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lordsurya08
United States141 Posts
I've switched to Toss, I've tried to shift myself into a build-pylon mindset...nothing works. The warp-in-then-pylon trick works occasionally, but as soon as I get more gates and robos it goes out the window and I lose track of supply. Any suggestions? Is there, say, some sort of legal third party software that makes a little beep whenever my supply cap is nearby? | ||
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
It might help to remember some stupid phrase. "These units will help me! Check supply!" Just repeat that phrase to yourself a few times, and say it to yourself when you warp in a round of units. It's dumb, I know, but it works. | ||
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MysteryMeat1
United States3292 Posts
As a protoss player getting supply blocked can be game changing and is felt more as a race simply because our main production is through warpgates which cant be qued. I actually believe this is beneficial as it stops bad habits and lets you know how many minerals you are floating. If i fourgate the main indicator of correct macroing is that my money should never be high simply because a 4gate is all-in which means you are producing constantly. If i lose a 4gate and i see that after my next warpin that i have 400 mins to spare i didn't 4gate well enough. | ||
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HarnessedSea
Japan16 Posts
Before 10 min: 1.Build units 2.Build 1 overlord 3.Check supply 4.Macro army/eco/tech 5.Repeat After 10 min: 1.Build units 2.Build 2-4 overlords 3.Check supply 4.Macro army/eco/tech 5.Repeat I think the mindset is the limiting factor in supply  | ||
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ZaphoD[42]
Germany16 Posts
For example to spot incoming drops or to warp in units in a hidden location later in the game. Its easier to remember building these pylons when u dont only build them to raise your supplylimit but also get some other value out of them. I always build pylons way to soon just to have my base covered against possible nydusworms. | ||
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Son of Gnome
United States777 Posts
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
what level are you playing at? what builds are you doing for example when you 3 gate expand the pylon every warp in works good because 3x2 + 2 probes = 8 = 1 pylon and 1 pylon = build time of about a cool down. then you add your robo/more gates and its not enough anymore. honestly its feel. Try and build too many pylons first then work ur way down to the minimum. get your third pylon early while your core is building and keep ahead by one or two. don't count proxy pylons in yoru supply difference because they will probably get killed and then you will get supply blocked. Its better to have too many pylons and be on your warp ins then have not enough. Maybe try having a probe build a pylon every time you have it build anything else + every warp in? to sum up my advice. try and have too many pylons first because its better too many than not enough. | ||
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LtLolburger
New Zealand365 Posts
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insane_
Australia10 Posts
And as others have said, I find it better to be over-building pylons than under-building. | ||
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TheGreenMachine
United States730 Posts
Robos are like 4 supply per round (collosus can be 2 rounds), just plan ahead like "ok this immortal will finish and i need another immortal will I have 4 supply for that? Also warp gates coming up, i will need a pylon to finish before then. Also, building a pylon is slightly shorter build time than 1 warpin (~5 seconds i think). So build a pylon shortly before or shortly after warpin is nice. Its usually better to be 1-2 pylons ahead than to get blocked so don't be afraid to give yourself wiggle room. However early game pylons (first through 4th) should be done perfectly every game ^^ | ||
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oZe
Sweden492 Posts
My best trick is to get upgrades or make more production/tech facilities during the block. Stuff you'll need anyway. Still doesn't help if you get bumrushed though. You should be looking at your min/gas/supply pretty regurlarly anyway. If you don't your play is fundamentally unsound. Work it into your routine. Put a rubberband on your wrist and give yourself a snap everytime you get block yourself ;-) | ||
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Emporio
United States3069 Posts
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Que
Australia20 Posts
Because I play Z, I repeat to myself: Tumor, Spray, Overlord. Tumor, Spray, Overlord. so in the gameplay when in the game I am doing all the fancy scouting or Uber micro or busy with whatever other things, when I check any of the three foundamental things I will be reminded to check the other two. if you are playing P you can probabily raise the similar keywords, like chrono, Pylon, something else, Chrono, Pylon, Somehting else. then you will check all three in one string. I don't know whatelse as P you will need to maintain regularly, I know many of my P friends rarely do good boosting after the first 5-6 min into the game. this might sound really nerdy and probabily do not promote super pro image at the begining, but I found it really helps and once you are on the right track you don't have to worry too much about it anymore, once it becomes a habbit and have your own Bio Clock atuned. hope that helps. | ||
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KazmA
United States117 Posts
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Keilah
731 Posts
Once you hit 3 bases just overmake pylons 5 at a time, who cares really =p | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2577 Posts
On October 11 2011 14:13 ComaDose wrote: to sum up my advice. try and have too many pylons first because its better too many than not enough. This is probably the best advice in the thread. It's not good to be floating unnecessary supply, but it's much, much worse to get supply capped. I've done some analysis of my replays, and getting badly supply blocked -- as in not noticing you need a pylon until you literally stop making units -- hurts me about as much as a bad engagement. Another bit of advice I would give is to try creating a game without an opponent (or easy AI) and just execute your rough game plan while macroing up to 200/200 as fast as possible. I started doing this a couple of months ago and I was astounded at how quickly you actually have to build Pylons to keep up with the production you can support on two or three bases. Just building as fast as possible without thinking about engagements or positioning really helps you get a feel for the correct supply tempo at different stages of your build. | ||
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
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Scoobasteve
United States32 Posts
leave your pylon building worker idle - I notice the idle worker notification a lot easier than actually checking supply, and its another mental note to build a supply depot. Everytime I see an idle SCV, i hit F1 and build a new depot. As toss it'll be a little different b/c the worker will be idle immediately after building one, but its another area on the screen that gives a reminder to build pylons. | ||
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SeeDLiNg
United States690 Posts
It really helps to get some sort of metronome or timer or SOMETHING that makes noise every 10-15 seconds. You don't want something that tells you when you're almost capped. You want something that forces you to be constantly aware. | ||
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TheGreenMachine
United States730 Posts
On October 11 2011 15:10 SeeDLiNg wrote: I had this issue for a long time in master league (it happens to everyone...) It really helps to get some sort of metronome or timer or SOMETHING that makes noise every 10-15 seconds. You don't want something that tells you when you're almost capped. You want something that forces you to be constantly aware. Or just use the act of making units as a reminder to make supply. Like if you made 4 gateway units u have about 5 sec to make a pylon if u want it to finish before your next warpin. Maybe doesn't work for everyone haha | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
Add the next wave of units to be built, roaches(2), zealots (2), whatever into your current supply. So if I'm building 2 marines and 1 marauder, add 4 supply to the current, if blocked, double it (8) and if it funds allow, build two supply buildings. | ||
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Angelfish1
United Kingdom29 Posts
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Brian333
657 Posts
For instance, tying the task of making pylons to your warp-in cycle or probe production cycle. Of course, once you start losing supply or cutting probes, it becomes more of a judgment issue, but when you're just macroing up, I think it helps to establish that rhythm. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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Hexagecz
Czech Republic66 Posts
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Darack
51 Posts
On October 11 2011 15:06 Scoobasteve wrote: What I've found works a lot for me as Terran (slightly different b/c of build times): leave your pylon building worker idle - I notice the idle worker notification a lot easier than actually checking supply, and its another mental note to build a supply depot. Everytime I see an idle SCV, i hit F1 and build a new depot. As toss it'll be a little different b/c the worker will be idle immediately after building one, but its another area on the screen that gives a reminder to build pylons. This is exactly what I am doing with terran. As terran you should in early to mid game always be building one supply depot and on 2 base after getting it started you should be building two at a time (never stop until supply limit or big supply drop). I don't think this should be too different with toss, one pylon should be building in early game (starting after your production kicks in of course). Look at your base and learn to check for this. Problem solved. This way you can check if you are constantly producing (or constantly warping in units) as well. If your supply limit increases faster than your production can manage then you are either building too much pylons at once or you production is not what it should be. | ||
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thesideshow
930 Posts
Having a system of consistently building supply depots or a pylon after every warp in works, but you have to be ready to adjust that on-the-fly depending on the circumstances, so you'll have to learn to watch your supply and take into account production cycles anyway. | ||
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Pawsom
United States928 Posts
On one base: every time you warp you need a pylon. (3 gates + probes, or 4 gates and no probes) On two base: every warp/tech unit you need 2 pylons. | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
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Kaz_Coaching
United States83 Posts
1 Nexus + 3 gateways = 7 supply per round. Means you need to start constructing a pylon every single time you hit a production cycle. If your building out of a robo, 2 nexus or more gateways you need to calculate the amount of supply used with every production cycle. When you hit your cycle make pylons for the next one. | ||
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TigerKarl
1757 Posts
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Pandepic
Australia219 Posts
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NeWeNiyaLord
Norway2474 Posts
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Ruscour
5233 Posts
On October 11 2011 17:08 Gorb1 wrote: Think in terms of a production cycle. 1 Nexus + 3 gateways = 7 supply per round. Means you need to start constructing a pylon every single time you hit a production cycle. If your building out of a robo, 2 nexus or more gateways you need to calculate the amount of supply used with every production cycle. When you hit your cycle make pylons for the next one. A simplified way of doing this is per base...obviously varies but if you're on one base, one pylon at a time, two base, two pylons at a time, etc. | ||
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ypslala
Burma545 Posts
a typical block i have is 52/52 60/60 84/84 etc. what i do, after the first 3-4 buildorder pylons: - everytime i made a building, i place an additional pylon beside it, also to avoid artosis pylons. robo + 1 pylon. gateway + 1 pylon, forge +1 pylon, twilight council + 1 pylon etc. its not perfect, but it IS a way. - ofc after a warp in cycle - from ~ 100 supply on i always make 2-3 pylons | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
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Greth
Belgium318 Posts
Might be easier to realize that 1 depot = 4 marauders / 8 marines. 1 pylon = 4 stalkers / zealots. 1 overlord = 4 roaches / 500 000 zerglings. You can't do much with a single supply building. You'll need to constantly build them, and if you don't need to, there is a problem with your macro somewhere else. | ||
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Surili
United Kingdom1141 Posts
Personally that i what i think that all people who say they don't need to watch there replays should do. Run the game at x8 and every time you get supply blocked go back to faster speed and feel the pain of the supply block again. It is like being stabbed by a rusty fork. | ||
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Klyberess
Sweden345 Posts
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ChrysaliS_
United States261 Posts
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Dudevico
Sweden53 Posts
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Azera
3800 Posts
2) Make the recording into a song by putting it in an infinite loop. 3) Listen to the 'song' while you play. | ||
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proerthantoss
United Kingdom16 Posts
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CapnAmerica
United States508 Posts
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Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
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Chinesewonder
Canada354 Posts
I actually just thought of that and as a matter of fact, I think I'm going to do that tonight when I get home from work. haha | ||
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tac0
Sweden14 Posts
On October 11 2011 14:13 ComaDose wrote: blog about it. how do you even start i blog at TL? I dont get it.. day9 said one thing, and this actually helped me friend to NEVER be supply blocked. he's gold protoss what to do? think at the start of the game : pylon probe pylon probe pylon probe pylon probe. and focus only on that, in a little while u'll be pro at making pylons at the right time and having a good amount of probes to help your economy best tip i can give you for learning that. also its Day9 approved (y) | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 11 2011 13:53 lordsurya08 wrote: Since I started playing starcraft - 2 months ago - supply blocks have been the bane of my gameplay. There is nothing I hate more than getting supply blocked. It happens to me at least ONCE (on average like 10 times). Every. Single. Game. I've switched to Toss, I've tried to shift myself into a build-pylon mindset...nothing works. The warp-in-then-pylon trick works occasionally, but as soon as I get more gates and robos it goes out the window and I lose track of supply. Any suggestions? Is there, say, some sort of legal third party software that makes a little beep whenever my supply cap is nearby? Treat supply like probes. If you asking if you have built do many, you are asking the wrong question. It easy to scale back your pylon building once your in the habit of building them. Once you have three warpgates, you should get in the habit of building a pylon after every warp in. I build a pylon per base after every warp in I do. I also try to check after ever chrono I use. Also try to get a lead on your supply at some point. Nothing crazy, just one or two pylons. I normally make these my foward pylons I stash on the map, so it has some purpose. There is nothing worse than winning a huge fight with style and flare, only to be supply blocked afterwords and not able to follow up with an even bigger army. | ||
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Ultimahunter
Canada20 Posts
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Veriol
Czech Republic502 Posts
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Demonace34
United States2493 Posts
Also, you have to get a rotation of what you need to be doing in your head. Warp-in look at top right for supply blocks, look at your money to see if you need more gates/tech/whatever and then look at the minimap again while you cycle through your buildings. If you do this over and over enough you'll eventually see when you need to build pylons easily. If you are supply blocked and have extra money, throw down more than just the 1 or 2 to get unsupply blocked if you are over 100 supply...I'd throw down 4-6 and then go back to worrying about other things. This does take a ton of work but you can make it much less of a hassle if you have safeguards in your head to not get supply blocked. | ||
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Jagd
United States71 Posts
I'm trying to get into that habit and it's been helping me with map awareness and with supply blocks. | ||
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hersimp
Norway40 Posts
And always make a pylon just before you do a warp in early-mid game. When later in the game can feel free to make several pylons at once. 2-4 The most important think is to focus on removing your supply blocks. Play games focusing on only that and dont care about the other stuff. Then it'll kinda go naturally for you quite quickly glhf | ||
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DW-Unrec
492 Posts
Overlords and pylons before 6 minutes are part of the build order. There is no "rule" like make overlords before making units, make pylons after warping in. If you open 15 hatch 16 pool, the overlord will be on 17. If you open 12 gateway, pylon will be on 16. If you have solid play, 28 supply will be one phase of the game, 36 will be another, just like 44. After 44 you'll have strong economy and the build order becomes weaker (you can't follow a BO at 44 supply). If you want a "rule" to not get supply locked after 44 supply, here it is: Larva pops every 40 seconds. You want to have money saved up and free supply to spend this larva. Its ok if you dont spend all the larva at once, but ideally you want to keep 2 or less larva at each hatchery. Larvas spawn every 15 seconds. Overlords take 25 seconds to build. Injects and overlords can be like infestors; when the glens upgrade is 30/80 done, you make infestors. When larva is 15/40 done or less, you make an overlord. Use the larva that spawn every 15 seconds to make the overlords. You may use the larva that the queen made to make overlords, but as I said before, you want this larva to make units. | ||
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ODKStevez
Ireland1225 Posts
I have the same problem with you and I play zerg so I do have the tricks of queen inject spawn overlords ^^ | ||
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eugalp
United States203 Posts
- Until around 50ish supply you just have to be keep checking your supply count and remember to build pylons. There is usually not much going on on the map anyway. Not being supply blocked should be one of your highest priorities at this stage of the game. - Anticipate sudden jumps in supply. Warpgate tech about to finish? Better check your supply. About to make an immortal? Immortal takes half a pylon so make sure you have room. A Colossus takes almost an entire pylon. Any robotics build is generally very "pylon intensive" - Once you have your second base up and running, it will not be the end of the world if you simply overmake pylons. It is suboptimal but it is MUCH better to have 2 or even 3 pylons too many than to ever be supply blocked. In addition, this way you won't be supply blocked if you get dropped and lose 1 or 2 pylons. - Once you have 6+ gates, get in the habit of making ~2 pylons after every warpin (except during battle, obviously) | ||
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dhe95
United States1213 Posts
For terrans depending on the number of rax you have, you'd basically have 1-3 scvs constantly building supplies. Protoss, I don't really know, have a probe build a few pylons every warp in? Either way, eventually these habits will become 2nd nature. | ||
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Kornholi0
Canada634 Posts
overlords Supply depots Pylons any other really bad questions? | ||
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LolitsPing
United States285 Posts
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Zariel
Australia1285 Posts
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