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On April 26 2012 22:05 Knockoutpill wrote:
After watching a lot of deMuslim I do 1 rax FE in both TvP and TvZ these days and it's working wonders. After the FE I take two gas and get another two rax and start working on stim/shields/CS and depending on the scouting I may get an ebay. Then after the three rax I'll tech up to medivac and see where it goes from there. It's really working great for me.
But it's not working at all in TvT. TvT used to be my best matchup but if I 1 rax FE in TvT I just get steamrolled. I have to revert back to the 111 and win the tank/viking war to be successful in TvT. And tank/viking battles take SO LONG! I can't be bothered to play a 30 minute game every time I run into another terran.
So what should I do in TvT? Sometimes I just 2 or 3 proxy rax cheese rush (one base all in) to get it over with but that's no fun.
I'm generally a macro player with not very high APM. I like MMM. I almost never get ghosts. I'm in silver. My SC2 time is 95% watching games and 5% actually playing so I think I'm quite knowledgeable but not very skilled if you know what I mean.
In TvT, gasless FE can work, but its hard and takes practice. Its about playing to delay. For me it typically means sacrifing a bunker while siege tech finishes and a viking pops out. The good thing is that if I hold, it leads to a big advantage and in a couple of minutes I can turn the tables on them, and set up a contain while building my 3rd.
As for TvT stalemates, I like nukes.
Another alternative is Thorzain's TvT, but that might be hard at silver.
Ultimately, though, you need to play more TvTs. I'm bad about watching/studying too, but trust me, a lot of learning TvT comes through ladder. Personally, learning TvT has been pretty rewarding and its one of my favorite match ups now.
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What is best way to deal with roach bling all ins? bunker up like hell? or? I often go 1 rax fe and rarely hellion expands
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On April 28 2012 06:08 Smackzilla wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 22:05 Knockoutpill wrote:
After watching a lot of deMuslim I do 1 rax FE in both TvP and TvZ these days and it's working wonders. After the FE I take two gas and get another two rax and start working on stim/shields/CS and depending on the scouting I may get an ebay. Then after the three rax I'll tech up to medivac and see where it goes from there. It's really working great for me.
But it's not working at all in TvT. TvT used to be my best matchup but if I 1 rax FE in TvT I just get steamrolled. I have to revert back to the 111 and win the tank/viking war to be successful in TvT. And tank/viking battles take SO LONG! I can't be bothered to play a 30 minute game every time I run into another terran.
So what should I do in TvT? Sometimes I just 2 or 3 proxy rax cheese rush (one base all in) to get it over with but that's no fun.
I'm generally a macro player with not very high APM. I like MMM. I almost never get ghosts. I'm in silver. My SC2 time is 95% watching games and 5% actually playing so I think I'm quite knowledgeable but not very skilled if you know what I mean. In TvT, gasless FE can work, but its hard and takes practice. Its about playing to delay. For me it typically means sacrifing a bunker while siege tech finishes and a viking pops out. The good thing is that if I hold, it leads to a big advantage and in a couple of minutes I can turn the tables on them, and set up a contain while building my 3rd. As for TvT stalemates, I like nukes. Another alternative is Thorzain's TvT, but that might be hard at silver. Ultimately, though, you need to play more TvTs. I'm bad about watching/studying too, but trust me, a lot of learning TvT comes through ladder. Personally, learning TvT has been pretty rewarding and its one of my favorite match ups now.
I'm actually using a Reaper FE into Bio at the moment in midmasters, and it works a LOT better than gasless 1Rax FE. You get gas earlier, so you can transition into a fast combatshield/+1 attack into stim/medivac timing, or into a 1-1-1 into tank/viking/marine. The gas you get and the two reapers work wonders with scouting and a little bit of early harassment and map control. Just don't lose the Reapers if you can.
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On April 28 2012 08:27 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 06:08 Smackzilla wrote:On April 26 2012 22:05 Knockoutpill wrote:
After watching a lot of deMuslim I do 1 rax FE in both TvP and TvZ these days and it's working wonders. After the FE I take two gas and get another two rax and start working on stim/shields/CS and depending on the scouting I may get an ebay. Then after the three rax I'll tech up to medivac and see where it goes from there. It's really working great for me.
But it's not working at all in TvT. TvT used to be my best matchup but if I 1 rax FE in TvT I just get steamrolled. I have to revert back to the 111 and win the tank/viking war to be successful in TvT. And tank/viking battles take SO LONG! I can't be bothered to play a 30 minute game every time I run into another terran.
So what should I do in TvT? Sometimes I just 2 or 3 proxy rax cheese rush (one base all in) to get it over with but that's no fun.
I'm generally a macro player with not very high APM. I like MMM. I almost never get ghosts. I'm in silver. My SC2 time is 95% watching games and 5% actually playing so I think I'm quite knowledgeable but not very skilled if you know what I mean. In TvT, gasless FE can work, but its hard and takes practice. Its about playing to delay. For me it typically means sacrifing a bunker while siege tech finishes and a viking pops out. The good thing is that if I hold, it leads to a big advantage and in a couple of minutes I can turn the tables on them, and set up a contain while building my 3rd. As for TvT stalemates, I like nukes. Another alternative is Thorzain's TvT, but that might be hard at silver. Ultimately, though, you need to play more TvTs. I'm bad about watching/studying too, but trust me, a lot of learning TvT comes through ladder. Personally, learning TvT has been pretty rewarding and its one of my favorite match ups now. I'm actually using a Reaper FE into Bio at the moment in midmasters, and it works a LOT better than gasless 1Rax FE. You get gas earlier, so you can transition into a fast combatshield/+1 attack into stim/medivac timing, or into a 1-1-1 into tank/viking/marine. The gas you get and the two reapers work wonders with scouting and a little bit of early harassment and map control. Just don't lose the Reapers if you can.
If gasless doesn't lose many units, it's ahead in econ. So theoryetically, if the same builds were ran post gasless vs reaper FE and reaper did standard or less damage of 1-3 scvs (random guess on my reaper FEs), the gasless will still be ahead in econ.
You, and I, feel you are ahead because of gas. You get stim earlier, and can do a stim/+1 timing, or go an early ebay, get +1, and shields, and pressure off 4rax, 3 naked and 1 gas opening off reaper FE (how I play rather). The pressure hits before most gasless have shields, or stim, as you went reaper -> FE -> rax rax rax ebay CS.
It's surprising how durable and strong that push is.
I play mostly bio vs mech, and marine tank vs marine tank, and marine tank vs bio. I can't do mech, so I don't mech vs marine tank. I don't do stalemate TvT's. I do constant attacks even if it makes me lose. I lose a rather substantial amount of games that I had won, or in the lead by trying to force my shit down their throat.
At your level, to be safe, I would do a marine-hellion elevator 1-1-1 off 1 gas, FE, then go 3 rax 1 fac 1 port marine tank medic. From there, take 2 more gas, and get 2 more rax 1 fac upon saturation, and reactor on starport.
That, or if you'd favor a longer 1-1-1 then FE, do marine-hellion elevator with 2 gas, 2nd after fac starts, into cloakbanshee -> FE -> marine tank banshee pressure.
To original OP.
TvT is a fun matchup once you learn if you're a defender, or an aggressor. Learn that, and any build can be made safe against anything with basic unit control, and usually a 6 minute ebay after the 6 minute scan if said scan scans cloakshees.
I'd say a very good style to learn is just marine tank medic. I was a completely bio player on NA, rarely doing marine tank. I did very well in my TvTs. Since grinding on KR, I'm back to being an FE -> 1-1-1, or delayed FE 1-1-1 over many other builds on certain maps. So many aggressive openings against my gasless FE or reaper FE just punished my greedy corner cutting, and early tanks are always a bitch to deal with playing bio (ie thorzain open)
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On April 28 2012 07:59 SKDN wrote:
What is best way to deal with roach bling all ins? bunker up like hell? or? I often go 1 rax fe and rarely hellion expands
Sort of varies on your followup after FE. If you double gas into hellion you can scout this sort of all in coming much better and can hopefully at least damage some of the lings before they're at your front. If just marines then start stim or combat shield as soon as possible; you can defend with either, what matters more is how many marines you have, how many bunkers, and how many units he has; and finally, how you use your SCVs. I lean toward combat shield because you have it significantly earlier.
General thing to do, wall off natural gradually with depots, and always have at least 1 bunker until you can be certain you're safe. Scout aggressively with SCVs (or hellions), if you know or suspect it's coming then build 2 more bunkers and have SCVs ready to repair them.
With your SCVs, you want to make sure your bunkers are kept alive as long as possible so repair them and prevent lings getting to them where possible by just having them in the way and using hold position. Don't be too afraid of losing some SCVs to protect your marines, but obviously try to prevent several banelings running into a clump of them.
Ultimately as long as you defend without losing like more than half your SCVs you're probably fine.
I have a replay against a guy who blindly roach ling all-ined me after scouting gas and then tried again with banelings. Kind of amusing game, but it shows a couple of these things
http://drop.sc/168213
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Would anyone mind helping me learn how to hold off a 3 gate robo bust in TvP, when you 1 rax gasless expand? I lose to them just about 100% of the time, even if I know they're coming a few minutes into the future.
Here's a replay: http://drop.sc/168256
In this game, he goes 3 gate with a proxy'd robo, which I scout immediately after it finishes. I immediately throw down a second bunker, and a third on the high ground above my natural choke (this is Cloud Kingdom.) I get the SCVs ready at my natural as well. He pokes in a few times and gets held off each time, but then he walks in and busts it easily with 3 immortals, 3 sentries, 2 zealots and a stalker.
I can't see much that I screwed up on. I get supply blocked on 46 for a bit, but honestly by that time I feel like the game's a foregone conclusion.
Should I have just bunkered up even more heavily? I'm not quite sure that even 5 bunkers would've been able to hold, based on the ease with which immortals break bunkers.
The Toss player was nice and we talked a bit during and after game, but he couldn't help me. When I asked for tips about how he loses when doing it, he says that he wins with it 95% of the time, lol. Later he says that I maybe could've pulled SCVs and marines and attacked the robo as soon as I saw it, but I'd be afraid that he could transition into a normal macro game and not be far behind at all.
Thanks for any advice!
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Currently in TvZ and TvP I 1rax double expand into 4 rax plus tech, and it has worked fine for me, and I have not had any bad build order losses yet. However, TvT is not the same, as my 1rax double expo is really weak to early tank pushes, which a lot of terrans do. What is a build that gets me 2 early expos but isn't as weak to really early tank pushes? Or I could also say: What is a terran build that gets enough units/tech out early to be able to hold an early tank push (obviously with lots of bunkers and stuff) that also gets me two early expos, with me getting a 3rd CC preferably before 10 minutes?
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On April 28 2012 13:20 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:
Currently in TvZ and TvP I 1rax double expand into 4 rax plus tech, and it has worked fine for me, and I have not had any bad build order losses yet. However, TvT is not the same, as my 1rax double expo is really weak to early tank pushes, which a lot of terrans do. What is a build that gets me 2 early expos but isn't as weak to really early tank pushes? Or I could also say: What is a terran build that gets enough units/tech out early to be able to hold an early tank push (obviously with lots of bunkers and stuff) that also gets me two early expos, with me getting a 3rd CC preferably before 10 minutes?
3 OC is greedy as fuck in TvT and will always be punished.
It is not viable.
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On April 28 2012 09:11 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 08:27 Fencer710 wrote:On April 28 2012 06:08 Smackzilla wrote:On April 26 2012 22:05 Knockoutpill wrote:
After watching a lot of deMuslim I do 1 rax FE in both TvP and TvZ these days and it's working wonders. After the FE I take two gas and get another two rax and start working on stim/shields/CS and depending on the scouting I may get an ebay. Then after the three rax I'll tech up to medivac and see where it goes from there. It's really working great for me.
But it's not working at all in TvT. TvT used to be my best matchup but if I 1 rax FE in TvT I just get steamrolled. I have to revert back to the 111 and win the tank/viking war to be successful in TvT. And tank/viking battles take SO LONG! I can't be bothered to play a 30 minute game every time I run into another terran.
So what should I do in TvT? Sometimes I just 2 or 3 proxy rax cheese rush (one base all in) to get it over with but that's no fun.
I'm generally a macro player with not very high APM. I like MMM. I almost never get ghosts. I'm in silver. My SC2 time is 95% watching games and 5% actually playing so I think I'm quite knowledgeable but not very skilled if you know what I mean. In TvT, gasless FE can work, but its hard and takes practice. Its about playing to delay. For me it typically means sacrifing a bunker while siege tech finishes and a viking pops out. The good thing is that if I hold, it leads to a big advantage and in a couple of minutes I can turn the tables on them, and set up a contain while building my 3rd. As for TvT stalemates, I like nukes. Another alternative is Thorzain's TvT, but that might be hard at silver. Ultimately, though, you need to play more TvTs. I'm bad about watching/studying too, but trust me, a lot of learning TvT comes through ladder. Personally, learning TvT has been pretty rewarding and its one of my favorite match ups now. I'm actually using a Reaper FE into Bio at the moment in midmasters, and it works a LOT better than gasless 1Rax FE. You get gas earlier, so you can transition into a fast combatshield/+1 attack into stim/medivac timing, or into a 1-1-1 into tank/viking/marine. The gas you get and the two reapers work wonders with scouting and a little bit of early harassment and map control. Just don't lose the Reapers if you can. If gasless doesn't lose many units, it's ahead in econ. So theoryetically, if the same builds were ran post gasless vs reaper FE and reaper did standard or less damage of 1-3 scvs (random guess on my reaper FEs), the gasless will still be ahead in econ. You, and I, feel you are ahead because of gas. You get stim earlier, and can do a stim/+1 timing, or go an early ebay, get +1, and shields, and pressure off 4rax, 3 naked and 1 gas opening off reaper FE (how I play rather). The pressure hits before most gasless have shields, or stim, as you went reaper -> FE -> rax rax rax ebay CS. It's surprising how durable and strong that push is.
I've actually been going into 3 barracks two reactor one techlab and adding marauders when needed, while teching up to Medivacs. I think I'll try this four barracks push against gasless plays, though. Though, I feel like the extra units against things like mirror reaper builds or 1-1-1's won't help me as much, but I'll be sure to switch if I feel like I'm being too greedy with my tech and don't have enough units.
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lategame tvp is sort of ... not fair? right?
I know it's not a helpful way to look at the game but I just need verification from other folks dealing with what I'm dealing with. masters level tvp where unless I win in like the first 15 blizzard minutes there is virtually no possibility of victory?
I storm dodge, I kite, I emp and I snipe and I can never actually do any damage to their base at that point. they just warp in chargelots and my army is damage from stim and storm etc. and I can't kill them and the next time we meet I have the same comp because I have no other options and they have more archons, more storms, and more colossus if they choose.
I like long games and it's the only matchup where I can repeatedly go into the long game with a lead, feel that I'm playing well, and eventually get steamrolled even on more bases with actual control (not required by the toss besides for storms)
what else is there?
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On April 28 2012 19:23 Vari wrote:
lategame tvp is sort of ... not fair? right?
I know it's not a helpful way to look at the game but I just need verification from other folks dealing with what I'm dealing with. masters level tvp where unless I win in like the first 15 blizzard minutes there is virtually no possibility of victory?
If he manages to get 3bases and storm + colossus you will most likely loose to an equally skilled opponent. At least that how I feel it.
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On April 28 2012 19:23 Vari wrote:
lategame tvp is sort of ... not fair? right?
I know it's not a helpful way to look at the game but I just need verification from other folks dealing with what I'm dealing with. masters level tvp where unless I win in like the first 15 blizzard minutes there is virtually no possibility of victory?
I storm dodge, I kite, I emp and I snipe and I can never actually do any damage to their base at that point. they just warp in chargelots and my army is damage from stim and storm etc. and I can't kill them and the next time we meet I have the same comp because I have no other options and they have more archons, more storms, and more colossus if they choose.
I like long games and it's the only matchup where I can repeatedly go into the long game with a lead, feel that I'm playing well, and eventually get steamrolled even on more bases with actual control (not required by the toss besides for storms)
what else is there?
At some point it becomes increasingly difficult to keep up with a protoss that can just tech switch, especially in the late game where they get up to 16-20 gates and 2 robos supported by all their tech.
In situations like these, I tend to multiple cloak nuke their bases while I leave my main army ready in a defensive stance for the all-in deathball push that'll inevitably follow.
This way I use very little supply to fuck up their econ/production while my main army is still big and juicy enough to handle their attack. Also, make sure to have lots of EMPs ready for their attack, because they are gonna go all out.
Tips for nuking in bases:
It all depends on how many cloak ghosts you plan on using in your nuke drop.
- 1ghost nuke can kill mass clumped up pylons, effectively supply blocking your protoss opponent. Also probes. 
- 2ghost nukes targeted in the same place can take tech structures (Robotics facility and the like/also cyber if you add some extra dps).
- 3+ghost nukes can totally obliterate mass gateway numbers. If you get up to these numbers, you can effectively cut off their reinforcements by a ton. No more mass chargelots.
What you need to be careful of are observers and cannons. They can mess everything up. So remember to always scan the area that you plan on nuking beforehand. Just to be safe.
The best part about something like this is that in the current meta-game Protosses aren't expecting cloak nuke drops on their production.
Also there should be a thread somewhere around here that discusses these ideas more in-depth. So do some searching if this style interests you.
GL!
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On April 28 2012 19:23 Vari wrote:
lategame tvp is sort of ... not fair? right?
I know it's not a helpful way to look at the game but I just need verification from other folks dealing with what I'm dealing with. masters level tvp where unless I win in like the first 15 blizzard minutes there is virtually no possibility of victory?
I storm dodge, I kite, I emp and I snipe and I can never actually do any damage to their base at that point. they just warp in chargelots and my army is damage from stim and storm etc. and I can't kill them and the next time we meet I have the same comp because I have no other options and they have more archons, more storms, and more colossus if they choose.
I like long games and it's the only matchup where I can repeatedly go into the long game with a lead, feel that I'm playing well, and eventually get steamrolled even on more bases with actual control (not required by the toss besides for storms)
what else is there?
I agree. It's why I come up with random 2 base all ins that come off gasless FE's and just do constant pressure from that point on.
I don't like long TvP, since 1 storm, or 1 collsai tech switch and you're fucked beyond belief. I don't have the big army micro to handle 200 vs 200 vs protoss, and land 4 perfect EMPs, etc etc.
As such --
http://drop.sc/168456
http://drop.sc/168457
http://drop.sc/168459
http://drop.sc/168460
All TvP on KR during my recent climb to masters. First season on KR. The awesome thing is, on most maps, if you sense gateway semi all in pressure, you delay the 2 port, and just go for tanks, and more rax. The last one I face a 4-5 gate pressure with like 15+ stalkers/sentry/zeal against 3 bunkers and 2 tanks, and completely dominate it.
Couple more from my games on EU this morning.
http://drop.sc/168568 500 pt EU toss
http://drop.sc/168569 500 pt EU toss
http://drop.sc/168570 400 pt EU toss that cheesed me game before, so I play super safe.
Posting a few more games of TvP gasless -> marine tank marauder banshee 2 base all in play from my NA games tonight.
http://drop.sc/168800 vs 750pt protoss on NA ladder
http://drop.sc/168801 vs top 100 GM on NA ladder
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Versus a zerg, when is the best time I should be adding on my second factory?
I normally add my second factory, a couple of barracks, the second engineering bay and armory when I take my third base at ~10:30 after opening up one barracks expand.
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Hi TL!
What are the most importentes ingame times to scout a protoss?
It would be nice if you could describe them like this:
[Time / what probally will seen / how to react]
Like:
Minute 12, colossus tech, start viking production from 2nd starport
This could help to improve my problemes against toss and maybe yours too
Thank you!
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On April 28 2012 14:13 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 13:20 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:
Currently in TvZ and TvP I 1rax double expand into 4 rax plus tech, and it has worked fine for me, and I have not had any bad build order losses yet. However, TvT is not the same, as my 1rax double expo is really weak to early tank pushes, which a lot of terrans do. What is a build that gets me 2 early expos but isn't as weak to really early tank pushes? Or I could also say: What is a terran build that gets enough units/tech out early to be able to hold an early tank push (obviously with lots of bunkers and stuff) that also gets me two early expos, with me getting a 3rd CC preferably before 10 minutes? 3 OC is greedy as fuck in TvT and will always be punished. It is not viable.
Ok thanks. Do you have any good suggestion for a TvT build then that isnt so vulnerable to tank pushes as a 1rax expand?
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On April 29 2012 07:53 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 14:13 iAmJeffReY wrote:On April 28 2012 13:20 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:
Currently in TvZ and TvP I 1rax double expand into 4 rax plus tech, and it has worked fine for me, and I have not had any bad build order losses yet. However, TvT is not the same, as my 1rax double expo is really weak to early tank pushes, which a lot of terrans do. What is a build that gets me 2 early expos but isn't as weak to really early tank pushes? Or I could also say: What is a terran build that gets enough units/tech out early to be able to hold an early tank push (obviously with lots of bunkers and stuff) that also gets me two early expos, with me getting a 3rd CC preferably before 10 minutes? 3 OC is greedy as fuck in TvT and will always be punished. It is not viable. Ok thanks. Do you have any good suggestion for a TvT build then that isnt so vulnerable to tank pushes as a 1rax expand?
Lately I'm doing a 15 gas -> marine tank build that gets an FE reasonably fast, but still relies on 1-1-1 tech for defense. IE medics, and tanks with siege. Or, on certain maps, a tech lab after a marine to scout without having to burn a scan and check for FE/tech and then you know how greedy you can be with the 3 rax.
I go 3 rax 2 fac 1 port, for heavy mid game tank control and just try to engage well with marines to make them not die for naught.
Two games just played, one vs mech one vs marine tank on EU
http://drop.sc/168661 vs 550 mech
http://drop.sc/168662 vs 620 bio -> marine tank terran.
The opening BO feels rather safe and can go either reaper or reactor depending on what map you are on. Bad reaper map = reactor. If I reaper, I go 3 rax -> fac later. If I reactor, tanks early for defending 1-1-1s with marine tank medic as it can hold about any push they can throw at you.
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I have 2 questions regarding the Blink Stalker + Observer allin and the 3 Gate Immortal allin in TvP.
The first question is, what are pointers which i can look for to get the information ?
Normally i scout with my SCV and look for Gas timings and Chronoboost safed up. But a fast 2nd Gas can mean everything, from DT, Immortal, Void Ray, Blink Stalker or Sentry expand. So i usually check the natrual with a parked SCV between 5:00 and 5:30. If i see no expandtion there isn´t an expandtion i know that an allin is comming, but even then i never hold a Blink Stalker + Observer allin or a 3 Gate Immortal allin in diamond league. Is there a timing, where i can send an SCV scouting, to see hius army comming?
What should i have to hold these allins?
What upgrade should i get frist with my techlab barracks? Stim or Combat Shield? Normally i get Combat Shield, when i sense an allin, because it´s faster done and increases the hp of my marines. Should i get all addons and produce double Marrauders? Or should i just put a 2nd techlab on the other barracks and produce double Marrauders? Or should i just have 1 TL producing Marrauders and the other marines? What else should i keep in mind to stay safe aggainst those allins? My Macro isn´t really the problem. I can stay below 500 Minerals with constant scv production and no supply blocks until 10 Minutes without error, but i think there are some errors in the order i place addons/get upgrades, which makes it hard for me to hold those allins.
Do you have any reaplays where you successfully hold one of these allins?
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On April 29 2012 22:54 Sianos wrote:
I have 2 questions regarding the Blink Stalker + Observer allin and the 3 Gate Immortal allin in TvP.
The first question is, what are pointers which i can look for to get the information ?
Normally i scout with my SCV and look for Gas timings and Chronoboost safed up. But a fast 2nd Gas can mean everything, from DT, Immortal, Void Ray, Blink Stalker or Sentry expand. So i usually check the natrual with a parked SCV between 5:00 and 5:30. If i see no expandtion there isn´t an expandtion i know that an allin is comming, but even then i never hold a Blink Stalker + Observer allin or a 3 Gate Immortal allin in diamond league. Is there a timing, where i can send an SCV scouting, to see hius army comming?
What should i have to hold these allins?
What upgrade should i get frist with my techlab barracks? Stim or Combat Shield? Normally i get Combat Shield, when i sense an allin, because it´s faster done and increases the hp of my marines. Should i get all addons and produce double Marrauders? Or should i just put a 2nd techlab on the other barracks and produce double Marrauders? Or should i just have 1 TL producing Marrauders and the other marines? What else should i keep in mind to stay safe aggainst those allins? My Macro isn´t really the problem. I can stay below 500 Minerals with constant scv production and no supply blocks until 10 Minutes without error, but i think there are some errors in the order i place addons/get upgrades, which makes it hard for me to hold those allins.
Do you have any reaplays where you successfully hold one of these allins?
http://drop.sc/169068 3 gate blink + OB all in vs 900pt protoss on NA
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On April 29 2012 23:18 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2012 22:54 Sianos wrote:
I have 2 questions regarding the Blink Stalker + Observer allin and the 3 Gate Immortal allin in TvP.
The first question is, what are pointers which i can look for to get the information ?
Normally i scout with my SCV and look for Gas timings and Chronoboost safed up. But a fast 2nd Gas can mean everything, from DT, Immortal, Void Ray, Blink Stalker or Sentry expand. So i usually check the natrual with a parked SCV between 5:00 and 5:30. If i see no expandtion there isn´t an expandtion i know that an allin is comming, but even then i never hold a Blink Stalker + Observer allin or a 3 Gate Immortal allin in diamond league. Is there a timing, where i can send an SCV scouting, to see hius army comming?
What should i have to hold these allins?
What upgrade should i get frist with my techlab barracks? Stim or Combat Shield? Normally i get Combat Shield, when i sense an allin, because it´s faster done and increases the hp of my marines. Should i get all addons and produce double Marrauders? Or should i just put a 2nd techlab on the other barracks and produce double Marrauders? Or should i just have 1 TL producing Marrauders and the other marines? What else should i keep in mind to stay safe aggainst those allins? My Macro isn´t really the problem. I can stay below 500 Minerals with constant scv production and no supply blocks until 10 Minutes without error, but i think there are some errors in the order i place addons/get upgrades, which makes it hard for me to hold those allins.
Do you have any reaplays where you successfully hold one of these allins? http://drop.sc/169068 3 gate blink + OB all in vs 900pt protoss on NA
Well i watched that replay and the terran didnt go for 1 rax gasless FE, ofc that the answer vs blink stalker is stimmed marauders but that seemed like a bo win for the terran that game ( with really poor macro by the toss, as he had less army supply before his first blink into the base)
However, when u're going 1 rax gasless FE, you wont have stim ready when his first blink happend, and u'll barley have more then 1-2 marauders.
The "pros" answer is an inbase bunker, but tbh, i always had 1, and never really helped me that much, as the stalker just skipped it and took my stim tech lab and then just kept harassing while avoidng the bunker.
I never holded a blink stalker allin by diamond+ toss, tho i was ready for it with "by the book" inbase bunker most of the times.
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EPT
