EPT[D] Why us lower level players hate "macro better" - Page 30
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
"You're missing your left foot, could you get a prosthetic?" "NO WTF SHUT UP I'M TALKING ABOUT SUPPLEMENTS HERE, WHAT DO I TAKE?" | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On October 15 2011 01:24 Elfich wrote: Being in Silver I have read threads that read "What happened at ten minutes when he rolled me" and the answer was "Macro Better" instead of "Spread troops/micro better/composition issues". I look at the response and think to myself "He didn't answer the question, he answered with a nonsequitor" If I may be so bold as to suggest: Providing two separate answers may help. One answer being macro oriented (build probes, harvest more, build more crap than the other buy). One answer being micro oriented (what went wrong at that point in the game). I realize that macro issues will drive the micro issues (more probes = more stuff) but people don't always want to hear that answer. So providing the answer that is needed (ie macro better) will go down better when answering the question that he asked (micro/unit composition). Ultimately though, the answer is often "well he had 4000 minerals+gas of units attacking you and you only had 2000 minerals+gas of units to defend with." because you were late with a lot of workers 5 minutes earlier, and couldn't generate as much income. You're looking at the fight when the problem happened earlier. You MUST look at the first things that goes wrong (sufficiently... some things that go wrong are minor, of course) in a game when trying to figure out what went wrong. Until macro is good, expectations of what you ought to be able to do by whatever time (such as having enough roaches or lings to hold off a 4-gate) don't hold true. You could do it if you didnt miss your first couple injects, but if you miss those injects... well, you're gonna die to that 4-gate. | ||
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lizzard_warish
589 Posts
On October 06 2011 21:01 marvellosity wrote: Yeah except its not even possible for them to execute the strategies. If I tell a bad player to hit a timing, as a followup to another timing, in relation to a timing his enemy did...its not arbitrary, its specific. Theres a reason im telling him to do that. Poor macro [on both parts] will lead to the strategy actually serving no purpose. What was initially a timing attack to exploit a weakness will just be an arbitrary collection of troops being poorly microed and thrown at another, similar force. Once you can actually macro and multitask, then you can learn what and how to direct it.Congratulations, you are one of those ppl the OP was talking about even though you were trying not to be. These players are NOT dia/master + and he *already acknowledged this*, saying it's not something you can improve overnight, although of course they try to. So in the CONTEXT that these players are forever striving to improve their macro, it seems entirely reasonable that they should be wanting to improve their strategical knowledge too. Especially as it's the strategical aspect that's more fun than "4eee 5c wzzzssee" And no shit it doesnt come over night, that doesnt matter at all. If his fault is macro his fault is macro until it no longer is, they can just try harder. | ||
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BalanceFx
United States72 Posts
However... Zealot rush... they watch the zealots the entire time and their macro falls apart. Reapers... they seem to be watching their reapers but they seem useless in their hands... Same with hellions (with the rare exception of the 4 dropped hellions on the min line... reaction speed for their opponents are very slow. Some builds do great... Bunker rushing zergs... taking out their expo and trapping them in their main... Its incredibly easy to do. I watched Dimagas stream the other day and watched him pwn it like a boss but what he did he must have done before... it was near flawless even though he said he blew up the wrong baneling... I mean his execution from the leading zergling to soak damage to the exact correct number of banelings to execute the task to killing two bunkers and all the marines and then going on to win the match... Incredible mechanics. You are not going to find that "Kind" of mechanics in gold. They don't know how many banelings they need... how to time that... they can follow a build order and keep their money low but the pro's are at a whole nother level. Macro will win games for sure. But there is a lot more to starcraft 2 then just macro. Awesome macro can get you into diamond and maybe even masters and even many of their games they will say well my macro fell off at X mins, I missed Y chrono or Z injects and Creep spread was lacking etc etc.... I think practicing mechanics can help a lot. Zergs with awesome crazy macro losing to Void Ray rushes probably just need to watch a few Vods on build orders that either scout out the voids (Not always easy if they proxy it...) or are just build relatively safe from voids. I watched a lot of pros get out of things that I know I just couldn't do right now... it wasn't macro that saved them but very key decisions at perfect times with perfect or near perfect execution. Yabot is cool... practicing Macro is essential for all levels of play... Learning how to defeat cheese is awesome but just as blizzard put together challenges to earn badges there must be a way to create maps that are scenarios like beating a 2 rax perfectly executed bunker rush on each 1v1 map... Or beating some of the more clever Cannon rushes which I watched pros own like a boss as well. Beating a perfect macro terran who does a 6:15 push vrs beating a 6 pool... (Which I think would be hard to code... since the 6 pool requires a lot of micro and decision making etc) The point is macro is great and so is micro but experience can not be underestimated. Play more!  I also think a lot of people made good points with the argument that lets assume this is my macro cap and I am unlikely to ever get better at that aspect... Are there any other things I can get better at that would help me compete competitively at a higher level? And there probably is but understand not a lot of people are necessarily going to be able to tell you what that is. If your macro is poor and you are down 4 marines and a marauder then you normally would have had with better macro then many players who watch your horrible macro will not see anything except you missing your mule timing, getting supply blocked... canceling a depot to put it 3 spaces somewhere else... it will drive them nuts! They will be Throwing their hands up and screaming noob etc... To try and seriously look at your game will be difficult as they see timing attacks and other circumstances that would arise if your opponent had better macro. Other players will look and say... ahhh well you could actually get out of that if you preemptively made a concave and pulled 2 scvs and then ran the first guy hit left... Another guy might say yeah well you made 2 hellions instead of 4 marines.... etc etc. | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On October 15 2011 09:12 Drowsy wrote: "I can't run fast and beat this guy in a race! What supplements should I use to improve my performance?!" "You're missing your left foot, could you get a prosthetic?" "NO WTF SHUT UP I'M TALKING ABOUT SUPPLEMENTS HERE, WHAT DO I TAKE?" Another analogy: "I can't play tennis very well. Which racquet should I buy to make my shots more powerful? Which strings should I use for more spin? Which shoes should I get to make myself run faster?" "No dude none of those matter at your level, I watched your video and you need to improve your technique first before worrying about those." | ||
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aebriol
Norway2066 Posts
On October 15 2011 05:23 Monkeyballs25 wrote: Hah! If only cheese was a 10% thing. Regardless, lets look at some of the common things pros do in the first 6 minutes. -execute 2rax bunker pressure, or defend against same with mostly drones -1 stalker/1 zealot harass -2 marauder/3 SCV harass All while macroing perfectly, I assume. But I assume you just meant a standard 1base build like 3rax stim timing or 4gate or 7RR. Not really. Ignore the pressure they use. Ignore that they are going out with their stuff. Focus on exactly what they are building when they are going for a macro game, where they place their overlords or whatever, and just do that. Focus on a macro opening. If you are in silver, you are just doing so much wrong with your opening that you should focus on that to the exclusion of everything - that is - assuming you want to improve and move up in leagues. If you don't care, then don' bother, obviously. | ||
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fant0m
964 Posts
On October 15 2011 01:33 Rassy wrote: yes you can use strategy even if you dont execute it perfectly,what you say is absolute nonsense Pro,s demonstrate this every day, None of them executes even the first 5 minutes close to theorethical perfection yet they all make good use of strategy Strategy has an effect at every lvl of execution, a low lvl of execution will still be better with strategy then without Absolutely 100% wrong. If you seriously think that pros don't have perfect macro for the first 4-7 minutes of a game, I can tell you exactly why you're not in a better league. On October 15 2011 08:43 Pugwalker wrote: This is wrong. Full saturation is 26-28 workers per base. you should have about 20-22 on minerals and 6 on gas...maybe you should have used your brain before posting. Full saturation yes, but not optimal. Anything beyond 16 workers on minerals is very inefficient, if you can afford to take another base and put the extra workers at the new base, you will have a much better economy. 18 workers is slightly more income than 24 workers if 2 of those 18 are on a 2nd base. It takes ~5 in-game minutes for a 3rd mineral patch worker (17-24) just to BREAK EVEN on the 50 minerals that you spent to get it... maybe you should have used your brain before insulting him. | ||
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GnarlyArbitrage
575 Posts
On October 15 2011 09:56 iamke55 wrote: Another analogy: "I can't play tennis very well. Which racquet should I buy to make my shots more powerful? Which strings should I use for more spin? Which shoes should I get to make myself run faster?" "No dude none of those matter at your level, I watched your video and you need to improve your technique first before worrying about those." A worse analogy, in terms of the person and not that actual analogy: "I want to get better at skateboarding, but I don't like to go fast at all." "Slowser, go faster." "But I'm scared." "The faster you go, the more balance you will retain when you land because your inertia will be going forward more than down when you do trick. The slower you go, the harder it is just to balance on the board and you'll either lean too much forward or too back, and even if you don't do that, when you land, you'll come to a complete stop and look like a poser.... Oh wait, you are a poser!" "I don't like to go fast, it's not my style." "(punches slowser in the face and takes his board from him to snap it) You don't deserve this." | ||
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Monkeyballs25
531 Posts
On October 15 2011 08:28 LoneWolf.Alpha- wrote: I don't understand why it's so hard for players to improve below the diamond level. I've watched some lower level players play, and I think the main problem is that they don't think when they're playing. What do you mean when you say your strategy is wrong? It's not very hard to know that you don't use roaches against marauders, or you need antiair if you're suspecting banshees, and you need to tech or get spore crawlers when you suspect DT or something. But the problem is, you're not doing it. something about your brain... I don't know. but seirously, its' not that hard. 1- macro 2- use your brain to figure out what units to make 3- ... 4- diamond In my own experience it was the opposite. I was thinking about *too much* when playing. Worrying about keeping my scout alive, or checking to see exactly what build my opponent was doing and trying to remember the official TL approved counter, trying to harass with mutas. And all that crap was crowding out the part of my brain that's supposed to be doing injects and making units, expansions and upgrades. Now instead of trying to work out what the right unit comp to beat 10 marauders is and ending up with 10 zerglings, I just make 20 roaches. I guess my brain just performs poorly under pressure, but its pretty good at routines. Probably the same reason I was pretty good at WoW raiding but absolutely terrible at arena pvp. You can see similar things if you watch low level games. You see his camera centre on a big army he scouted, or on a fight that he's slowly losing. And you can practically hear him thinking "oh crap oh crap what do I build now" and getting a bad case of decision paralysis as his minerals climb into the thousands. | ||
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Monkeyballs25
531 Posts
On October 15 2011 08:37 holyhalo5 wrote: This is in response to the people who responded to my post. I see your point. Maybe I'm overinflating game sense (although I never said macro wasn't important). But what about cheese? When I was lower level I often lost because of unscouted proxy pylons, factories being lifted into my base, nydus canals, banelings, four-gate, marine-SCV allins, banshee timings, DTs, and the like. What is the solution here? Higher-level people don't cheese because their enemies know how to scout and counter, but you can't say the same applies to lower-levels. First of all, high level players still do cheese, even in tournaments where they will meet the same opponent over up to 7 matches. I suppose I'd put it down to three things -picking a safe build order. This doesn't mean 3 cannons at your ramp at 5 minutes, but it does mean, for example, having some form of detection by the time banshees or DTs could be out. So for Protoss I guess you'd want a fairly quick Forge or Robo, which is a component of many standard builds. I'd also suggest not going for one of those early expand builds like Nexus first or 1gate FE that are very risky if not supported by good scouting and reaction. -good vision around the perimeter of your base. Ok I play Zerg so I've got creep and overlords to make this easy. But I'm pretty sure a lot of even the pro Toss players place pylons around the edge of their base, or leave a stalker or two to catch drops/reapers/banshees etc. -the third thing is knowing the basic responsee to common early aggression or cheese. I've watched enough games to know stuff like -pull a drone to chase any probe near your base until it retreats to its own. -pull 2 drones if it tries to block the natural hatch -pull 3-4 drones to kill a pylon, cannon, bunker or spine crawler building near my base if my lings aren't ready yet -mineral move all my drones through his lings and then A-move when they get a surround if he has early pool lings before mine are out I assume the standard responses to anti-Protoss cheese is also just as simple. If you can do all of that without it negatively affecting your early game macro, then all should be well. And let's face it, early game macro is pretty easy Also I have to admit I still struggle with 4gate rushes and 1base lingbling. But the last 4gate I lost due to bad macro(2 supply blocks) and the 1base lingbling was down to an unsafe buildorder(too much teching without getting sufficient roaches to defend). So basically -pick a safe build and unit comp -have vision of your whole base area -know the anti-cheese responses -macro well while doing all of the above | ||
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lizzard_warish
589 Posts
On October 15 2011 10:15 fant0m wrote: In any case lonealpha is still wrong in saying that you should keep your probe count around 16 probes. Has the sc2 community REALLY not grasped the simple and well known act of maynarding? Jesus christ.Absolutely 100% wrong. If you seriously think that pros don't have perfect macro for the first 4-7 minutes of a game, I can tell you exactly why you're not in a better league. Full saturation yes, but not optimal. Anything beyond 16 workers on minerals is very inefficient, if you can afford to take another base and put the extra workers at the new base, you will have a much better economy. 18 workers is slightly more income than 24 workers if 2 of those 18 are on a 2nd base. It takes ~5 in-game minutes for a 3rd mineral patch worker (17-24) just to BREAK EVEN on the 50 minerals that you spent to get it... maybe you should have used your brain before insulting him. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On October 15 2011 08:50 Pulimuli wrote: I have horrible macro for my level of play but ive beaten some pro players and other lesser known Grandmasters even though i miss macro rounds and workers, supplies and god knows what. Strategy and timing does make alot as well. Strategy does matter but when I can just do nothing but make marines in every single match up to plat/low diamond... well. There are better things you can work on but whatever works for you. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On October 15 2011 08:50 Pulimuli wrote: I have horrible macro for my level of play but ive beaten some pro players and other lesser known Grandmasters even though i miss macro rounds and workers, supplies and god knows what. Strategy and timing does make alot as well. Theres a distinct difference between not being able to multi-task, and completely botching basic build orders/unable to spend money past 2 base. Even top Korean pros miss workers/production/injects/get supply blocked. A lot of masters get there via perfecting a build all the way up to 3 bases and flailing aimlessly when tested purely on their late game mechanics vs someone who is actually top notch. It's pretty easy to end games before they reach 3 base. There are a lot of factors really. I highly doubt what you say is true or you grossly over-exaggerate the extent to which your macro apparently falters. | ||
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Chutoro
New Zealand95 Posts
On October 14 2011 02:02 Asday wrote: Damnit, I was going to post exactly that. If you lose in sub-diamond, it's because your opponent spent more money than you. 100%. Here are the stats from my last 5 losses according to SC2Gears. Plus sign means I spent that much more than the other player did, minus means I spent less: +12025 minerals, +4900 gas +4175 minerals, -425 gas +24425 minerals, +4950 gas +8350 minerals, +3050 gas +6075 minerals, -1575 gas I would say that I am behind on total resources spent in fewer than 25% of my losses overall. I am in Platinum and have been for quite a long time now. | ||
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UmiNotsuki
United States633 Posts
On October 16 2011 07:24 Chutoro wrote: Here are the stats from my last 5 losses according to SC2Replays folder. Plus sign means I spent that much more than the other player did, minus means I spent less: +12025 minerals, +4900 gas +4175 minerals, -425 gas +24425 minerals, +4950 gas +8350 minerals, +3050 gas +6075 minerals, -1575 gas I would say that I am behind on total resources spent in fewer than 25% of my losses overall. I am in Platinum and have been for quite a long time now. I think players who have been good for a while (or at least Diamond for a while) don't understand that the ranking system has shifted as the community grows more skilled. I personally had a similar problem to yours; I was in Platinum and couldn't break out, even though before I'd seen constant improvement as a function of time spent playing. I made the push into Diamond by dramatically improving my strategy and execution. That doesn't mean to get above Platinum you should only work on strategy. According to SC2Gears my injection rate is about 40%. That's fucking terrible. I will make it into Masters through working on my strategy as WELL as my macro and mechanics. But macro and mechanics are still very, very important and shouldn't be ignored. Just because you'd like to work on strategy doesn't mean you're good enough to merit it. Just because you merit working on strategy doesn't mean you don't need to work on macro. | ||
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GHOST87
United States4 Posts
let us rephrase the term "macro better" and say "WORK HEAVILY ON MECHANICS!!!!" mechanics are not the only things that will get you to master but they are an extremly extreeeeemly important foundation to strengthen on your way to becoming a great player mechanics are so key that u can ALMOST throw everything else out the window. TRY THIS-> watch a replay of some Grand Master you like that plays your race (not a cast mind you the real replay) and try to match everything he does exactly. play against a very ez ai on the same map v the same race u saw the gm play against in the replay. doing a perfect mirror will not be ez but its your whole focus... win or lose it doesnt even matter just get it as close as to what the GM did as u can. take notes about everything throughout watching the replay... so u can have ur notes help u do the same exact things when u play. some suggestions on notes to take: what time did he do it (when did he make a building/unit, when did he scout, got gas/tech, built supply, when did he expand 5min?6 min?13min? etc..)? also what was his food count when he did it (9/10, 50/50, 130/175,etc)? what was his bank like (100 minerals 100 gas, 50 minerals 200 gas,etc)? how saturated is the base or bases (double click or ctrl click a miner to see how many rows of miners u see... 2 rows in his main, 2 rows +4 in his natural, etc) take note of all of the above and any other notes u find important throughout the whole game at the start and finish of all events like, starting of a push/end of the push, or starting a building/completed the building, started tech/tech finished, expansion started/finished/saturated with miners. also mix in while doing all of the above..... take some side notes of the army size, composition, and positions on both sides. note when the armies moved, and where they moved to, where did they lay in wait and where they engaged in battle. preffereably watch a win against a race you have trouble with... the more replays vs a certain race u watch the more openings u will become familiar with and map specific issues u will see. watch mutiple replays of all match ups vs ur race if u can stand to. so far with this alone if u watch a replay u should be able to say for example... the zerg finished his lair at 8:42 he had 68/68 supply 509 minerals 276 gas. also started producing 3 overlords. he had 9 roaches and 20 lings moving toward the enemy. had 3 rows of drones and 2 gas in the main, almost 2 rows and 1 gas in the natural...this should be a ever changing paragraph that u fill in basically throughout the game... this is now your framework---your foundation of good mechanics when you play u should see u have things very close to exactly the same as the replay. u dont even have to move out with those units to attack or scout, just make sure u get timings right, just watch ur base very closely maybe even only looking at ur base and play a very easy ai if u have to just so u can get down the timings. u will start to notice maybe u stopped builing miners at a certain time, or maybe u stopped production at a certain time.... things like getting supply blocked or a building that is producing nothing should never happen... having a ton of gas and no money doesnt always mean spend more gas, it usually means u made something too soon or too late. the replay notes help u never stop having something to do NVR JUST SIT AND WATCH SOMETHING HAPPEN... ALWAYS BE INVOLVED WITH BUILDING OR MOVING SOMETHING. having a big bank is almost always bad. take note of how that big bank gets dumped in the pro replay... maybe producing a bunch of buildings to then make a bunch of mineral or gas costing units with. making lots of something that balances your econ is usually a good way to dump. have too much money? make zlots or rines or lings.. still too much minerals?... make gateways, rax or hatchs so u can make more rines, zlots and lings at a time DO NOT HAVE UNITS WAITING IN LINE TO BE MADE just keep making more as they finish or are half way or more complete... MAKE MORE BUILDINGS INSTEAD of lining up something to be built. too much gas... get tech... make tier 2 or tier 3 units, still too much make more buildings to make more gas units. the more replays you take notes on the better. watch like as many replays vs a race as u can... u will see what adjustments are made to this framework...sometimes its a small difference due to the map or other players style of play... sometimes its huge. NOW WHAT!?!?? now you keep on keeping on... you have a mechanic to perfect... which includes everything from teching to expanding and pushing or defending. notice the timings change each game but only slightly and for a very specific reason and when you know the timing you will learn the reason. when you learn the reason u will fix it and get better all on your own. fixing timings becomes a fun way to improve you will notice...losing means your improving if u watch what made you lose and what timing could have helped u win...winning means you did some stuff right and the other guy did a lot wrong. just cuz you won doesnt mean your timings are right and can make you get into a pattern of losing if u dont pay attention to the mechanics of why u won and y the other guy lost. include what he should have done to win...and then factor in a timing for you to beat that with a mineral or gas dump at some point before the time he should have done that something better to beat u... and u will improve even when u win your framework should allow you saturate bases fast and max out fast with a mix of making enough miners and having enough production buildings to keep your minerals and gas low 1000 minerals = 20 marines... if u have 1000 minerals and 1 rax and i have 1000 minerals and 20 rax i can have 20 marines by the time u have 1 marine. same money count but my mechanics will out produce you and i will win very easily good mechanics means at 10 min if i hit you with 1 colosi and 4 stalkers... u will already just have enough to kill it cuz you always do. or if not ready right then u will know that in 30 sec-1min u will have enough to kill it, u didnt even have to scout it... tho you should have seen it coming.. or delayed its coming like in the replays. good mechanics means always making a steady progress toward the late game and having the most u can have at that point in time when it comes to units/upgrades/buildings/scouting info, what ever... when you have good mechanics your game will improve incredibly faster than a player who does not work on his mechanics. he just complains that he wants to learn a better strategy to beat your great mechanics not realizing that he CANT beat u with some strategy cuz no matter what he makes its slow and not constantly pumping... u are ahead in, economy, food, production, tech u name it ur better. he can only play you to help you work on perfecting your own timings so u beat him, faster, stronger and with more each time cuz he is not improving... he just a living punching bag.... someone tell him to go "macro better" this is not a game where someone can say a strategy that makes you play better if your lower level..without mechanics u cant even perform a strategy...you may win a game with a strategy if u learn it.... but you will win a tournament with good mechanics....sorry but there has not been discovered an ez way to just win all the time...and when there is....there will be a patch for that | ||
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UmiNotsuki
United States633 Posts
On October 16 2011 08:45 GHOST87 wrote: I understand both sides of this very well since i have been on both sides. let us rephrase the term "macro better" and say "WORK HEAVILY ON MECHANICS!!!!" mechanics are not the only things that will get you to master but they are an extremly extreeeeemly important foundation to strengthen on your way to becoming a great player mechanics are so key that u can ALMOST throw everything else out the window. TRY THIS-> watch a replay of some Grand Master you like that plays your race (not a cast mind you the real replay) and try to match everything he does exactly. play against a very ez ai on the same map v the same race u saw the gm play against in the replay. doing a perfect mirror will not be ez but its your whole focus... win or lose it doesnt even matter just get it as close as to what the GM did as u can. take notes about everything throughout watching the replay... so u can have ur notes help u do the same exact things when u play. some suggestions on notes to take: what time did he do it (when did he make a building/unit, when did he scout, got gas/tech, built supply, when did he expand 5min?6 min?13min? etc..)? also what was his food count when he did it (9/10, 50/50, 130/175,etc)? what was his bank like (100 minerals 100 gas, 50 minerals 200 gas,etc)? how saturated is the base or bases (double click or ctrl click a miner to see how many rows of miners u see... 2 rows in his main, 2 rows +4 in his natural, etc) take note of all of the above and any other notes u find important throughout the whole game at the start and finish of all events like, starting of a push/end of the push, or starting a building/completed the building, started tech/tech finished, expansion started/finished/saturated with miners. also mix in while doing all of the above..... take some side notes of the army size, composition, and positions on both sides. note when the armies moved, and where they moved to, where did they lay in wait and where they engaged in battle. preffereably watch a win against a race you have trouble with... the more replays vs a certain race u watch the more openings u will become familiar with and map specific issues u will see. watch mutiple replays of all match ups vs ur race if u can stand to. so far with this alone if u watch a replay u should be able to say for example... the zerg finished his lair at 8:42 he had 68/68 supply 509 minerals 276 gas. also started producing 3 overlords. he had 9 roaches and 20 lings moving toward the enemy. had 3 rows of drones and 2 gas in the main, almost 2 rows and 1 gas in the natural...this should be a ever changing paragraph that u fill in basically throughout the game... this is now your framework---your foundation of good mechanics when you play u should see u have things very close to exactly the same as the replay. u dont even have to move out with those units to attack or scout, just make sure u get timings right, just watch ur base very closely maybe even only looking at ur base and play a very easy ai if u have to just so u can get down the timings. u will start to notice maybe u stopped builing miners at a certain time, or maybe u stopped production at a certain time.... things like getting supply blocked or a building that is producing nothing should never happen... having a ton of gas and no money doesnt always mean spend more gas, it usually means u made something too soon or too late. the replay notes help u never stop having something to do NVR JUST SIT AND WATCH SOMETHING HAPPEN... ALWAYS BE INVOLVED WITH BUILDING OR MOVING SOMETHING. having a big bank is almost always bad. take note of how that big bank gets dumped in the pro replay... maybe producing a bunch of buildings to then make a bunch of mineral or gas costing units with. making lots of something that balances your econ is usually a good way to dump. have too much money? make zlots or rines or lings.. still too much minerals?... make gateways, rax or hatchs so u can make more rines, zlots and lings at a time DO NOT HAVE UNITS WAITING IN LINE TO BE MADE just keep making more as they finish or are half way or more complete... MAKE MORE BUILDINGS INSTEAD of lining up something to be built. too much gas... get tech... make tier 2 or tier 3 units, still too much make more buildings to make more gas units. the more replays you take notes on the better. watch like as many replays vs a race as u can... u will see what adjustments are made to this framework...sometimes its a small difference due to the map or other players style of play... sometimes its huge. NOW WHAT!?!?? now you keep on keeping on... you have a mechanic to perfect... which includes everything from teching to expanding and pushing or defending. notice the timings change each game but only slightly and for a very specific reason and when you know the timing you will learn the reason. when you learn the reason u will fix it and get better all on your own. fixing timings becomes a fun way to improve you will notice...losing means your improving if u watch what made you lose and what timing could have helped u win...winning means you did some stuff right and the other guy did a lot wrong. just cuz you won doesnt mean your timings are right and can make you get into a pattern of losing if u dont pay attention to the mechanics of why u won and y the other guy lost. include what he should have done to win...and then factor in a timing for you to beat that with a mineral or gas dump at some point before the time he should have done that something better to beat u... and u will improve even when u win your framework should allow you saturate bases fast and max out fast with a mix of making enough miners and having enough production buildings to keep your minerals and gas low 1000 minerals = 20 marines... if u have 1000 minerals and 1 rax and i have 1000 minerals and 20 rax i can have 20 marines by the time u have 1 marine. same money count but my mechanics will out produce you and i will win very easily good mechanics means at 10 min if i hit you with 1 colosi and 4 stalkers... u will already just have enough to kill it cuz you always do. or if not ready right then u will know that in 30 sec-1min u will have enough to kill it, u didnt even have to scout it... tho you should have seen it coming.. or delayed its coming like in the replays. good mechanics means always making a steady progress toward the late game and having the most u can have at that point in time when it comes to units/upgrades/buildings/scouting info, what ever... when you have good mechanics your game will improve incredibly faster than a player who does not work on his mechanics. he just complains that he wants to learn a better strategy to beat your great mechanics not realizing that he CANT beat u with some strategy cuz no matter what he makes its slow and not constantly pumping... u are ahead in, economy, food, production, tech u name it ur better. he can only play you to help you work on perfecting your own timings so u beat him, faster, stronger and with more each time cuz he is not improving... he just a living punching bag.... someone tell him to go "macro better" this is not a game where someone can say a strategy that makes you play better if your lower level..without mechanics u cant even perform a strategy...you may win a game with a strategy if u learn it.... but you will win a tournament with good mechanics....sorry but there has not been discovered an ez way to just win all the time...and when there is....there will be a patch for that HOLYSHIT use your enter key. I've never said this before, ever, but... TL;DR. Also, grammar goes a LONG way in encouraging people to hear you out. L2Spell. | ||
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Monkeyballs25
531 Posts
7:00 Built two spine crawlers and moved queens to block ramp like the pro did. Sure nothing is attacking me but I have to copy him. 7:30 Lost 3 drones and 10 lings. The pro lost them to hellions but in this game there are no hellions so I had to tell the spines to kill them. 8:30 Made 20 more lings and attacked his natural expansion. By opponent hasn't actually expanded so I just left them outside where they died to siege tank fire. "Durr you can't copy them *exactly* you have to adapt to what happens in the game" Yeah no kidding. If you can copy everything a pro does AND adapt it perfectly to everything happening in the game, then you're a pro. Its a tautological argument thingy. And I can say it in that one sentence instead of a mile high wall of text. | ||
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aebriol
Norway2066 Posts
On October 16 2011 17:18 Monkeyballs25 wrote: Are there really many people who learn to play by just watching a set of same race pro replays and just copying them move for move? Sounds pretty hilarious. ... got me to masters. | ||
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