|
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On June 09 2012 01:59 ZanTwilight wrote:
Hey guys, another question about weirdness :D I don't like playing traditionally in my matchups, and my tvz and tvp builds are working great. But, I can't find any tvt build that's anywhere close to the power of standard viking-tank-fodder marines. Originally I went bio with a few tanks, but then my win-the-game instinct kicked in and before I knew it I had tanks with a few bio units >.< My bio just gets crushed by tanks, except dropping. When I drop, I wreck most of their base and then they kill mine while I'm out of position. Ideas?
I don´t understand what you are asking. Their are a lot of possibilities for playing TvT. The most common is playing Marine,Tank,Medivac. Tank, Viking is oldschool and can be abused easily. That´s because Bio based Builds can abuse their Mobility Advantage to get ahead in Bases,Upgrades and whatever else aggainst this style. The most common Style i´m facing at Ladder is the 1 Rax fe into Marine-Medivac and then into Marine,Tank,Medivac. That´s also the Style i´m currently doing. But you can also play pure Bio or pure Mech. But every Style depends different execution. As long as you don´t clarify what exactly your Problems are, we cannot help you. Maybe you can give us an example of your Problems via a Replay.
|
how to react against 1-1-1 banshee harrass in tvt when im going 1 rax expo into 3 barracks??
i win pretty much every single macro game i play, but keep lossing to stupid 1 base shit...
|
On June 09 2012 03:26 Sianos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 01:59 ZanTwilight wrote:
Hey guys, another question about weirdness :D I don't like playing traditionally in my matchups, and my tvz and tvp builds are working great. But, I can't find any tvt build that's anywhere close to the power of standard viking-tank-fodder marines. Originally I went bio with a few tanks, but then my win-the-game instinct kicked in and before I knew it I had tanks with a few bio units >.< My bio just gets crushed by tanks, except dropping. When I drop, I wreck most of their base and then they kill mine while I'm out of position. Ideas? I don´t understand what you are asking. Their are a lot of possibilities for playing TvT. The most common is playing Marine,Tank,Medivac. Tank, Viking is oldschool and can be abused easily. That´s because Bio based Builds can abuse their Mobility Advantage to get ahead in Bases,Upgrades and whatever else aggainst this style. The most common Style i´m facing at Ladder is the 1 Rax fe into Marine-Medivac and then into Marine,Tank,Medivac. That´s also the Style i´m currently doing. But you can also play pure Bio or pure Mech. But every Style depends different execution. As long as you don´t clarify what exactly your Problems are, we cannot help you. Maybe you can give us an example of your Problems via a Replay.
I have no problem, per se. I want a jut less traditional TvT build, and all of the people I asked have said pure bio. However, pure bio doesn't really work for me because when I go for a frontal assault I get massacred by tanks (obviously) and when I do big drops they always base race me and win. So my question is, what is another non-standard way to play TvT OR what am I doing wrong with my bio?
|
On June 09 2012 03:29 XenOsky- wrote:
how to react against 1-1-1 banshee harrass in tvt when im going 1 rax expo into 3 barracks??
i win pretty much every single macro game i play, but keep lossing to stupid 1 base shit...
If he's going cloak the first banshee will get there at roughly 7:30 - 8. If you don't see expo by 6:00 minutes, assume one base play and throw down an engy bay and a factory. Scan him later to figure out exactly what he's doing, its worth the cost a mule. When I open 3 rax into double gas, i get a tech lab on the rax and start combat shields research asap, as a marine with shields will beat a marine without shields that is stimmed. Shields should be nearly done by the time a banshee comes to pester you too, so the banshees will 3-shot marines instead of 2-shot them when they have shields. Build missile turrets near the mineral line, make sure you don't lose many scv's and you're way ahead on infantry production and ugrades, and can pretty much roll him with bio, or marine tank medivac play.
Above all, make sure you're constantly making marines, as most players at your level won't be able to macro very well behind kiting a banshee against marines.
|
On June 09 2012 04:20 Pillage wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 03:29 XenOsky- wrote:
how to react against 1-1-1 banshee harrass in tvt when im going 1 rax expo into 3 barracks??
i win pretty much every single macro game i play, but keep lossing to stupid 1 base shit... If he's going cloak the first banshee will get there at roughly 7:30 - 8. If you don't see expo by 6:00 minutes, assume one base play and throw down an engy bay and a factory. Scan him later to figure out exactly what he's doing, its worth the cost a mule. When I open 3 rax into double gas, i get a tech lab on the rax and start combat shields research asap, as a marine with shields will beat a marine without shields that is stimmed. Shields should be nearly done by the time a banshee comes to pester you too, so the banshees will 3-shot marines instead of 2-shot them when they have shields. Build missile turrets near the mineral line, make sure you don't lose many scv's and you're way ahead on infantry production and ugrades, and can pretty much roll him with bio, or marine tank medivac play. Above all, make sure you're constantly making marines, as most players at your level won't be able to macro very well behind kiting a banshee against marines.
thanks for your answer, it will be really helpful in the future  .
is not that i can't macro well under pressure, the problem i had was that i didnt know the timings, i mean i played bw 8 years, and started sc2 like 4 or 5 days ago... my problem is that i don't really know the metagame and counters to certain strategies.
|
On June 09 2012 04:01 ZanTwilight wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 03:26 Sianos wrote:On June 09 2012 01:59 ZanTwilight wrote:
Hey guys, another question about weirdness :D I don't like playing traditionally in my matchups, and my tvz and tvp builds are working great. But, I can't find any tvt build that's anywhere close to the power of standard viking-tank-fodder marines. Originally I went bio with a few tanks, but then my win-the-game instinct kicked in and before I knew it I had tanks with a few bio units >.< My bio just gets crushed by tanks, except dropping. When I drop, I wreck most of their base and then they kill mine while I'm out of position. Ideas? I don´t understand what you are asking. Their are a lot of possibilities for playing TvT. The most common is playing Marine,Tank,Medivac. Tank, Viking is oldschool and can be abused easily. That´s because Bio based Builds can abuse their Mobility Advantage to get ahead in Bases,Upgrades and whatever else aggainst this style. The most common Style i´m facing at Ladder is the 1 Rax fe into Marine-Medivac and then into Marine,Tank,Medivac. That´s also the Style i´m currently doing. But you can also play pure Bio or pure Mech. But every Style depends different execution. As long as you don´t clarify what exactly your Problems are, we cannot help you. Maybe you can give us an example of your Problems via a Replay. I have no problem, per se. I want a jut less traditional TvT build, and all of the people I asked have said pure bio. However, pure bio doesn't really work for me because when I go for a frontal assault I get massacred by tanks (obviously) and when I do big drops they always base race me and win. So my question is, what is another non-standard way to play TvT OR what am I doing wrong with my bio?
Playing Bio (MMM) against Marine/Tank doesn't really work in head-on fights because instead of Marauders he'll use tanks and build just as many maybe even more Marinen than you and Marauders well just suck in this situation . What might work against Marine Tanks is overwhelming numbers of pure Marines well spread and try to get ahead in upgrades by at least 1 set when you engage. You have to win before he reaches 3-3 though or add tanks yourself. Marauders are just dead weight against Marine Tank.
|
just a quick question: in tvt does the type of map dictate on what build you use in that match? I don't know if people use the same build regardless of map or they change their style around due to the map.
|
|
|
On June 09 2012 09:06 Blackknight232 wrote:
just a quick question: in tvt does the type of map dictate on what build you use in that match? I don't know if people use the same build regardless of map or they change their style around due to the map.
The bigger and more open the map is, the better it is for marine/tank, as opposed to mech. And as was mentioned, if the 3rd is easy to defend it's great for mech play.
But of course both styles work regardless of map.
|
I'll make this a new post so it's less confusing:
Can anyone give details of Polt's build vs Stephano from MLG (hellion/marauder timing)? I'd prefer it with a 1rax FE instead of 15CC, but either way is fine. I've given up all hope of macro TvZ so I'll just do what he does + pull all my SCVs until Blizzard fixes the matchup.
Also, doesn't that build autolose to mutalisks? Or should we assume that no sane Zerg will go mutalisks these days?
|
On June 09 2012 10:18 Starshaped wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 09:06 Blackknight232 wrote:
just a quick question: in tvt does the type of map dictate on what build you use in that match? I don't know if people use the same build regardless of map or they change their style around due to the map. The bigger and more open the map is, the better it is for marine/tank, as opposed to mech. And as was mentioned, if the 3rd is easy to defend it's great for mech play. But of course both styles work regardless of map.
Eh yes some maps sway marine/tank or mech, or bio more into their favor, but the general flow and ebb of TvT is always very, very similar.
Mech > marine tank > bio > mech
But certain maps of course sway that. Mech on cloud, or daybreak is fucking impossible to stop. Mech on TDA , and other large maps lets bio or even marine tank run rampant and beat what they shouldn't.
|
|
|
On June 09 2012 12:56 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 10:18 Starshaped wrote:On June 09 2012 09:06 Blackknight232 wrote:
just a quick question: in tvt does the type of map dictate on what build you use in that match? I don't know if people use the same build regardless of map or they change their style around due to the map. The bigger and more open the map is, the better it is for marine/tank, as opposed to mech. And as was mentioned, if the 3rd is easy to defend it's great for mech play. But of course both styles work regardless of map. Eh yes some maps sway marine/tank or mech, or bio more into their favor, but the general flow and ebb of TvT is always very, very similar. Mech > marine tank > bio > mech But certain maps of course sway that. Mech on cloud, or daybreak is fucking impossible to stop. Mech on TDA , and other large maps lets bio or even marine tank run rampant and beat what they shouldn't.
Bio doesn't beat anything, lol. It's gimmicky and super easy to play, which is what I guess attracts so many people into doing it, but it relies on your opponent to fuck up royally or for you to do coinflip doomdrops or baseraces or greedy BC-transitions, all of which get shut down if your opponent is playing well (sans the baserace).
I'd much rather face bio as mech than I would face biomech, and I go mech almost every single TvT.
Idunno, maybe it's just me, but bio just feels terrible in modern TvT and I never recommend it to anyone. Like I said, it relies on your opponent to make big mistakes. I think it becomes less effective the higher the skill of the players is.
It's nice to throw it in the mix during a Bo3 or whatever, it's nice to know how to play it, but it isn't something I'd ever practice on the ladder as a solid way of playing. Maybe other people feel differently.
|
On June 09 2012 13:14 monkybone wrote:
Bio as a composition is a reaction to mech after going for marine tank originally. It doesn't make any sense to go pure bio except as a reaction to mech.
It's quite common. You don't need to rush to tanks, as you can poke holes with bio for a very good amount of time. You can delay tanks until the time around you take a third, and drop 2 more factories, and go quick swell of tanks from 3 factories. Map reliant, you have to be able to spot it and keep kiting them back to your base and flank and box bounce your life away.
A lot of people open thorzain bio, or the CC first 2 rax 2 gas 3rd rax fast 2 medic stim cs +1/+1 all bio openings, even when not facing mech.
On June 09 2012 13:18 Starshaped wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:56 iAmJeffReY wrote:On June 09 2012 10:18 Starshaped wrote:On June 09 2012 09:06 Blackknight232 wrote:
just a quick question: in tvt does the type of map dictate on what build you use in that match? I don't know if people use the same build regardless of map or they change their style around due to the map. The bigger and more open the map is, the better it is for marine/tank, as opposed to mech. And as was mentioned, if the 3rd is easy to defend it's great for mech play. But of course both styles work regardless of map. Eh yes some maps sway marine/tank or mech, or bio more into their favor, but the general flow and ebb of TvT is always very, very similar. Mech > marine tank > bio > mech But certain maps of course sway that. Mech on cloud, or daybreak is fucking impossible to stop. Mech on TDA , and other large maps lets bio or even marine tank run rampant and beat what they shouldn't. Bio doesn't beat anything, lol. It's gimmicky and super easy to play, which is what I guess attracts so many people into doing it, but it relies on your opponent to fuck up royally or for you to do coinflip doomdrops or baseraces or greedy BC-transitions, all of which get shut down if your opponent is playing well (sans the baserace). I'd much rather face bio as mech than I would face biomech, and I go mech almost every single TvT. Idunno, maybe it's just me, but bio just feels terrible in modern TvT and I never recommend it to anyone. Like I said, it relies on your opponent to make big mistakes. I think it becomes less effective the higher the skill of the players is. It's nice to throw it in the mix during a Bo3 or whatever, it's nice to know how to play it, but it isn't something I'd ever practice on the ladder as a solid way of playing. Maybe other people feel differently.
To each his own. I never mech, and almost always bio a mech player down. More often than not, I do well against mech just because I am aggressive and constant early-mid game to try and force mistakes. Slow mech on some maps is unbeatable, unless you have a massssssive counter tank line, very true. I wouldn't say bio is gimmicky, bio is a great way to get ahead in base, and throw the mech player on the defensive for drops and stim attacks etc, and it isn't much to transition into tank heavy play of your own. I've seen, and done it lately as well, bio into marauder tank with light marine numbers against mech players on semi open maps (entombed, antiga.
Now, on cloud kingdom, there's like no chance you're beating a good mech player once he hits 3 bases. You have to force mistakes. I personally don't play much all bio lately either, as I'm just churning bio mech all day with aggressive pushes, but I still do go into bio any time I see a full mech player, once I get that 'sign'.
Sadly enough, I'm so slow sometimes, it's a damn floating factory that's the 'sign' lol
|
|
|
hey guys im a high plat here hitting a wall against diamond protoss players. I've been pretty much opening up with Bomber's gasless FE into 5 rax mid-game aggression openings for my TvP and most plat protoss I can destroy with this opening. But a lot of the diamond players are able to macro much better than their plat counterparts and usually I end up fighting vs some 2 or 3 high templars or 2 colossus which I am not quite prepared for. I do push out at around 10:15-10:30, but I don't engage until I have about 115-130 supply roughly.
so once I obtain the ghosts or vikings, I've been having trouble microing the battles. So I've been following the advice of sending the ghosts to the front of the army and vikings abusing the ramps/part of maps that's unreachable by stalkers but when I actually execute, a lot of it goes bad and I end up losing terribly.
I was wondering if I can get some advice on this. I can post some replays if needed Thanks guys
|
What's a solid way to open TvZ now? I just switched to Terran a couple weeks ago and have been doing reactor hellion 3 CC build but high level pros are saying it's not viable now with the queen buff. I can get it to work in plat but no one ever allins me (or does it well at least). I don't want to do allins, because i want to improve my mechanics by playing macro games first.
|
On June 09 2012 13:18 Starshaped wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 12:56 iAmJeffReY wrote:On June 09 2012 10:18 Starshaped wrote:On June 09 2012 09:06 Blackknight232 wrote:
just a quick question: in tvt does the type of map dictate on what build you use in that match? I don't know if people use the same build regardless of map or they change their style around due to the map. The bigger and more open the map is, the better it is for marine/tank, as opposed to mech. And as was mentioned, if the 3rd is easy to defend it's great for mech play. But of course both styles work regardless of map. Eh yes some maps sway marine/tank or mech, or bio more into their favor, but the general flow and ebb of TvT is always very, very similar. Mech > marine tank > bio > mech But certain maps of course sway that. Mech on cloud, or daybreak is fucking impossible to stop. Mech on TDA , and other large maps lets bio or even marine tank run rampant and beat what they shouldn't. Bio doesn't beat anything, lol. It's gimmicky and super easy to play, which is what I guess attracts so many people into doing it, but it relies on your opponent to fuck up royally or for you to do coinflip doomdrops or baseraces or greedy BC-transitions, all of which get shut down if your opponent is playing well (sans the baserace). I'd much rather face bio as mech than I would face biomech, and I go mech almost every single TvT. Idunno, maybe it's just me, but bio just feels terrible in modern TvT and I never recommend it to anyone. Like I said, it relies on your opponent to make big mistakes. I think it becomes less effective the higher the skill of the players is. It's nice to throw it in the mix during a Bo3 or whatever, it's nice to know how to play it, but it isn't something I'd ever practice on the ladder as a solid way of playing. Maybe other people feel differently.
No its map dependant. on TA its plain great, on daybreak its okish, on entombed vertical its ten times worse. also all good bio players will transition out of it in some way, ghosts , sudden mass tanks at 20 minutes or so with vikings, mass air. key is transition in tech + mass orbital if it remains a macro game but its mostly about gaining time with ur army with as much tactical play as possible and make the correct decisions with ur tech according to how the game is going
Also ive no clue how one is supposed to beat Kas with mech seriously this guy gets 5 bases, more bio than anyone bcs and vikings in 20 minutes it feels impossible to beat, only way i guess is turtle with turret while build viking count/mass ravens and expand constantly with hellion harass, theres literraly no timing available where hes weak, he still produces a ton of bio and is so active on the map while transitionning.. thats how i feel playing vs him and ive never seen him lose vs mech(unless he loses 30 scvs in first 10min) in macro game minus one time out of idk many, vs puma on shakura of all maps...
|
What decisions should i make in a base trade scenario with Mech against all three races?
|
On June 09 2012 23:33 saaaa wrote:
What decisions should i make in a base trade scenario with Mech against all three races?
Always keep your army together and lift all your buildings and get as many buildings as possible to your army.
Most likely you will have the superior army that he can't engage.
You just have to try to kill all his buildings before he killed you (thats why you have to get as many buildings too your army as possible).
Maybe you're able to set up a new base but if you have the superior army you should try to kill him before he can get up a new base, because you probably need longer to until you can build anything.
If your opponent has a lot of bases you can try to kill the worker at this bases with hellions to stop him from harvesting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
