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[G] Micromancer's TvP Reaper Opening

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Micromancer
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada116 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-30 22:26:12
September 13 2011 02:39 GMT
#1
[G] Micromancer's TvP Reaper Opening

Introduction


Hi my name is Micromancer, and this is my first post on TL!, I've been an avid reader for about 2 years since i started in scbw, i was D+ to C- on iccup and now i am a masters player on the NA server, last season i was ranked 8 in my division with around 1700 points. This season i haven't had much time to practice due to school and work and i am around 30th in my division at the moment.

I wanted to write up this TvP build I've been doing for a few seasons now, I think its a great well rounded build order that allows you to expand, attack, harass, and make use of one of the coolest units in the game!

Highlights

+ Show Spoiler +
-fast expansion
-early harass options
-upgrades started early
-powerful timing attack to punish unprepared/ greedy players
-transition into a standard midgame!


The Reaper

+ Show Spoiler +
I wanted to do a quick section on my thoughts on the reaper, because i feel it is a very underused unit that many people don't quite understand.

-Harassing- most people are aware that reapers can be used for this, that it takes 3 shots to kill a probe and they can jump over small cliffs. I would just like to add that with +1 reapers can kill probes int 2 shots....

-Scouting- make sure that if your doing multiple reaper harasses over the course of the game that you send them down different routs to and through your opponent's base, just by setting a few extra way points you can check likely proxy locations that would otherwise be hard to scout, and once in the base you can get a great look at your opponents build order.

-As combat units- Reapers can kill a sentry 1 on 1, a great trade early on, if your opponent opts to go sentry first instead of stalker, you can kill the sentry and sometimes even get a few probes on top of it! Against zealots you can out micro them but they take a long time to kill, it is usually best to kite past them and then start targeting the probe line. 3 reapers can kill a single stalker if they only leave one behind to defend a mineral line, however it is usually best to just take the hits and target probes, as you will be 1 shoting them.

-As an economic tool- what i find the most interesting about reapers is their economic function, because they have very low resource costs coupled with a very long build time you have alot of excess minerals to spend on other things. I use this early on in my build to get a fair amount of infrastructure up a lot quicker than you would normally be able to but this can also have late game applications: feeling safe for a min and want to expand? Make a round of reapers! Will let you save up the needed money very quickly and give you an excellent harass unit. Need to get a bunch more barracks up because you just expanded? Make another round of reapers!


Opening

+ Show Spoiler +
This is a variation on a two racks expand however you will notice that you get your expansion and following structures up a lot quicker because of the reaper instead of marauder production.

-supply at your ramp –send scv to scout after
-barracks
-gas
-supply also at your ramp (after this just don't get supply blocked, i don't remember the supply timings)
-marine/orbital command at the same time
-tech lab on racks
-2nd racks
-you are going to start making the first of 4 consecutive reapers from your first barracks you will send your first one to scout/ harass and hide your next 3
-reactor on 2nd racks

At this point there is a bit of a deviation, depending on what you scout, it is going to determine how fast you can squeeze out your expansion. You are looking for his gateway production and chrono boost usage, If he either sends his first zealot at your base immediately, or uses any chrono on his gateway, you need to build a bunker walling off between the supply depots at your ramp immediately. For the very early part of the game you will only have 1 marine and if he pushes with his first few units and you don't have the wall off and bunker ready you are in for a world of hurt. If he does not spend any chrono on his gateway and either chases your scv with his zealot or sends it to his ramp you can build your cc alot faster.

So, if you see chrono on gateway or an aggressive zealot
+ Show Spoiler +
-bunker
-cc in your main
-3rd racks
-supply
-tech lab on 3rd racks


Passive zealot/ no zealot and no chrono on stalker
+ Show Spoiler +
-cc
-3rd racks
-bunker
-supply
-tech lab on 3rd racks


around this point your first reaper should be getting to your opponent's base, if you can keep your initial scouting scv alive and hide it close by it is awesome to poke up the ramp and then run away to see if you can draw his units after it while you hop up into the back of his main to scout/harass.

After your harass you should have a wall off with a bunker. You should have 3 racks 1 reactor 2 tech labs, and 2ccs in your main. Your army at this point probably consists of either 1-3 marines and 2 reapers, depending on how long your harass lasted and when your reactor finishes. At this point your next move is going to be your 3 reaper harass. This is important however, only build 1 marauder out of your 2nd tech racks, it should finish about the same time as your last reaper. You should have ~ 1 marauder, 7 marines and 3 reapers. At this point you have some choices to make. In general there are around 3 different looks you will see from the protoss. I am not going to go too much into detail into the scouting because there are other guides out there that already go into that very well.

Protoss has expanded and is at his ramp
+ Show Spoiler +

add concusive shell and push out with your force while sending your reapers around the back. Move your cc down to your natural. DO NOT engage with your main army unless he pulls his forces way out of position or is playing very greedy, scan his army before you move in to make sure you know what he has, your main army is not strong and its only purpose is to try to get him to draw all of his forces to his natural while your 3 reapers pop into his main and start poping probes. As soon as he trys to engage your main force retreat it back to your base while you micro your reapers.


Protoss is one basing: 4 gate or void ray all in

+ Show Spoiler +
wait at the top of your ramp for him to engage, you've had your 2nd cc for along time, if you can survive you have a large lead, pull some scvs to your bunker. Keep your reapers close to his base and once he attacks you pop into the back and start killing probes, this will affect the reinforcement of his attack greatly and can cause him to turn around giving you more time. Once you defend it move down to your natural


Protoss is containing you with sentries at the bottom of your ramp and expanding behind it.

+ Show Spoiler +
Most of his army is at your base your reaper harass should do great damage, wait for gohsts or medivacs to try and break the contain. If you feel risky you can also try to run down the ramp and engage will he is looking at his base trying to deal with the reapers. You want to secure your natural as fast as you can safely. It is worthwhile to sac a marine or scv to run down the ramp now and then just to check if he is still there, especially in the higher leagues where your opponent will know medivac timings very well, they often pull back on their own so they don't get caught with their pants down with a drop. There's nothing worse than waiting for medivacs, setting up a beautiful flank and then realizing he's not even there and you could have been mining from your natural for minuets already.


After the reaper harass is over you are going to gear up for a ghost, stim , combat shield +1 timing attack.

Besides the 1 marauder you made out of your third barracks, you dont want to make any more for awhile, just pump marines, you are going to spend your gas on upgrades.

After the orbital comand on your expansion is done you want to spend your minerals on an e-bay and a second refinery. Your gas should be spent on and in this order: stim, +1 attack, combat shield, ghost academy, make a round of marauders, make 2 ghosts.

Around the 10 min mark you should be ready to attack you should have around 3 marauders, 2 ghosts, and a tone of marines. People underestimate this attack and it has potential to do game ending damage around the 11 min mark. It should be timed so that his tech is either not out or just starting to come out. I personally like to send my ghosts back to my base after they emp, if you baby sit them those ghosts will last the whole game and that is worth way more than whatever damage they do in a fight. As you move out you are going to add a factory and 2 more racks, with the intent of getting a reactored starport up right away. You can also try expanding behind this push if you have the minerals.

At the time this push ends you should have 5 racks, a reactor starport, a ghost academy, and possible your third on the way. At this point you can play the game out according to your style and tendencies.


Nifty things to try


+ Show Spoiler +

As you can probably tell I'm a big fan of drawing thier army out of position with an scv or your own army, then popping reapers or a drop in the back!

As a follow up, if you do a lot of army damage, aka he won't be able to attack for a bit, make another round of 4-6 reapers, get them reaper speed and and poke at him while you expand! Be light with their harass, don't be scared to run away, you can find a hole later and do more damage with them!

Have some late game reapers? drop a ghost in his base with cloak, nuke his ramp to prevent his army from coming back up into his main and go to town on his buildings with your reapers!

I mentioned I like to babysit my ghosts, if they end up getting caught in front after they emp and your up for a bit of micro, pick them up in a medivac and take them to the back of the army where they belong.

Like early aggression? If your initial scouting scv doesn't see a zealot being made out of the gateway and they don't chrono boost their stalker send your first marine straight into their base, coupled with your scouting scv you can usually get somewhere between 1-3 probe kills and you always disrupt their mining. If you want to try this you have to send your first marine immediately, and then keep an eye on their gateway, if you see him start a zealot, or throw down any chrono just turn your marine right back around. If you wait to see if he starts a zealot it will be too late to send your marine. Also if you do get your marine into his base it is good to build another marine out of your second barracks before starting your reactor, so you have something to put in your bunker if he pushes right back with his stalker.



Replays

I have been practicing gasless expanding for awhile just for a change but now i have returned to my roots and will be uploading replays from the current patch. So far still a very viable build.

Just a quick note i have also started experimenting with kinda maka-racksing my first racks, you delay your gas a little longer and it really looks like you are going cc first or 2 proxy racks. Your reapers do come out a little later though. I've made a few other changes as well in the time since i posted the OP and will get around to adding them in soon. So if my play looks a little different from what is described dont be surprised. All of the main points are still covered in the replays.

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More to come soon


Pre Patch Replays


+ Show Spoiler +
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Here is a game where i kind of fumbled through the opening, I was thrown off by his nexus first. But if you want to see how I like to approach the late game vs zealot archon, high templar style I thought this was a really good example.

[image loading]

And if your a T player who wants a bit of a laugh check this one out!

[image loading]


Like I said this is my first post, If you have any suggestions or anything you would like clarified please just let me know

Cheers!

Micromancer
Screaming for vengance
Darkness2k11
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Chile313 Posts
September 13 2011 02:57 GMT
#2
Are you the Micromancer I know? If so, this guy SERIOUSLY likes reapers ;P
When Behind, Dark Shrine
Micromancer
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada116 Posts
September 13 2011 03:29 GMT
#3
You know it!, hey darkness, we gotta get stuff going in the ag channel again, its died down soo much.
Screaming for vengance
frantic.cactus
Profile Joined April 2010
New Zealand164 Posts
September 13 2011 09:48 GMT
#4
This looks cool, will give it a try for sure! Thanks
Terran it up since 2007
mage36
Profile Joined May 2011
415 Posts
September 13 2011 10:06 GMT
#5
Are there any times when the protoss is able to keep up with your reaper? Like maybe early stalkers will help a lot against this? How many probes do you think you have to kill for you to feel it's worth losing one reaper?
b4SiC
Profile Joined April 2010
United States11 Posts
September 13 2011 10:06 GMT
#6
Nice guide Micro its nuCLEAR =) hope everything is going good.
rebotfc
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom144 Posts
September 13 2011 13:12 GMT
#7
One thing i've always wanted to try is using 6 or so reapers to hit pylons early game de-powering warp gates. Then pushing with an army from the front. How many reapers to 2-shot a pylon, maybe 6?
Grubbegrabbn
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden174 Posts
September 13 2011 13:34 GMT
#8
Good guide, I especially like the scouting section and how to react to what you see... and the response to the top 3 Protoss pressure tactics.

This is very much like the Zoias TvT Reaper Marauder Ghost. These two will be my to-go TvP and TvT builds from now on. Because reapers are so much fun :D


Huggerz
Profile Joined May 2011
Great Britain919 Posts
September 13 2011 14:39 GMT
#9
You make a good argument for using reapers. I will try the build

I would worry about defending 3g Void Ray though. Don't have that many marines when it hits and totally reliant on bunkers to defend... but I suppose likelihood of scouting it is very high
“It's like poker. You can play your best, but you've got to know when to fold your cards and take a rest, and know when to hold your cards, hold your breath and hope that nobody else is stacking the deck."
Marooned
Profile Joined January 2011
Norway161 Posts
September 13 2011 15:58 GMT
#10
Nice build. Kinda the same as this one witch Ive tested with great success http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=263743
I think I prefer Kiri's version just cause of the minute later expo (a bit safer if void ray all-in or 4 gate), nitro pack and it gets tech going alot sooner witch is very nice cause the reapers force P into a defensive stance if you keep them alive, witch I guess is the whole point.
I like how you describe how to force the reapers to do worker damage with army movement and using an scv as a retard magnet.
thobel
Profile Joined August 2010
United States37 Posts
September 13 2011 16:07 GMT
#11
I've been doing this in all matchups for a while, transitioning into an MMM midgame with one or two types support units (situational). Though I don't always make four reapers. Works great at at least the mid masters level. Reapers are totally underused for how cheap they are, especially if you have a bio-heavy midgame where you'll have a lot of rax.
ToastieNL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands845 Posts
September 13 2011 16:26 GMT
#12
+1, Like, whatever!
Really nice build.
Zerg lategame is imbalanced as shit. Also: "Protoss is really strong recently. Perhaps, it's time for there to be some changes for Terran." -MMA. Even MMA asks for buffs. Srsly Blizzard. Srsly.
JesMaz
Profile Joined June 2011
United States16 Posts
September 13 2011 18:19 GMT
#13
i am curious how you would respond to a Stargate opening? as it seems that this strategy might have some vulnerabilities in that area. Do you have any replays??
Within you there is a stillness and sanctuary to which you can retreat at any time and be yourself.
Micromancer
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada116 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-13 20:19:11
September 13 2011 20:17 GMT
#14
Are there any times when the protoss is able to keep up with your reaper? Like maybe early stalkers will help a lot against this? How many probes do you think you have to kill for you to feel it's worth losing one reaper?


If the protoss has his stalkers in a good position, it can prevent your reapers from doing damage, however if you can draw them out of position by moving forward with your army or a scout, you can force the issue. Also I find that even if you can't do damage with your reapers, just back out and keep them alive. You have a very early expansion, you don't have to do damage. You can just show your reapers to him, and then leave, this usually causes him to position his forces in a defensive position around his base. Take the opportunity to float down and secure your natural.

i am curious how you would respond to a Stargate opening? as it seems that this strategy might have some vulnerabilities in that area. Do you have any replays??


I would worry about defending 3g Void Ray though. Don't have that many marines when it hits and totally reliant on bunkers to defend... but I suppose likelihood of scouting it is very high


Stargate is actually one of the easiest openings to deal with with this build up i find. Because you don't spend your gas on marauders early on you actually have a lot of marines sitting around. You have a very quick reactor and can produce marines 4 at a time. You also get a very quick stim/combat shield so I have never had a problem. With void ray all ins, as soon as you scout it build a bunker or two farther back from the ramp, i find the ramp location is hard to hold but if you just salvage the bunker and replace the supply depots farther back you are fine. Ideally you want your bunker positioned so that it is just in range of units that would be exiting from your ramp. The only replays i could find of void ray all ins are very old and from previous patches, and were not very competitive games. Keep in mind if you manage to keep your set of 3 reapers hidden you can often do a lot of economic damage to them as their attack commences and they are out of position. If they go phoenixes it is almost an auto win for you as soon as your ghosts pop out. Just make sure your ghosts don't get separated from your army and picked up as you attack. Against stargate openings all you have to do is survive until your stim shield +1 finishes. Then you have a very marines heavy composition +ghosts and are in an ideal position to end the game quickly.

I will post replays as soon as I can.
Screaming for vengance
JesMaz
Profile Joined June 2011
United States16 Posts
September 13 2011 20:55 GMT
#15
On September 14 2011 05:17 Micromancer wrote:

Stargate is actually one of the easiest openings to deal with with this build up i find. Because you don't spend your gas on marauders early on you actually have a lot of marines sitting around. You have a very quick reactor and can produce marines 4 at a time. You also get a very quick stim/combat shield so I have never had a problem. With void ray all ins, as soon as you scout it build a bunker or two farther back from the ramp, i find the ramp location is hard to hold but if you just salvage the bunker and replace the supply depots farther back you are fine. Ideally you want your bunker positioned so that it is just in range of units that would be exiting from your ramp. The only replays i could find of void ray all ins are very old and from previous patches, and were not very competitive games. Keep in mind if you manage to keep your set of 3 reapers hidden you can often do a lot of economic damage to them as their attack commences and they are out of position. If they go phoenixes it is almost an auto win for you as soon as your ghosts pop out. Just make sure your ghosts don't get separated from your army and picked up as you attack. Against stargate openings all you have to do is survive until your stim shield +1 finishes. Then you have a very marines heavy composition +ghosts and are in an ideal position to end the game quickly.

I will post replays as soon as I can.



I was thinking of more like a Stargate opening that isn't a Void Ray all in. My Reaper harass is negated and I am forced to turtle seems like the game would favor him and not me.
Within you there is a stillness and sanctuary to which you can retreat at any time and be yourself.
DjRetro
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Chile309 Posts
September 13 2011 21:32 GMT
#16
I'm gonna see these replays, this build looks very interesting, in words at least

Thank you! reapers for the win!!
SpaceSynth-ItaloDisco-HiNRG http://www.radiostaddenhaag.com/
Micromancer
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada116 Posts
September 14 2011 07:36 GMT
#17
I was thinking of more like a Stargate opening that isn't a Void Ray all in. My Reaper harass is negated and I am forced to turtle seems like the game would favor him and not me.


If you mean phoenixs? just build a turret in each mineral patch to minimize harass, and make sure they don't pick off your ghosts. When your first push comes he will be hard pressed not to just die, you have a lot of marines, stim and combat shield, not to mention if you manage to EMP the pheonixs they become completely useless. In my experience their small gateway force is just not enough to hold this push. I am being completely honest when i say i think this build hard counters phoenix play, i don't think i've lost a single game to it.

If you mean some kind of void ray contain to stop you from taking your natural. I mean that's always tricky to deal with because you have a late star port so medivacs to circumvent the contain or vikings to kill the void ray are a long way off. I've only ran into that strategy once or twice, but I think you should be able to treat it just like in my walk through for if they are containing you with sentries. If his units are all at your ramp stopping you from leaving, chances are you can run around and do serious damage with the reapers, you can try to stim down the ramp while he is distracted by your reaper harass. You can try to float your second orbital to a close by air spot if you like. Or try to get a good emp off so you can just power through anyways. Worst comes to worst you can break out as soon as your starport is up, even though you've been stuck on 1 base you still have a very powerful attack, your ghosts should have a tone of emp banked up.

If those situations aren't quite what you were thinking just let me know, and maybe describe in more detail what you mean.
Screaming for vengance
Thezzy
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands2117 Posts
September 14 2011 10:02 GMT
#18
How will this deal with 1 base colossus if you're going heavily towards marines?
Starports are nice but won't marine heavy plays vaporize against Colossi?
Playing Terran is like flying down a MULE drop in a marine suit, firing a Gauss Rifle
Micromancer
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada116 Posts
September 14 2011 16:07 GMT
#19
How will this deal with 1 base colossus if you're going heavily towards marines?
Starports are nice but won't marine heavy plays vaporize against Colossi?


It's not the easiest thing in the world to deal with, but its not the worst either, Colossus are really expensive and if they are trying to support them off one base they have a relatively small gateway army. They usually push out with their first two, which isn't a tone to deal with. You have to engage in an area where you have room to spread and if you can EMP their gateway army, I find that well your marines will die fast they have such a high damage output that you can just melt their gateway units and have enough left over to kill or at least force back the colossus. It all comes down to how you engage. I'm pretty sure I have a replay of vs one base collossus, you should give that a watch.
Screaming for vengance
seph`
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Austria329 Posts
September 15 2011 05:44 GMT
#20
this build is THE shit, i love it!
Im a mid diamond player and used to use the iechoic 3 hellion drop build.
But with this i open up with reapers, can expand very early and makes it easy to tech to ghosts.
Unfortunately i never were able to kill more than 3-4 probes with my reapers, do i have to do more dmg with them ?

Nevertheless, great build, great guide, thanks
Micromancer
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada116 Posts
September 15 2011 06:29 GMT
#21
this build is THE shit, i love it!
Im a mid diamond player and used to use the iechoic 3 hellion drop build.
But with this i open up with reapers, can expand very early and makes it easy to tech to ghosts.
Unfortunately i never were able to kill more than 3-4 probes with my reapers, do i have to do more dmg with them ?

Nevertheless, great build, great guide, thanks


The way I see it because the reapers allow you to get your expand up quicker and your third racks faster, even if they don't recoup their resource cost in probe kills they are worth it for the scouting alone. The more you practice it the better your harass will get as well. Also remember there is nothing wrong with only getting one or even no kills and then leaving if it means you don't loose any reapers. They are great for controlling watchtowers and killing scouts and pylons around the map. And just the plain fact that he knows you have them still alive forces him to leave units in his main, making any attack that he might make weaker, and making any attack that you do on his front stronger.
Screaming for vengance
jjhchsc2
Profile Joined December 2010
Korea (South)2393 Posts
September 15 2011 06:48 GMT
#22
wow nice build.
hehehe
Lee Ssang/ Lee Shin/ Kim Jung Woo/ Kim Min Chul/Jun Tae Yang/Park Soo Ho/Lee Jung Hoon/Choi Sung Hoon/ Moon Sung Won/Park Ji Soo/ Lee Ho Joon/ Jang Min Chul/ Kim Seung Chul/SaSe/IdrA/Ret Fighting! BW4Life
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6226 Posts
September 15 2011 07:33 GMT
#23
This build makes my probes curl up rocking in corners.

I never understood why you guys stopped using these after the nerf. They're not outright ridiculous anymore, but they're still scary as hell and the unexpectedness factor is huge.
Micromancer
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada116 Posts
September 16 2011 19:04 GMT
#24
Thanks for all the great feedback guys! I just added a replay of how my build worked against a nifty warp prism opening.
Screaming for vengance
spbelky
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States623 Posts
September 16 2011 19:12 GMT
#25
are any of the replays vs a good blink stalker opener? if so which one?
if not, how would you handle it?
Micromancer
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada116 Posts
September 16 2011 22:00 GMT
#26
are any of the replays vs a good blink stalker opener? if so which one?
if not, how would you handle it?


The closest replay I've uploaded is the one labeled "fast expand into blink stalker". I find with blink stalker you can usually get a good sense that its coming, you should probably see the twilight council with your reapers and the heavy stalker count should lead you towards blink instead of charge. I find against blink you probably want to delay your main push until you have medivacs, without healing the stalkers can out micro you and wear you down if they are good players. Your army should be strong enough to defend against blink stalkers as long as you are in a good position. On that note, because your push is going to be later anyways, delay one of your upgrades, probably +1 and invest the gas in a sensor tower.
Screaming for vengance
tehemperorer
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2183 Posts
September 16 2011 22:25 GMT
#27
Micromancer don't you dare put my replays up (Sidereal). Anyway, good opener as a P player I think it adds dimension since with this opener you are less certain of how the T early game will go when you see marine + tech lab. Anyway, next time I play you I got a build for you, so watch out!
Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers.
kusu
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden440 Posts
September 17 2011 22:54 GMT
#28
no replay vs voidray allins? please upload one!
very nice build!
Expa bör man annars dör man! A game withouth me, is a game not worth winning!
Micromancer
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada116 Posts
September 18 2011 08:35 GMT
#29
no replay vs voidray allins? please upload one!
very nice build!


I'm keeping an eye out, but I haven't been voidray allined in ages. Like I'm talking a patch or two ago. I just don't really see it anymore. I'll post one as soon as it happens though.

Oh I just uploaded a really good game vs a FE into zealot archon HT that ended up doing really well against my opener. Though my reaper harass was less good, but I thought the lategame was handled really well.
Screaming for vengance
Micromancer
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada116 Posts
October 20 2011 19:39 GMT
#30
I just wanted to make a note for you guys about how this has been affected my the new patch.

Immortal Pushes. The great thing about this build is the amount of scouting information you get early on, a normal early immortal push will be a 1gate into robo into more gates. Its important to build extra bunkers at your natural to survive these. I like only putting one marine in each bunker. your opponent wont know how many are in there and still focus the bunkers down but it prevents your units from being caught in front of force fields after the bunker falls. There are a few pushes that rely on high immortal numbers, around 3-4. If you keep your build tight and don't forget to put your ghost academy down while you are microing your group of 3 reapers. You should have ghosts by the time this hits which is a great counter.

Warp Prisms. There are a few ways to deal with this depending on what style of warp prism play they are going for. If they commit alot to it early, like a 2 immortal warp prism drop. I find its best to keep a small group of marines in your base and do the ghost push like normal. You need to multitask like a beast to make sure that warp prism cant deploy or if it does it at least gets picked off, but he shouldn't have enough at home to defend. If he brings his warp prism back in time to defend, think about just poking and then returning. Keep in mind some of your army is at home while he has all of his there. You shut down his harras by forcing it back, fall back and expand.

Mid and late game WP play is best countered with a sensor tower i find. You don't want to have to leave large amounts of units at home just in case, so some active marines and a sensor tower just stop it from ever taking off without being a large commitment.
Screaming for vengance
NoisyNinja
Profile Joined February 2011
United States991 Posts
October 20 2011 23:38 GMT
#31
Dude...congratulations. YOUR A FUCKING GENIUS
Mungmin
Profile Joined September 2010
United States40 Posts
October 21 2011 13:19 GMT
#32
I'm a 1250 Masters T. I have struggled mightily in TvP for a long time, easily my worst matchup. I have tried so many other options to just standard MMMVG, which I find is very hard to control in the late game. The 1-1-1's, Thor/Ghost's, etc. I saw this post yesterday and went ahead and tried it and I kinda fell in love with the build. There are so many things that can go wrong for the P with this build, which I really like.

The first game I tried it, I lured his first stalker out to the third base with my scv and popped in with the first reaper and got 4 probe kills to start. I also scouted 3 gate at that point. I went back in with 3 reapers shortly after (while also having my expo and bunker going down). The Protoss decided to go 4-gate and had pushed out halfway across the map with no defense at home when the 3 reapers popped in. I proceeded to kill about 11 more probes before he warped in a stalker to take out the remaining reapers (this is when I scouted the 4-gate). I held the 4-gate with ease at home with 1 bunker on the high ground behind a walled off ramp.

The next game I only produced 2 reapers because I saw him move out with 3 stalkers with my xel-naga scout so I thought heavy stalker pressure was inbound which led me to cut the 3rd reaper and make a rauder. The 2 reapers had 11 probe kills by the 7 minute mark.

What I really like about this build is the scouting info you get from the reaper pokes, but more importantly, severely crippling the P early game econ which in effect lessens the power of any all-in type builds.

I only got 2 P opponents last night, but I used this build both times with great success.

Micromancer, you sir, are the man! Gunna keep rolling this build out until it starts to get countered hard.

P.S. - After killing 11 probes, the 2nd P I played goes "WHO MAKES 2 REAPERS", I say, "This Guy!".
Spec
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Taiwan931 Posts
October 21 2011 13:23 GMT
#33
:D jumpping on the AG train... thanks for the guide, reaper not at all unusable!
Eye for an eye make the world go blind - Gandhi
xTrim
Profile Joined April 2011
472 Posts
October 21 2011 16:36 GMT
#34
I am gonna watch out that zealot archon stuff... do u by any chance incorporate reapers as part of the composition vs that?? i mean, 3-3 reapers i believe could demolish zealots, and they are SOOO fast they get out of storms quick
astroorion
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1022 Posts
October 21 2011 21:23 GMT
#35
Just a tip, I used to be a Terran player but I have now switched to Toss, a Reaper can beat a Sentry in a 1v1 fight
MLG Admin | Astro.631 NA
Micromancer
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada116 Posts
October 21 2011 22:17 GMT
#36
@ Mungmin, great to hear your enjoying the build as much as i do. I was really hoping someone would have fun with it.

@ xTrim
+ Show Spoiler +
I am gonna watch out that zealot archon stuff... do u by any chance incorporate reapers as part of the composition vs that?? i mean, 3-3 reapers i believe could demolish zealots, and they are SOOO fast they get out of storms quick


I've tried incorporating them in into a normal composition but there are a few problems there from what i have tried:

-First is their long build time, reapers are flimsy as is and making them in large numbers will drastically impact your army size. There are a few times in the game when i feel it can be effective to make them:+ Show Spoiler +
at the start where the defenders advantage with a bunker is so high they cannot punish you for it, when you are ahead and know you can't be attacked right away. It not only allows you to keep the pressure on but you can use the minearls your not spending on units to increase your barracks number for a larger army later. You can make them as you approach max, when you are going to be stock piling money instead of spending it anyways. And you can make them when you are really behind and need a bit of luck to pull out a win anyways.


-Second their range: they have one less range than a marine so they end up at the front of your army with high target priority. Not only doe they die really quick, but your own troops prevent them from kiting well. If you have really good control I imagine they could do ok vs pure zealot archon, but If you have a fair amount of reapers out and they don't have any stalkers then they have probably already lost all their probes.

There are a few situations I have found when I manage to keep my reapers alive into the mid game, where it can be useful to hop them up a ramp and pick off sentries ahead of your main army. Ive had a few cases where their high dps can really make a difference, but i feel it is vary situational and would be hard to force to work. I think If you have a few reapers left over after a harass it is good to be aware of what you might be able to use them for. But they should not be made specifically for that purpose as it usually relies on bad unit positioning by your opponent.
Screaming for vengance
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-22 00:16:43
October 22 2011 00:15 GMT
#37
You don't even need 3/3 reapers, you can just sit 6 behind your lines and 1 shot every zealot that comes at you. With marauder slow, you can completely destroy any zealots in a small unit numbers early game with even 2 reapers.

1 Marauder + slow + reaper can beat 1 stalker + zealot quite handily. I fought a guy going charge lot + storm with mass reaper + marauder and all the charge zealots melted in about 5 seconds to about 10 reapers
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
HypaSnipa
Profile Joined June 2010
64 Posts
October 22 2011 00:41 GMT
#38
I want to point out that when HotS is released, this build is going to be a little more effective, especially pertaining to the tactics you suggest when using reapers such as running and saving them for a later harass. With the reaper's regeneration this will be very viable. Although killing pylon's/depots/spawning pools will not work.
seph`
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Austria329 Posts
October 27 2011 15:35 GMT
#39
do you have some reps in 1.4 where you had to deal with a zealot heavy army ?
k!llua
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Australia895 Posts
November 03 2011 15:14 GMT
#40
1.4 replays would be most welcome =) The old marauder expand/gasless FE is very stale indeed.
my hair is a wookie, your argument is invalid
Techno
Profile Joined June 2010
1900 Posts
November 03 2011 16:11 GMT
#41
Looks great on ladder but if they somehow knew you were doing this couldnt they just leave 1 stalker at the mineral line?
Hell, its awesome to LOSE to nukes!
Charger
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2405 Posts
November 03 2011 18:13 GMT
#42
On November 04 2011 01:11 Techno wrote:
Looks great on ladder but if they somehow knew you were doing this couldn't they just leave 1 stalker at the mineral line?


Even playing 100% straight up and standard, if your opponent somehow knows what you are doing it's going to be tough to do anything. Your statement pretty much covers every single strategy out there.
It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback.
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10325 Posts
November 03 2011 19:14 GMT
#43
wow sounds really fun, sort of like the 1 marauder 5-7 marine 1 reaper push (and their variations) but with 4 reapers :D

thx for sharing
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
riverkim09
Profile Joined November 2010
United States291 Posts
November 03 2011 19:16 GMT
#44
The reaper should be used to scout first b4 probe harrassing. Any sort of stargate play will crush this build if T keeps churning out reapers
leecx
Profile Joined September 2010
Singapore41 Posts
November 07 2011 16:04 GMT
#45
These past few games the protoss have been wising up to the reaper attacks. After the first scouting reaper they either leave stalkers near the cliff or near the mineral line. As you said, the first minipush isn't that threatening and it rarely causes them to pull the stalkers away from these hotspots. Would it be better to pull back and macro or to just run in anyway and try to get as many kills as possible?

Also, if the reapers fail to do damage, wouldn't you be playing from behind?
no u
Thylacine
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden882 Posts
November 09 2011 19:23 GMT
#46
Im not sure this build works in 1.4 at all but I will give it a try! its better then doing some random all in that i usually do in TvP atm :p
What you're looking at could be the end of a particularly terrifying nightmare. It isn't. It's the beginning. Introducing Mr. John Valentine, air traveler. His destination: the Twilight Zone...
Micromancer
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada116 Posts
December 06 2011 15:39 GMT
#47
These past few games the protoss have been wising up to the reaper attacks. After the first scouting reaper they either leave stalkers near the cliff or near the mineral line. As you said, the first minipush isn't that threatening and it rarely causes them to pull the stalkers away from these hotspots. Would it be better to pull back and macro or to just run in anyway and try to get as many kills as possible?

Also, if the reapers fail to do damage, wouldn't you be playing from behind?


It's always better to keep the reapers alive than to suicide if they are defending properly. You can still use them for scouting, denying watch towers, searching for pylons. and they are great for knocking down rocks. If your playing on antiga or shattered temple, its great to use them to take down the rocks at the alternate entrance to the protoss's third. Or take down the gold rocks at on shattered. In regards to being behind if they don't do damage its not really true at all, this build takes advantage of a kind of powering, because the reapers are cheap and take along time to build you are barely spending money at your barracks. Because of the map control they give you, you invest that money into more barracks instead of units. Because of the reapers you get your racks up faster than you would normally and by the time the protoss can gather enough units to push you should be in full production.


Im not sure this build works in 1.4 at all but I will give it a try! its better then doing some random all in that i usually do in TvP atm


Because of more recent patch changes and just experimenting around more i haven't been using this build as much lately, i will try it out again and see if i cant get some current replay's up soon. Because of the ghost nerf it obviously isn't quite as strong anymore but i still believe its viable. It doesn't transition the best into fast starport play because the early gas spent on reapers delays it quite a bit. On the other hand protoss's are seem to be leaning more towards fast citadel/ Templar tech to complement the cheaper upgrades from the recent patch, and seem to be skipping colossus more. Which is a style of play which this build is quite strong against.
Screaming for vengance
Micromancer
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada116 Posts
January 30 2012 22:02 GMT
#48
Ok current patch replays now out!
Screaming for vengance
GeinRH
Profile Joined October 2011
United States2 Posts
February 01 2012 03:09 GMT
#49
Hey Micromancer,

I'm happy to find another that utilizes the reaper. I was curious if you have found a reaper opening that works vs zerg or terran? Or do you find the reaper to be not as strong of an opener in those matchups?

Thanks
Micromancer
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada116 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-02 08:14:56
February 02 2012 08:11 GMT
#50
Hey Micromancer,

I'm happy to find another that utilizes the reaper. I was curious if you have found a reaper opening that works vs zerg or terran? Or do you find the reaper to be not as strong of an opener in those matchups?

Thanks


Hey there, I actually love opening reaper in TvZ as well, I find it functions alot like the hellion expand, in that you can kill alot of lings, maybe a drone here or there, deny creep and a fast third as well as getting a really good scout. The reapers map control doesn't last as long but i open 2 reapers which is quite a bit cheaper than a factory + hellions so you get to expand much quicker. I like to open with a marine and kinda fake bunker pressure to force some lings early on which the reapers can kill quite well. Plus if by some fluke the bunker finishes reapers can kill lings , spines and hatcheries very quickly so you are going to do alot of damage.

Here is a replay

[image loading]

I know there are some nifty reaper/ hellion/ medivac builds out there for TvT however i've felt that reapers take so long to build that they cut into your marine count enough that to deal with banshees you also need to go for a fast starport. I am a big fan of early expanding so i usually avoid making more than one reaper in TvT.
Screaming for vengance
GeinRH
Profile Joined October 2011
United States2 Posts
February 02 2012 21:05 GMT
#51
Thanks

That helps alot
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