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Hello, I'd just like to ask for some help on how to deal with the TvZ matchup. I am in general having quite a bit of problems and I really would like some help from those better than me in this forum.
Probably the main thing that kills me is the opponent doing roach all ins and it kind of failing, with him still having a economic advantage somehow. It just feels really wierd in TvZ how my opponent can invest so much into roaches yet always just be able to pump drones and still be ahead.
I have 2 replays and I will try to provide my own analysis why I lost.
REPLAY 1:
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-234508.jpg) I would say I did alot of damage from the bunker rush at the begining as I forced ALOT of lings out of him. With the hellions afterwards I killed once again a lot of lings and actually I dont really know what that would do to a zerg player... would it cut him back econemy off trying to resupply a defensive force or does it just not matter? Ok so he deems it that he needs to do a roach attack to try and get back into the game and it does a fuck ton of damage... is there any way of scouting a zerg doing this without wasting energy on scans? After that, he does another attack I presume to kill me and I hold it off from using scvs to shield and stuff. I know im terrible but I think its kinda stupid how the zerg can just keep throwing unit after unit at terran and still come out ahead if the terran doesnt have bunkers prepared ( as I said before is there any way to scout without burning energy on scans ? ) So from this point I probably should of just left but I counted on him perhaps making a mistake to give me a chance to come back. I presumed after doing the massive roach ling attack he wouldnt have alot of shit left over and it really catched me offguard even after spending so much larvae on attacking units that he has the money to get mutalisks out, and I skipped some serious corners by not getting a engi bay because I felt that I was too far behind. Afterwards I make an attack after building up a makeshift army and I win the engagement, but it really fustrates me how he can just pump units faster than me and im forced to run off back home, with him swooping in and doing yet more economic damage. I saw my opponent just tech up to hive and not take any chances and as soon as I scanned his ultra cavern and his broods I knew I had lost. I kinda asked him why I lost and he probably to be mannered he said that he didnt know, but Im pretty sure its kinda obvious I perhaps didnt play to my best.
Replay 2:
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-234515.jpg) So I kinda used my very undeveloped game knowledge and decided that hellions would be a good bet on such a wide open natural, so I opted once again to go for reactor hellions as it seems like a pretty solid BO. At the start I tried to do a 1 rax pressure which was a bit of a retard move on my part as I positioned the bunker out of range of the hatchery ( what a joke ) I think its pretty fucking annoying how the zerg, without even scouting the hellions / what I was doing in my base, decided to just blindly go for roaches. This game I had a bunker up in time but he just did the standard thing and just bloody walks past my defenses and does a shit ton of damage ( this games looks suscpisously like the last game ) So from this point I am behind but not to as such an extent as the other game so im feeling ok. I decided to incorporate the wall off at the front with the bunker, engi bay and 2 supply depots as I thought it would help alot with early rushes and I got to say it kind of did. Its also wierd in my opninon how zerg would of just died to cloaked banshees because he made no attempt to a lair and it would of took him a while to get spores up. I really need to ask, after losing so many scvs at the start of the game, should I just gg? as for the rest of this game I just had faarr less scvs than my opponent. ( but dont use that as a excuse to just give me a tiny response saying how I should learn to defend rushes better to win games ) I have to saqy I made a STUPID move by not having my tanks seiged but to be honest im pretty sure it would not have made a difference and I would of just lost again. I am very very puzzled how on a 2 base economy he thought he had enough money to just suicide 30 or so banelings for my cc. I did some common sense in my head and thought if he did that he wouldnt of had much of a army after just running 30 banelings into a CC, but he just made a fuck ton of mutas with the money from his really bad macro and I just got fucked by them. He cited his reason for being able to suicide the banelings as " drones " yet he only had 50 at 17 minutes into a game. Kinda wierd, but it doesnt take away from the fact I played pretty terribly.
Thanks alot if you watched the replays, it would be a great help if you could give me a few pointers in general about my player
Cheers
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Forcing your zerg opponent to make units doesnt really hurt them in low leagues because macro is so poor. Those minerals were just going to sit in the bank anyway. It actually helps them probably since it prevents them getting caught with no units later on.
As for scouting, you should leave the hellions on the edge of the creep, sniping tumors. That is heaps of time to get bunkers up if he decides to roach push. At the least leave one at a tower.
The first replay its just bad macro anyway, if you hadnt missed scvs/mules/production cycles you would have had plenty of units to kill those roaches without loses.
Also as for not scouting in game 2 - he saw that you went 1 rax 1 gas which is a hellion opening, especially on xel naga. Hang around with the hellions to check his roach numbers. If he pushes with them put down a bunker and pump scvs till seige mode. You are now ahead since his roaches delayed his spire/infestors.
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I'm not able to watch the replays since I'm in class but I can tell you that what samuraibael said about hellions is a good tip
it can sometimes be hard to stop clutch roach pushes if you don't scout them, you have to try your best to figure out what they're doing because a 5-7 roach push can stopped pretty easily by 1-2 bunkers of marines
even if you only get one bunker up, you can slow the push down enough to give you time to get the proper defense up
of course marauders work incredibly well as well
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oh yeah I am ranked 1 platinum, sorry for not including that in the OP
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i forgot to add:
I actually like when the zerg builds roaches because standard terran builds still fare pretty well against roaches (marines/medivacs/siege tanks)
if you're forcing your opponent to go roaches, either willingly or non-willingly, you should be ready to take the next step in fighting them (marauders/siege tanks/banshees?)
also requires less micro to fight roaches, dont have to be dodging banelings
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Masters Terran here -
Playing TvZ is a lot like having sex. Early hellion harass is cute foreplay, but you have to make sure it at least gets a little hot, and you can't let the flames down. However, the main course is the actual doing it, which is your 9minute push with tanks marines and a medivac.
1st replay - Your early bunker pressure was alright, but in higher levels of play i wouldn't recommend going a 1rax pressure AND reactor hellion, as typically a good zerg won't overproduce lings like that. Also, your opponent went 14pool then 15 hatch but no gas; also still delaying his gas for no reason and getting his speed late. He didn't even maynard workers or throw up a spine in response, he overreacted and massed lings instead... so no offence to whoever that guy was but he doesn't really know how to play T.T You gained a huge adv. since the Z had such a bad econ from that.
Ok you did good damage with hellions, considering the zerg didnt even have ling speed by 6min. You did a good amount of damage since the zerg didn't get spines either, and u killed a lot of lings. Towards higher levels, your hellion harass will be more oriented into sniping lings and creep tumors, and if the Z is somehow bad, or retarded and doesn't get spines, rape the drones.
After the end of your hellion harass, it was 20 SCV's to 18 Drones. You killed off nearly 22 lings.
Your build was a little bit scrappy. Also, i notice you don't constantly make scv's for a while. You would have had a really solid econ adv had you done so. make sure you drill your macro in!! At 6:20, when u began to get a tech lab. you were floating 500mins 200 gas. Consider throwing down the 2nd baracks earlier, and getting a 2nd gas and a starport.
WHY YOU LOST : You retreated your hellions all the way back to your base, and pulled FIVE scv's to repair. USE ONE, and just bring it to the hellions, not vice versa. If you feel damage is no longer a viable option, keep the hellions for map control and have the towers. BECAUSE you did not continually make scv's, you couldn't pump tanks and siege and keep making marines/more scv's and get a bunker at ur natural. I'm pretty sure had you had more scv's and a solider econ, you could've lifted ur orbital, grabbed ur nat and set up a strong defense there.
THE ENGAGE ITSELF: you didn't have siege due to your sloppy macro; had you had siege he wouldn't have even made it up the ramp. instead of using the scv's to mass repair the tanks, you attack the roaches with them. REPAIR UR TANKS, also if you can, micro them back as they have a much farther range then the roaches. Having a bunker up is always handy, i usually salvage mine and build a new one at my natural when i take my expansion. BTW, you should've seen the roaches coming considering you had the hellions battle a bit with the roaches during your harass
So by now you're really behind. But its ok, we're terran and we make comebacks. Your opponent wasn't exactly the greatest, so you easily could've pulled some magic and won.
THINGS TO NOTE: Yeah a few turrets up earlier would've been nice. But make sure +1 comes from that ebay. UPGRADED MARINES ARE GODLY. The mutas mainly delayed your push, but they didn't do too much damage aside from 7-9 scv's, but you overstimmed  not a big deal though but minor things you can improve on. Since mutas were out by the time u got medivacs, dropping was probably not viable. However, he got barely any of them out (only 7).
YOUR BIG AND MAIN ENGAGE : you weren't too behind in army, and terran armies usually are more cost effective. however, you kept your tanks grouped up. DONT DO THAT. spread ur tanks out and slowpush. you also didnt kill any creep tumors, so the zerg had easy access to you.
However, you did the right thing by focusing the mutas with marines. He lost the battle and you came out ahead.
WHY DID YOU UNSIEGE ALL YOUR TANKS. unsiege slowly. unsiege 1, move him closer, siege him up. then repeat as you slowly leap-frog up to his hatcheries. you lost 3 tanks to like a few roaches since you completely unsieged your tanks. DONT DO THAT EVER. afterwards, you float 600 minerals and have nearly no gas since you didn't take your naturals gas. You can't continue tank production due to the lack of gas and you pretty much tap out b/c of that.
The reactor hellion build i use is
10 Depot
12 Rax
13 Gas
15 Orbital
16 Supply
16 Factory, swap reactor on baracks asap, and use baracks to make tech lab
20-22 CC
once reactor is done swap with fact and continue making hellions. Optimally, get 4
Around 22-24 food you want to throw up a depot.
When you have the money, throw down a 2nd baracks and lift off the initial baracks from its tech lab to create another
Afterwards, go harass with the 4 hellions, swap factory to tech lab and rax to reactor. Throw down a starport. ideally, you will have 1 fact with tech, 2 rax 1 with react 1 with tech, and a starport building. Get siege and stim and pump marines tanks and a medivac non-stop. Once your medivac completes, get a reactor on the starport.
I have hwk, so i may or may not watch the 2nd replay. GL and cheers!! if u need any help, im on the NA server. OneManArmy.579
Edit : I also notice you aren't muling and your cc's float a bit of energy. CALL DOWN THOSE MULES!! THEY ARE HATED BY Z AND P FOR A REASON  Also, you probably could've won, since you did hold it off, but you didn't get tanks and you pull too many scv's off when he attacks, and u still didn't get a bunker!! however, don't worry about that, focus on improving your build, macro, hellion control, and making sure you respond to what you see.
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About game 1:
Your hellions did some nice damage after your opponent made a lot of lings; I think at that point you were probably ahead, but you slacked a bit on marine production and on SCV production: from around 4:55 SCV production gets a bit sloppy, and you have plenty of idle barracks time - for example you could have made a marine before your first tech lab, and later when you have more barracks they spend too much time idle - every time I checked you had resources to be making more marines.
If you had those extra marines out when he hit with the roaches I think you would have had a much easier job holding off the attack. It wasn't quite all in, since the Zerg was droning behind it, but it was definitely very committal, and the SCVs you lose defending it put you behind (when the second wave hits, your opponent has double your supply).
After that I think you did ok considering you were so far behind, but remember that roaches only cost 25 gas - the same as a baneling. It's absolutely possible to go roaches and mutalisks, there's no problem with the gas. Not being prepared for the mutas (I think most terrans just blindly make turrets against zerg?) makes a bad situation worse. At the 17minute mark you have 18 SCVs, so the game is totally lost at this point.
About game 2:
Again here I think your unit production let you down. I think you did an ok job holding off the roach bust, but watch how long it takes you to get your production going afterwards - you can make 4 marines and 1 tank at a time but you rarely stay on top of this. Remember to call down mules.
I don't know enough about your build to criticise it, but it seems you are powering at a point in the game where it isn't really so safe - researching stim and adding barracks at the same time (perhaps you can stagger these somewhat, or else pay more attention to your opponent to see if it's safe to power). If you keep your Hellions more active (Xel'Naga towers) and see the roaches coming you can be better prepared with SCVs to repair the wall or a bunker.
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I'll tackle the second replay. Here's why you bit it.
1.) You made 3 marines and 4 hellions. You made 1 marauder, last-minute. You should probably have more army than this by the 6-7 minute mark. If you go with a light, harassy force, do no damage, and then get attacked by a heavy, immobile force, you are probably in trouble.
2.) Repair your supply depot - no reason to let roaches break through.
3a.) You scouted that he had a ton of lings and roaches...
3b.) And then attacked into them with your smaller force, getting caught unsieged.
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If you want to do harass, you need to make sure that harass accomplishes something.You need to use those hellions to keep the roaches in his base - As soon as his roaches moved off-creep, you should have gone for his mineral line. What else are you going to do with the hellions?
He would have had to leave roaches behind or lose drones.
tl;dr: If your going to skimp on units and rely on harass to keep an opponent from attacking you, make sure it does. Also, don't get caught with your marine/tank push unsieged.
-Cross
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EPT
