map dependant).
- Creep spread inside your main, so queens can move faster to hit WP's
- If you're not going fast muta or hydra (lol), then when you see the WP, you want to be on 4queens on 2 bases. Extra queens for chasing WP without sacrificing injects.
- Macro hatch, with mid-game being roach/ling based. If you can confirm he's 100% going Robo & DT tech, then you should be easily able to take a 3rd AND a macro hatch.
- If you're really struggling with WP harass, you want 10-14 zerglings on 'a-move' on the WP. they'll follow it around as best they can, and as long as you tell them to 'a-move' on it when it re-appears, you'll be shutting down any WP harass that is relying on zealot/stalker warp-ins.
Spare queens should come to assist if he tries to hard-warpin.
- BE AWARE of when he is taking his 3rd, you do not want to let him get away with this. He's going for DT's AND Robo AND blink AND a 3rd. You should not let him safely take his 3rd before DT's are out, or a decent amount of immortals. If you're good at deny the WP from doing damage (it's quite easy to stop it), he should be warping-in at his base.
The issue arises in trying to figure out if he is actually doing this specific build, as there are some more macro-oriented robo/twilight builds that incorporate blink stalkers & WP Harass - but they have the units to kill you earlier if you're greedy, or take a respectable 3rd. They cut out Tier 3 tech till after 3rd is secure.
Also, you're not going to totally prevent him from taking a 3rd, he'll get it eventually with DT tech or enough units, so you need to have a solid transition in mind to get you up to 4-bases. Suggest transitioning into Hydralisks at around the time he CAN safely take his 3rd.
- Spore + Spine @ expansions for DT's, including your main (DT drops).
Edit: this is from Protoss POV.
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On October 18 2011 08:13 Trusty wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 04:29 Tal0n wrote:i played against one of you evil protoss before. WHAT DO I DO AGAINST THAT AS ZERG he actually just 2-base timing pushed me and (if i remmeber correctly) used high templar to morph archons. how can i exploit this style as zerg? Build relies on WP harass while taking risky 3rd into deathball. Crushing this build relies in effectively dealing with WP harass, while punishing lack of units to defend 3rd (map dependant).
This is pretty bad advice... The build (playstyle) doesn't rely on WP harass in the way you are implying, and the third isn't risky. You also don't construct a deathball.
If anyone wants advice on a better way to play, look up with Anihc said a page or so ago.
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I struggle heavily vs this composition - but I started facing it around April. It's when my ZvP absolutely plummeted in win% because up til that point I had played sling/bling/muta. And this was before the patch that buffed archons, which only made things worse once people started using them more. I typically only go to hydras as reactionary measures - while it is good vs this unit composition, you have to start making them before you realize they're going it - otherwise if you start transitioning to hydra storm will be ready which annihilates hydras so badly.
As a lategame transition I've seen Protoss mix in void rays as well, which absolutley demolish my BL if you can get feedbacks off on the infestors.
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I like this build but I cannot find the reason for goting DT first as apposed to high templar
I think that the high templar could stop any major ling compositions for a cheaper price and get storm earlier
Also the warp prisim harrass should have a zerg in thier base without the need for DT until after the engagement
If you could tell me the huge gains of going DT first that would be great
Thanks in advance
DuBlooNz
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On October 19 2011 05:45 DuBlooNz wrote:
I like this build but I cannot find the reason for goting DT first as apposed to high templar
I think that the high templar could stop any major ling compositions for a cheaper price and get storm earlier
Also the warp prisim harrass should have a zerg in thier base without the need for DT until after the engagement
If you could tell me the huge gains of going DT first that would be great
Thanks in advance
DuBlooNz
I don't like spending such a huge vespene investment on HT on only 2 base. DT provide cheaper Archons and great harass synergy with the Warp Prism.
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How do you deal with roach/ling allins without cannons? I use the same build as you but i add an forge that delays my robo a bit.
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On October 20 2011 02:57 fanvadmeck wrote:
How do you deal with roach/ling allins without cannons? I use the same build as you but i add an forge that delays my robo a bit.
I just survive with Gatway units, Sim-City, and good FF usage. I chrono gates heavily as well, and, chrono Immortal the moment the Robo finishes.
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can i ask why u wallof ur main ramp like taht at the start? cool build tho gna prac it right away
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i loaded the video from hotkeyit, was soooo pumped it was free. internet died, went to re-load it and now its only 2 minute segment, and you dont even split your probes before that ends haha
Will have to check replay, but this style looks awesome.
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United States8477 Posts
On October 20 2011 02:59 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 02:57 fanvadmeck wrote:
How do you deal with roach/ling allins without cannons? I use the same build as you but i add an forge that delays my robo a bit. I just survive with Gatway units, Sim-City, and good FF usage. I chrono gates heavily as well, and, chrono Immortal the moment the Robo finishes.
Your current build in your replay currently can't hold off a roach ling allin, even with perfect sim city/forcefields.
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On October 20 2011 05:08 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 02:59 CecilSunkure wrote:On October 20 2011 02:57 fanvadmeck wrote:
How do you deal with roach/ling allins without cannons? I use the same build as you but i add an forge that delays my robo a bit. I just survive with Gatway units, Sim-City, and good FF usage. I chrono gates heavily as well, and, chrono Immortal the moment the Robo finishes. Your current build in your replay currently can't hold off a roach ling allin, even with perfect sim city/forcefields.
Well okay, is that because of a lack of a forge?
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United States8477 Posts
On October 20 2011 05:10 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 05:08 NrGmonk wrote:On October 20 2011 02:59 CecilSunkure wrote:On October 20 2011 02:57 fanvadmeck wrote:
How do you deal with roach/ling allins without cannons? I use the same build as you but i add an forge that delays my robo a bit. I just survive with Gatway units, Sim-City, and good FF usage. I chrono gates heavily as well, and, chrono Immortal the moment the Robo finishes. Your current build in your replay currently can't hold off a roach ling allin, even with perfect sim city/forcefields. Well okay, is that because of a lack of a forge?
You only really hold off roach ling allin with one of 4 ways off 1 gate fe. Voidray, dts, very heavily chornoed gateway units off 4+ gates, or a few preemptive cannons that finish very early before the window of roach ling aggression comes(7:00-7:50). Since your build has none of these, I very highly doubt it can hold a roach ling allin.
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On October 20 2011 05:16 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 05:10 CecilSunkure wrote:On October 20 2011 05:08 NrGmonk wrote:On October 20 2011 02:59 CecilSunkure wrote:On October 20 2011 02:57 fanvadmeck wrote:
How do you deal with roach/ling allins without cannons? I use the same build as you but i add an forge that delays my robo a bit. I just survive with Gatway units, Sim-City, and good FF usage. I chrono gates heavily as well, and, chrono Immortal the moment the Robo finishes. Your current build in your replay currently can't hold off a roach ling allin, even with perfect sim city/forcefields. Well okay, is that because of a lack of a forge? You only really hold off roach ling allin with one of 4 ways off forge fe. Voidray, dts, very heavily chornoed gateway units off 4+ gates, or a few preemptive cannons that finish very early before the window of roach ling aggression comes(7:00-7:50). Since your build has none of these, I very highly doubt it can hold a roach ling allin.
am i missing something? his opening isn't ffe (at least not the one he recommended) O_o.
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On October 20 2011 05:16 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 05:10 CecilSunkure wrote:On October 20 2011 05:08 NrGmonk wrote:On October 20 2011 02:59 CecilSunkure wrote:On October 20 2011 02:57 fanvadmeck wrote:
How do you deal with roach/ling allins without cannons? I use the same build as you but i add an forge that delays my robo a bit. I just survive with Gatway units, Sim-City, and good FF usage. I chrono gates heavily as well, and, chrono Immortal the moment the Robo finishes. Your current build in your replay currently can't hold off a roach ling allin, even with perfect sim city/forcefields. Well okay, is that because of a lack of a forge? You only really hold off roach ling allin with one of 4 ways off forge fe. Voidray, dts, very heavily chornoed gateway units off 4+ gates, or a few preemptive cannons that finish very early before the window of roach ling aggression comes(7:00-7:50). Since your build has none of these, I very highly doubt it can hold a roach ling allin.
I see. Then it's really just an opening problem, not a build problem. You should be a bit more clear, because it's confusing when you say build and you're talking about the opening.
I'll be aware of what you pointed out and see what I come up with in the future regarding the suggested opening in the OP.
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Very handsome. Yet another way Protoss can use the WP - use em!
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United States8477 Posts
On October 20 2011 05:19 Complete wrote:
am i missing something? his opening isn't ffe (at least not the one he recommended) O_o.
Typo =P
On October 20 2011 05:23 CecilSunkure wrote:
I see. Then it's really just an opening problem, not a build problem. You should be a bit more clear, because it's confusing when you say build and you're talking about the opening.
I'll be aware of what you pointed out and see what I come up with in the future regarding the suggested opening in the OP.
Noted =P
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On October 20 2011 05:31 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 05:19 Complete wrote:
am i missing something? his opening isn't ffe (at least not the one he recommended) O_o. Typo =P Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 05:23 CecilSunkure wrote:
I see. Then it's really just an opening problem, not a build problem. You should be a bit more clear, because it's confusing when you say build and you're talking about the opening.
I'll be aware of what you pointed out and see what I come up with in the future regarding the suggested opening in the OP. Noted =P
^_^
Could you get like a replay of a roach ling allin vs you and post it up? Would be nice to have. If not I can try to remember to ask a teammate to practice it with me sometime soon.
On October 20 2011 04:36 TechnoSchaman wrote:
i loaded the video from hotkeyit, was soooo pumped it was free. internet died, went to re-load it and now its only 2 minute segment, and you dont even split your probes before that ends haha
Will have to check replay, but this style looks awesome.
Awe dang >< Someone must have decided to make it not-free D:
On October 20 2011 03:45 Dezire wrote:
can i ask why u wallof ur main ramp like taht at the start? cool build tho gna prac it right away
I do that so that I can slip a line of units between two of the Gateways.
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extremely good guide! only problem would be low econ mass ling pressure from zerg on a small map, this will force you out of this build
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On October 20 2011 05:37 starbreaker10 wrote:
extremely good guide! only problem would be low econ mass ling pressure from zerg on a small map, this will force you out of this build
Are you sure? Fast DT tech would do really well vs low-econ mass lings. So would sim-city at your natural.
Or are you talking about mass-lings vs the opening? I've done just fine vs a whole array of ling allins with a 1 Gate FE.
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EPT
