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this build is THE shit, i love it!
Im a mid diamond player and used to use the iechoic 3 hellion drop build.
But with this i open up with reapers, can expand very early and makes it easy to tech to ghosts.
Unfortunately i never were able to kill more than 3-4 probes with my reapers, do i have to do more dmg with them ?
Nevertheless, great build, great guide, thanks
The way I see it because the reapers allow you to get your expand up quicker and your third racks faster, even if they don't recoup their resource cost in probe kills they are worth it for the scouting alone. The more you practice it the better your harass will get as well. Also remember there is nothing wrong with only getting one or even no kills and then leaving if it means you don't loose any reapers. They are great for controlling watchtowers and killing scouts and pylons around the map. And just the plain fact that he knows you have them still alive forces him to leave units in his main, making any attack that he might make weaker, and making any attack that you do on his front stronger.
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This build makes my probes curl up rocking in corners.
I never understood why you guys stopped using these after the nerf. They're not outright ridiculous anymore, but they're still scary as hell and the unexpectedness factor is huge.
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Thanks for all the great feedback guys! I just added a replay of how my build worked against a nifty warp prism opening.
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are any of the replays vs a good blink stalker opener? if so which one?
if not, how would you handle it?
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are any of the replays vs a good blink stalker opener? if so which one?
if not, how would you handle it?
The closest replay I've uploaded is the one labeled "fast expand into blink stalker". I find with blink stalker you can usually get a good sense that its coming, you should probably see the twilight council with your reapers and the heavy stalker count should lead you towards blink instead of charge. I find against blink you probably want to delay your main push until you have medivacs, without healing the stalkers can out micro you and wear you down if they are good players. Your army should be strong enough to defend against blink stalkers as long as you are in a good position. On that note, because your push is going to be later anyways, delay one of your upgrades, probably +1 and invest the gas in a sensor tower.
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Micromancer don't you dare put my replays up (Sidereal). Anyway, good opener as a P player I think it adds dimension since with this opener you are less certain of how the T early game will go when you see marine + tech lab. Anyway, next time I play you I got a build for you, so watch out!
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no replay vs voidray allins? please upload one!
very nice build!
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no replay vs voidray allins? please upload one!
very nice build!
I'm keeping an eye out, but I haven't been voidray allined in ages. Like I'm talking a patch or two ago. I just don't really see it anymore. I'll post one as soon as it happens though.
Oh I just uploaded a really good game vs a FE into zealot archon HT that ended up doing really well against my opener. Though my reaper harass was less good, but I thought the lategame was handled really well.
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I just wanted to make a note for you guys about how this has been affected my the new patch.
Immortal Pushes. The great thing about this build is the amount of scouting information you get early on, a normal early immortal push will be a 1gate into robo into more gates. Its important to build extra bunkers at your natural to survive these. I like only putting one marine in each bunker. your opponent wont know how many are in there and still focus the bunkers down but it prevents your units from being caught in front of force fields after the bunker falls. There are a few pushes that rely on high immortal numbers, around 3-4. If you keep your build tight and don't forget to put your ghost academy down while you are microing your group of 3 reapers. You should have ghosts by the time this hits which is a great counter.
Warp Prisms. There are a few ways to deal with this depending on what style of warp prism play they are going for. If they commit alot to it early, like a 2 immortal warp prism drop. I find its best to keep a small group of marines in your base and do the ghost push like normal. You need to multitask like a beast to make sure that warp prism cant deploy or if it does it at least gets picked off, but he shouldn't have enough at home to defend. If he brings his warp prism back in time to defend, think about just poking and then returning. Keep in mind some of your army is at home while he has all of his there. You shut down his harras by forcing it back, fall back and expand.
Mid and late game WP play is best countered with a sensor tower i find. You don't want to have to leave large amounts of units at home just in case, so some active marines and a sensor tower just stop it from ever taking off without being a large commitment.
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Dude...congratulations. YOUR A FUCKING GENIUS
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United States40 Posts
I'm a 1250 Masters T. I have struggled mightily in TvP for a long time, easily my worst matchup. I have tried so many other options to just standard MMMVG, which I find is very hard to control in the late game. The 1-1-1's, Thor/Ghost's, etc. I saw this post yesterday and went ahead and tried it and I kinda fell in love with the build. There are so many things that can go wrong for the P with this build, which I really like.
The first game I tried it, I lured his first stalker out to the third base with my scv and popped in with the first reaper and got 4 probe kills to start. I also scouted 3 gate at that point. I went back in with 3 reapers shortly after (while also having my expo and bunker going down). The Protoss decided to go 4-gate and had pushed out halfway across the map with no defense at home when the 3 reapers popped in. I proceeded to kill about 11 more probes before he warped in a stalker to take out the remaining reapers (this is when I scouted the 4-gate). I held the 4-gate with ease at home with 1 bunker on the high ground behind a walled off ramp.
The next game I only produced 2 reapers because I saw him move out with 3 stalkers with my xel-naga scout so I thought heavy stalker pressure was inbound which led me to cut the 3rd reaper and make a rauder. The 2 reapers had 11 probe kills by the 7 minute mark.
What I really like about this build is the scouting info you get from the reaper pokes, but more importantly, severely crippling the P early game econ which in effect lessens the power of any all-in type builds.
I only got 2 P opponents last night, but I used this build both times with great success.
Micromancer, you sir, are the man! Gunna keep rolling this build out until it starts to get countered hard.
P.S. - After killing 11 probes, the 2nd P I played goes "WHO MAKES 2 REAPERS", I say, "This Guy!".
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:D jumpping on the AG train... thanks for the guide, reaper not at all unusable!
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I am gonna watch out that zealot archon stuff... do u by any chance incorporate reapers as part of the composition vs that?? i mean, 3-3 reapers i believe could demolish zealots, and they are SOOO fast they get out of storms quick
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Just a tip, I used to be a Terran player but I have now switched to Toss, a Reaper can beat a Sentry in a 1v1 fight
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@ Mungmin, great to hear your enjoying the build as much as i do. I was really hoping someone would have fun with it.
@ xTrim
+ Show Spoiler +I am gonna watch out that zealot archon stuff... do u by any chance incorporate reapers as part of the composition vs that?? i mean, 3-3 reapers i believe could demolish zealots, and they are SOOO fast they get out of storms quick
I've tried incorporating them in into a normal composition but there are a few problems there from what i have tried:
-First is their long build time, reapers are flimsy as is and making them in large numbers will drastically impact your army size. There are a few times in the game when i feel it can be effective to make them:+ Show Spoiler +at the start where the defenders advantage with a bunker is so high they cannot punish you for it, when you are ahead and know you can't be attacked right away. It not only allows you to keep the pressure on but you can use the minearls your not spending on units to increase your barracks number for a larger army later. You can make them as you approach max, when you are going to be stock piling money instead of spending it anyways. And you can make them when you are really behind and need a bit of luck to pull out a win anyways.
-Second their range: they have one less range than a marine so they end up at the front of your army with high target priority. Not only doe they die really quick, but your own troops prevent them from kiting well. If you have really good control I imagine they could do ok vs pure zealot archon, but If you have a fair amount of reapers out and they don't have any stalkers then they have probably already lost all their probes.
There are a few situations I have found when I manage to keep my reapers alive into the mid game, where it can be useful to hop them up a ramp and pick off sentries ahead of your main army. Ive had a few cases where their high dps can really make a difference, but i feel it is vary situational and would be hard to force to work. I think If you have a few reapers left over after a harass it is good to be aware of what you might be able to use them for. But they should not be made specifically for that purpose as it usually relies on bad unit positioning by your opponent.
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You don't even need 3/3 reapers, you can just sit 6 behind your lines and 1 shot every zealot that comes at you. With marauder slow, you can completely destroy any zealots in a small unit numbers early game with even 2 reapers.
1 Marauder + slow + reaper can beat 1 stalker + zealot quite handily. I fought a guy going charge lot + storm with mass reaper + marauder and all the charge zealots melted in about 5 seconds to about 10 reapers
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I want to point out that when HotS is released, this build is going to be a little more effective, especially pertaining to the tactics you suggest when using reapers such as running and saving them for a later harass. With the reaper's regeneration this will be very viable. Although killing pylon's/depots/spawning pools will not work.
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do you have some reps in 1.4 where you had to deal with a zealot heavy army ?
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1.4 replays would be most welcome =) The old marauder expand/gasless FE is very stale indeed.
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EPT
