EPTThe Terran Help Me Thread - Page 23
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
In the meanwhile an AI game: http://drop.sc/33299 http://drop.sc/33300 EDIT: I played a random game. Here's the replay. I sucked. http://drop.sc/33318 | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
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JonB
Sweden325 Posts
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
On September 10 2011 08:46 Blazinghand wrote: Okay I'm gonna grab a bite to eat then take a look at your random game. Any particular thoughts / stuff you want me to look at? Also, what was your game plan going in, and what was the build order you were trying to execute? I'd like to know beforehand what was going through your head at the various points in the game, and what YOU think went wrong, so I know what to cover and what you already have covered. I'd like to know everything that was wrong with my game. Build order, multitasking, scouting, appropriate units, macro, micro, tactical considerations. Last game: Build order was 2Rax 3Bunkers FE. I think it went okay, nothing to be proud of. Bunkers came up late, I started my gasses too early, I didn't transform my 2nd CC to an OC before moving it. I then randomly dropped a factory and a starport and what not. I didn't have a clear plan of what to attack with. But as you can see I was going to try a marine/tank/medivac strategy. I didn't bother checking the time of the updates to make them collide with a push. I didn't scout well enough, I didn't see the lair on time, I didn't scout for the infestors that raped me. I didn't send a scouting marine to the front-line. I didn't try a drop harass from the other side for scouting and tactical advances. What went okay: I held the bunker defense reasonably well. I had to rebuild one and salvage one to make an exit for my army. It was a complete chaos .. EDIT: Day9 says you have to focus on 1 thing at a time to progress with. So aside from the build order in general (which will get more efficient as I play and understand it and it's timings better), what is the aspect I have to focus on most next game? So I know I have to make it more crips, but if you see something wrong in the sequence of building, I'd like to know =) | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
Here's a summary in written format: You executed the build order appropriately well for your skill level-- you got 3 bunkers, 2 rax, and made more production facilities. I go over some specifics about your turrets, lack of reactors, number of rax, engi bay and stim timing in the attached VoD, but basically you're solid, despite some roughness around the edges with the BO. The problem came when the "mid-game" began, and the build order was over. and you had trouble handling the micro-intensive marine/tank/medivac attack, and your macro began to slip heavily as well. Here are my notes on marine/tank/medivac TvZ midgame from watching your replay: Marine-Tank pushes Marines and Tanks together kill everything. Marines are good against every unit except banelings and infestors. Tanks eat banelings and infestors *if they are sieged up* *and if they focus fire* Marines eat the mutalisk, which is what's good against tanks. You need siege and stim. your enemy is creep, on creep banelings and zerglings can get close very quickly. Use scans to clear out creep so he can't see when you unsiege. Always have half (or 5ish, whichever is lower) of your tanks sieged up unless you're 100% sure he has no infestors or banelings The only time you can unsiege everything is off of creep. Never let there be a creep tumor BEHIND you. Expo a lot, use planetaries and missile turrets to defend. The important upgrade for tanks besides siege is +1 attack. With +1 attack, tanks 1-shot zerglings regardless of zergling armor (tanks 1-shot banelings to begin with) You need a lot of barracks. >>>>BROOD LORD --> vikings >>>>>Infestors ---> split-up vikings (ghosts could work too) | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
On September 10 2011 11:06 Blazinghand wrote: Looked over your replay, and I think this build order has helped you a lot. Here's the coaching VoD: http://www.twitch.tv/blazinghand/b/294684096 Here's a summary in written format: You executed the build order appropriately well for your skill level-- you got 3 bunkers, 2 rax, and made more production facilities. I go over some specifics about your turrets, lack of reactors, number of rax, engi bay and stim timing in the attached VoD, but basically you're solid, despite some roughness around the edges with the BO. The problem came when the "mid-game" began, and the build order was over. and you had trouble handling the micro-intensive marine/tank/medivac attack, and your macro began to slip heavily as well. Here are my notes on marine/tank/medivac TvZ midgame from watching your replay: Marine-Tank pushes Marines and Tanks together kill everything. Marines are good against every unit except banelings and infestors. Tanks eat banelings and infestors *if they are sieged up* *and if they focus fire* Marines eat the mutalisk, which is what's good against tanks. You need siege and stim. your enemy is creep, on creep banelings and zerglings can get close very quickly. Use scans to clear out creep so he can't see when you unsiege. Always have half (or 5ish, whichever is lower) of your tanks sieged up unless you're 100% sure he has no infestors or banelings The only time you can unsiege everything is off of creep. Never let there be a creep tumor BEHIND you. Expo a lot, use planetaries and missile turrets to defend. The important upgrade for tanks besides siege is +1 attack. With +1 attack, tanks 1-shot zerglings regardless of zergling armor (tanks 1-shot banelings to begin with) You need a lot of barracks. >>>>BROOD LORD --> vikings >>>>>Infestors ---> split-up vikings (ghosts could work too) Thanks so much for the coaching video's! It's give me more confidence, I always thought of this build as a feeble one, but seeing the feedback I hope it gives me strength in my plays. I'll try and be more aggressive with my army, all the while keeping up my macro. My first step will be: Banking EVERY LAST mineral. This way, even if I make mistakes microing, hopefully I'll have tons of marines popping out of the Raxes. If that goes rather well, next step is upgrade timings. As you said, second EB + Armory when first EB is on 1/3 of the shield upgrade. What do you think is a good stimpack timing? When should I throw on reactors on my Raxes? It's so standard, but it's not in the build. I guess I have an idea. The moment I finish my bunkers 1 factory and 1-2 raxes should go up. When they finish I can throw on a techlab and a reactor. Then last but not least I guess I should work on my micro. Splitting up marines, splitting up tanks and progressing slowly. I won't leave the latter steps when focusing on the first, but I won't beat up myself about it just yet. How do you think that is for short term goals? My aim: I'm bronze rank 1-2 when I play, my goal is to be in the top 8! I expect to lose on the ladder a lot with this new build, but I realize this build is better in the long run. So after my fall back, I want to climb into the top 8. Next goal is 1, and after that is silver (I'll need a breakthrough in development for that though). | ||
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fabioisonfire
United States81 Posts
I've been playing 3v3 and FFA just to get the hang of things, I haven't been following build orders, I've mostly just been working on my Terran mechanics, unit composition, responses, micro, etc. I'm planning on taking my skills to the ladder eventually, hopefully later in the month. I've got a few questions off the top of my head and I would really appreciate if they could be answered, thanks. 1: Is it acceptable for me to adapt a 'style' as Terran (I've taken a liking to Ghosts) or should I be playing like I would Zerg (playing purely on response instead of using my go-to style)? 2: Exactly how expendable are my SCVs? I'm never sure if it would be a good/bad decision for me to pull SCVs to repair or act as cannon fodder, based on the push I'm executing, my current SCV count, and how much energy I have in my Orbital Command. As Zerg I'm so used to my Drones being precious, so I'm not sure how to treat SCVs. 3: How do I play TvT? This is the only matchup I'm stumped on. I've had success with early Reaper harass early game, and mid to late game I've tried both mass Marine/Medivac and pure mech play. Something that I don't understand about the matchup is it seems a lot of TvTs turn into massive Viking battles. What is the point of getting Vikings? Are they used initially for Siege Tank spotting, and then evolves into an air battle? 4: When do you take a third, in all match-ups? Is there a timing (for example, for Zergs it's usually around 10:00) or is it based off of feel? 5: What is an appropriate ratio for Medivacs? How many should I be getting based off of the current amount of bio I have? 6: What is a rough number of production facilities one can uphold on one base? Thanks so much! | ||
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An-Epic-Sanji
Sweden62 Posts
On September 10 2011 19:17 fabioisonfire wrote: Hello, I'm a Diamond/Masters (depends on the month, haha) Zerg player and I am making the transition to play Terran. I made the decision to switch based off of my own playstyle--I play with a Terran mindset and I'm a big fan of aggressive play and harassment and I feel that Terran will cater to that playstyle. I've been playing 3v3 and FFA just to get the hang of things, I haven't been following build orders, I've mostly just been working on my Terran mechanics, unit composition, responses, micro, etc. I'm planning on taking my skills to the ladder eventually, hopefully later in the month. I've got a few questions off the top of my head and I would really appreciate if they could be answered, thanks. 1: Is it acceptable for me to adapt a 'style' as Terran (I've taken a liking to Ghosts) or should I be playing like I would Zerg (playing purely on response instead of using my go-to style)? 2: Exactly how expendable are my SCVs? I'm never sure if it would be a good/bad decision for me to pull SCVs to repair or act as cannon fodder, based on the push I'm executing, my current SCV count, and how much energy I have in my Orbital Command. As Zerg I'm so used to my Drones being precious, so I'm not sure how to treat SCVs. 3: How do I play TvT? This is the only matchup I'm stumped on. I've had success with early Reaper harass early game, and mid to late game I've tried both mass Marine/Medivac and pure mech play. Something that I don't understand about the matchup is it seems a lot of TvTs turn into massive Viking battles. What is the point of getting Vikings? Are they used initially for Siege Tank spotting, and then evolves into an air battle? 4: When do you take a third, in all match-ups? Is there a timing (for example, for Zergs it's usually around 10:00) or is it based off of feel? 5: What is an appropriate ratio for Medivacs? How many should I be getting based off of the current amount of bio I have? 6: What is a rough number of production facilities one can uphold on one base? Thanks so much! 1. TvZ = Dont need to react for anything except broodlord/ultra TvP = React to collo or hts TvT = React to bcs... <---- this is why ppl want viking supperiority 2. Well.. workers are ofc extremely important... ul have to learn urself in which situations its necesarry to pull a few of them. 3. Try more mech play. And about the vikings.. ye... its good to have supperiority since u can go either bcs or banshees and wreck his ground army. 4. Differs... 5. Ratio of medivacs.. lol i dunno... I can tell u ur going overkill if u have 20.. no matter the ground army... 20 medivacs would be kinda supply waste. 6. It will increase with the number of scvs i u get.... but i know you can support 2 barracks (1 tech lab 1 reactor), 1 factory, 1 starport | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On September 10 2011 19:17 fabioisonfire wrote: 1: Is it acceptable for me to adapt a 'style' as Terran (I've taken a liking to Ghosts) or should I be playing like I would Zerg (playing purely on response instead of using my go-to style)? It's a mix of the two, and it's matchup-specific, and it depends on the style. Given that you like ghosts: In TvP, you're going to be fine, but if your opponent starts going for colossi, you'll need to make marauders and vikings. In TvZ, ghosts are solid against everything Zerg has, assuming sufficient micro. Backing up a bioball with medivacs or a more marine/tank composition they are good. Just make sure to land your emps on infestors and use snipe well against mutalisks, roaches, and hive tech units when necessary. 2: Exactly how expendable are my SCVs? I'm never sure if it would be a good/bad decision for me to pull SCVs to repair or act as cannon fodder, based on the push I'm executing, my current SCV count, and how much energy I have in my Orbital Command. As Zerg I'm so used to my Drones being precious, so I'm not sure how to treat SCVs. It really depends. If neither of you are all-in, try not to pull scvs except to repair stuff. If he OR you are all-in, pulling scvs is fine because whoever wins the next fight wins the game. 3: How do I play TvT? This is the only matchup I'm stumped on. I've had success with early Reaper harass early game, and mid to late game I've tried both mass Marine/Medivac and pure mech play. A common standard is marine/tank/viking, and make marauders instead of marines if he's going for hellions. Something that I don't understand about the matchup is it seems a lot of TvTs turn into massive Viking battles. What is the point of getting Vikings? Are they used initially for Siege Tank spotting, and then evolves into an air battle? the Viking fight has two purposes, but especially in mech vs mech, the viking fight is a battle for the right to make a banshee and kill all your opponent's tanks. In the late-game, the viking fight is a fight over implied battlecruisers (since you'll have thors, banshees won't be a threat any more). 4: When do you take a third, in all match-ups? Is there a timing (for example, for Zergs it's usually around 10:00) or is it based off of feel? Against Zerg, you take a third once you start pressuring him with your tanks and marines. Against Terran, you expo whenever you have the map presence to do so. Against Protoss, you take your third once you have your medivacs out; you use drops and medivacs for map control. 5: What is an appropriate ratio for Medivacs? How many should I be getting based off of the current amount of bio I have? You want enough medivacs that, if you wanted to you could almost execute a doom drop by loading all your bio in, but not quite. I find that 1 medivac per about 10-12 food of bioball is appropriate 6: What is a rough number of production facilities one can uphold on one base? You can support about 3 addonned facilities per base in terms of minerals, with the exception being reactor factories which dump minerals very very quickly. | ||
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cojosc2
United States87 Posts
http://drop.sc/33662 I usually try to do a 2 rax expand with reactor. In this game I did some horrible engagements, but held off the first void/gateway push kind of well. These are the notes I took on this game miss clicked on scan fed units after the first push bad engagement @13:17 my drop did jack shit http://drop.sc/33662 In TvT I do a 1/1/1 that I stole from IMMVP. I went to GM on KR server and looked at match history. Its not from a tournament. I think in this game I had a huge lead throughout most of it but then screwed it over when I let the nuke hit me and let the drops happen. I need to be more aggressive. Terrans like to turtle and I let him do just that. Here’s my notes on this one: Need to scout around 5:30ish Gave up on the drop that could’ve done some huge damage Needed to do damage with drop/banshee/anything Can’t let opponent macro At the 26:00 mark I think I could’ve one the game but instead I let the nuke hit me http://drop.sc/33663 The opening is something I saw SlayerS_Dragon do against a plat when laddering on his EU account. He started with a 12/14 rax bunker harass then expo double gas 4 fact hellion marine push. He won after that point but I usually try to transition into marine hellion thors because I like thors. I play a lot more aggressively against zerg than I have in the past but TvZ seems to be really hard for all of us low level players. Heres my notes from this game: Failed the bunker rush but forced a lot of lings. So maybe its kind of a victory for me At 12:12ish I did some good damage but I should’ve retreated back to my base. Just did some pressure and retreated At 17:50 I engaged on creep…. ‘nuff said I didn’t get enough info throughout the game Should’ve taken out creep tumors These are my notes on these 3 games, any help is awesome. Tell me if you agree disagree, anything. Advice is advice and I love it. Thanks everyone! | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
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thoradycus
Malaysia3262 Posts
Also,when i FE, what do I do if the protoss is containing me in my main base with sentries after i deflected an allin with bunkers? | ||
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deeshoo
United States319 Posts
On September 11 2011 00:28 KenDM wrote: Short question: what to do if you can't wall of the natural? A lot of maps give me this problem. you dont necessarily need to wall off the natural, but if you really want, just make a great wall of supply depots. yes, this applies even on xel'naga caverns and metalopolis  | ||
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deeshoo
United States319 Posts
On September 11 2011 04:11 thoradycus wrote: In TvP, at approx what minute/timing do we build double gas and after that factory/port/ghost academy? I am having trouble making my bio build in TvP smooth and efficient and i believe a very huge problem in my TvP atm.(0% winrate nowadays lol ><)(high masters) This is when i 1 rax gaslesss FE btw. furthermore, do I get 3 rax or 4rax? Also,when i FE, what do I do if the protoss is containing me in my main base with sentries after i deflected an allin with bunkers? My understanding of the 1rax gasless expand is the following: rax cc rax rax gas gas and then depending on what you prefer, tech lab with your first 25 gas, or wait for the factory, followed by a reactor and a starport. as for getting contained, either elevator drop on another side of your base and go for a flank, or just drop him | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On September 10 2011 21:21 cojosc2 wrote: Hi, I’m a plat level terran and lately when I ladder I’ll go on a winning streak and start playing diamond league people. + Show Spoiler + When that happens I start losing again. I feel like I’m forever plat. I’ve uploaded a few replays, one for each race. I’ll explain my builds and goals. I would like advice that isn’t specific to the games, stuff that will help me out in future games. Like macro and mechanic help, but I am plat so anything will be helpful [url blocked] tvp I usually try to do a 2 rax expand with reactor. In this game I did some horrible engagements, but held off the first void/gateway push kind of well. These are the notes I took on this game miss clicked on scan fed units after the first push bad engagement @13:17 my drop did jack shit [url blocked] TvT In TvT I do a 1/1/1 that I stole from IMMVP. I went to GM on KR server and looked at match history. Its not from a tournament. I think in this game I had a huge lead throughout most of it but then screwed it over when I let the nuke hit me and let the drops happen. I need to be more aggressive. Terrans like to turtle and I let him do just that. Here’s my notes on this one: Need to scout around 5:30ish Gave up on the drop that could’ve done some huge damage Needed to do damage with drop/banshee/anything Can’t let opponent macro At the 26:00 mark I think I could’ve one the game but instead I let the nuke hit me [url blocked] TvZ The opening is something I saw SlayerS_Dragon do against a plat when laddering on his EU account. He started with a 12/14 rax bunker harass then expo double gas 4 fact hellion marine push. He won after that point but I usually try to transition into marine hellion thors because I like thors. I play a lot more aggressively against zerg than I have in the past but TvZ seems to be really hard for all of us low level players. Heres my notes from this game: Failed the bunker rush but forced a lot of lings. So maybe its kind of a victory for me At 12:12ish I did some good damage but I should’ve retreated back to my base. Just did some pressure and retreated At 17:50 I engaged on creep…. ‘nuff said I didn’t get enough info throughout the game Should’ve taken out creep tumors These are my notes on these 3 games, any help is awesome. Tell me if you agree disagree, anything. Advice is advice and I love it. Thanks everyone! Could you upload these using a dedicated sc2 replay site, like Star2.org or drop.sc? interacting with megaupload is a huge pain  | ||
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cojosc2
United States87 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
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cojosc2
United States87 Posts
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