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jabberjaw
225 Posts
Don't listen to him. The correct response to ultras is always tanks. Hm. I wouldn't say that. Tanks is one response to ultras, although in my experience you need quite a few of them and some buffer between the ultras and the tanks. Marauders, thors, and even banshees I have seen at the pro level are all acceptable responses to ultras. | ||
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netherDrake
Singapore1831 Posts
http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1360 First of all my control is terrible, I just can't seem to do all the necessary kiting/splitting and storm dodging and also microing my vikings/ghosts at the same time. I also find it very hard to punish toss when he's out of position, perhaps I could have tried to drop the third and nat more but I'm unable to capitalize on his positioning with my drop play. I rarely win unless I manage to get a lucky engagement or a good drop off. Anyone can help with this? My macro/upgrades also weren't perfect that game, but I was hold a position next to his watchtower and was afraid to get caught out by toss (which I still did). | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 16 2012 11:41 dynwar7 wrote: Ok I will summarize my question. What is the way to go in TvT? Is it only pure bio, marine tank, or mech? Is there a new, fresh style that works nice? It's important to understand fully how each composition works, but the short answer is: Thorzain says "marine/tank is the safest set of units to make in TvT. It covers all strategies and doesn't have a glaring weak point". I personally always do marine/tank just because it's aggressive yet (with the right builds) will save you from most all-ins or cheesy plays. Bio in TvT is kind of like bio in TvZ...hard to pull off, constant multi-tasking. Mech is really slow and you have to play really deliberately with sensor towers, planetaries, etc...it's really hard to win a game quickly as mech. Marine/tank ends up being middle of the road, relies on positioning but flexible against counterattacks or drops. Other than that, you have sky terran...which is essentially a person who opens 2-port banshee and doesn't win or die to the counterswing lol. Hope that helps! | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 17 2012 05:29 Jaegeru wrote: Can anybody suggest a way of opening mech for TvT? I have no clue on how to open mech properly at all  The most common opening is banshee harass. You can even do reaper harass followed by banshee harass to secure a faster 2nd. You can also open with a 1rax expand into some kind of hellion/viking mix aided by banshee harass. You cannot open with only hellions though because they will get owned by any number of tanks or marauders before you have tanks up. So...overall, I'd say go with the banshee harass. If you have a chance, watch some of LastShadow's stream...he will typically do crazy stuff like triple CC with 3 marines and bunker and then straight into banshee/hellion harass. So...stick to the banshee harass  . | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 17 2012 12:00 netherDrake wrote: TvP woes. http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1360 First of all my control is terrible, I just can't seem to do all the necessary kiting/splitting and storm dodging and also microing my vikings/ghosts at the same time. I also find it very hard to punish toss when he's out of position, perhaps I could have tried to drop the third and nat more but I'm unable to capitalize on his positioning with my drop play. I rarely win unless I manage to get a lucky engagement or a good drop off. Anyone can help with this? My macro/upgrades also weren't perfect that game, but I was hold a position next to his watchtower and was afraid to get caught out by toss (which I still did). 1) Cloak - you NEED to get cloak for the ghosts. I don't think it's up anymore, but LastShadow made a blog talking about how to dismantle the protoss army. Basically, what was said was this: Step 1 - scan and kill off the observer Step 2 - let him come to you...keep your ghosts and vikings out front and medivacs in the back. Step 3 - Kill off any templars with snipe or EMP them if they're in a group, place ghosts in kind of a line formation in front Step 4 - Let the zealots all burn out they're charge on your MMM force...DO NOT SPLIT OR KITE UNTIL THEY BURN CHARGE Step 5 - Blanket everything in EMPs, particularly the zealots and archons, watch for any stray templars Step 6 - Shift-click the colossus with vikings (can also use ghosts to focus them down) Step 7 - Start kiting, split after ~70% of the zealots have been killed I know it's a lot, but if you do at least half of these steps, you'll come out WAAAAAY ahead. Terran should laugh at the protoss army when engaging correctly. I think the most important part is the EMPs though, so make sure you keep those ghosts alive more than anything and GET CLOAK. 2) Drops - a single drop in the main or 3rd while he's caught out of position will drastically change the game. It might be a good idea to set up a drop as soon as it seems he's heading out to meet you...just before the action engages, MAKE SURE you unload that drop in his base. Hope this helps!! Just hearing LS explain how to dismantle the late-game army changed my win percentage in the late game hardcore in the other direction. | ||
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HeroMystic
United States1217 Posts
On June 17 2012 13:08 SC2John wrote: 1) Cloak - you NEED to get cloak for the ghosts. I don't think it's up anymore, but LastShadow made a blog talking about how to dismantle the protoss army. Basically, what was said was this: Step 1 - scan and kill off the observer Step 2 - let him come to you...keep your ghosts and vikings out front and medivacs in the back. Step 3 - Kill off any templars with snipe or EMP them if they're in a group, place ghosts in kind of a line formation in front Step 4 - Let the zealots all burn out they're charge on your MMM force...DO NOT SPLIT OR KITE UNTIL THEY BURN CHARGE Step 5 - Blanket everything in EMPs, particularly the zealots and archons, watch for any stray templars Step 6 - Shift-click the colossus with vikings (can also use ghosts to focus them down) Step 7 - Start kiting, split after ~70% of the zealots have been killed I know it's a lot, but if you do at least half of these steps, you'll come out WAAAAAY ahead. Terran should laugh at the protoss army when engaging correctly. I think the most important part is the EMPs though, so make sure you keep those ghosts alive more than anything and GET CLOAK. 2) Drops - a single drop in the main or 3rd while he's caught out of position will drastically change the game. It might be a good idea to set up a drop as soon as it seems he's heading out to meet you...just before the action engages, MAKE SURE you unload that drop in his base. Hope this helps!! Just hearing LS explain how to dismantle the late-game army changed my win percentage in the late game hardcore in the other direction. Marauders in front of the Marines to tank damage helps a lot too. | ||
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Kamelixs
Sweden88 Posts
Edit: In TvZ offcourse | ||
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
In TvT, is hellion/tank/viking (and maybe add 1 or 2 banshees anda Raven) a good composition? I am so lost in TvT right now... -.- Just wondering if it is good, is there a guide to it? Thank you | ||
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OCWTO
Scotland5 Posts
On June 17 2012 20:52 Kamelixs wrote: What's the best way to transition into Mech after doing a Hellion - Banshee opener? When do I add gas 3 and 4, extra factorys etc? Edit: In TvZ offcourse Typically what I do is build my 3rd, take double gases then add additional factories and an armory incase of mutas. There's a good mech guide that covers your opening -> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=308972 | ||
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deeshoo
United States319 Posts
Diamond NA Terran | ||
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phiinix
United States1169 Posts
On June 18 2012 04:21 deeshoo wrote: Hi guys, off of three base and on in late game TvP (standard bio + viking ghost composition) just how much production am I capable of? I was previously going off 8rax (5 tech labs, 3 reactors) and 2 reactored ports, but I feel like that's not enough. Thoughts? Diamond NA Terran I think it depends on what you're building. I feel like (not 100%) that building something like 5 ghost 6 marines, and 4 vikings is more than you can sustain off of a 3 base econ. Even like 3 ghost, 2 marauder and 6 marines out of 8 rax is pushing it. If you're not building a ton of ghost, or not making use of your starports, I would add 2-4 rax. Usually if I've taken a 4th and I'm in the late game, I have about 10-12 rax, and I'm planning on a starport transition. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On June 18 2012 04:21 deeshoo wrote: Hi guys, off of three base and on in late game TvP (standard bio + viking ghost composition) just how much production am I capable of? I was previously going off 8rax (5 tech labs, 3 reactors) and 2 reactored ports, but I feel like that's not enough. Thoughts? Diamond NA Terran That's good, but you should probably reverse the amount of techlabs/reactors unless he's going Stalker/Colossus/Sentry. Marines are better than Marauders against Zealots. Although, feel free to add more production if you really feel like you need it. Also make more ghosts, they're really expensive, so they should keep your money much lower, and are crucial in late-game TvP. | ||
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deeshoo
United States319 Posts
On June 18 2012 04:51 Fencer710 wrote: That's good, but you should probably reverse the amount of techlabs/reactors unless he's going Stalker/Colossus/Sentry. Marines are better than Marauders against Zealots. Although, feel free to add more production if you really feel like you need it. Also make more ghosts, they're really expensive, so they should keep your money much lower, and are crucial in late-game TvP. Interesting point regarding their composition. Looking back should I expect archon/colossus/templar deathballs to be full of zealots given the extreme gas consumption and load up more on marines? I feel like the deathballs that I've seen have been mostly stalker templar colossus, but I guess that if I'm letting them get there I'm doing it wrong. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On June 17 2012 09:11 jabberjaw wrote: Hm. I wouldn't say that. Tanks is one response to ultras, although in my experience you need quite a few of them and some buffer between the ultras and the tanks. Marauders, thors, and even banshees I have seen at the pro level are all acceptable responses to ultras. I find that Marauders and Thors are the best response. Thors actually have HP and do more damage to Ultralisks, even though Siege Tanks have more range. Marauders also do a heck of a lot of DPS and they can kite the Ultralisks, as well as being able to be healed by Medivacs, and pick off Infestors in hit squads of 3-5. Banshees just don't do damage to Ultralisks since they have 6 armor, which cuts the Banshees' attack damage in half. They're also shut down by any amount of air units. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On June 18 2012 05:23 Fencer710 wrote: I find that Marauders and Thors are the best response. Thors actually have HP and do more damage to Ultralisks, even though Siege Tanks have more range. Marauders also do a heck of a lot of DPS and they can kite the Ultralisks, as well as being able to be healed by Medivacs, and pick off Infestors in hit squads of 3-5. Banshees just don't do damage to Ultralisks since they have 6 armor, which cuts the Banshees' attack damage in half. They're also shut down by any amount of air units. Seconded. Against ultra ling bling infestor I cut all tanks, and go marine heavy marauder thor blueflame hellion medic and have a more mobile, yet high DPS army. | ||
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
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RayOfTheVoid
Norway95 Posts
Any sort of help is appreciated. | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On June 18 2012 09:10 RayOfTheVoid wrote: How do i deal with muta ling baneling when i go bio? Should i transtion into marine-tank or marine-thor-hellion? I always get chrushed when my practice partner goes for mutas Any sort of help is appreciated.If a Zerg goes muta, ling, bane, at least one aspect of that unit comp. will be weak since the Zerg should not have the gas to adequately produce a lot of banes and mutas. If you pressured early and forced a lot of banes from the zerg, traded relatively evenly and delayed mutas while macroing at home and perhaps expanding, you can just keep pumping bio and making trades as you do all of these things (and attempt to deny zerg bases). This of course will slow the oncoming muta push and if zerg tries to go for a large amount of muta and you push in around the same time, they can just lose the game if you micro well, since they will not have enough gas for banes. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
On June 18 2012 10:32 s3rp wrote: What to you think about what QXC did in Dreamhack on Ohana in TvZ with early ebay-block into CC first ? Played around with it a bit on 2 player Maps with suprisingly decent results. I usually send out my SCV around the time i build my first supply so it arives before he can place his hatch. I've been blocking on every 2player map recently, and I think it is definitely worth it, but sometimes it can be hard because there are generally two Zerg reactions. One is "omg he blocked me time to all-in" and the other is "omg he blocked me I'll just take my 3rd and macro hard". Can be difficult to read correctly sometimes and you'll have some silly losses. | ||
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