EPTAnother thing I was wondering about: did the nerf to infernal pre-igniter make it a very bad idea to try to use mass blue flame hellions in TvT to clean up marines so that banshees can target sieged tanks when your opponent is playing marine/tank? Or is that not cost-effective now?
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 163
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Trollface
United States15 Posts
Another thing I was wondering about: did the nerf to infernal pre-igniter make it a very bad idea to try to use mass blue flame hellions in TvT to clean up marines so that banshees can target sieged tanks when your opponent is playing marine/tank? Or is that not cost-effective now? | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
What's the best way to identify that zerg plans some early agression? What's the best response, given that i'm working towards 1 rax, 2 fact with infernal preigniter? What should I transition into? | ||
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shishy
United States115 Posts
On February 29 2012 05:16 Smackzilla wrote: In TvZ, I gasless FE into mass BF hellions as per Drewbie's strategy guide. Not surprisingly, the thing I have some trouble with is early-ish busts off of 2 bases, either involving roaches or banes. What's the best way to identify that zerg plans some early agression? What's the best response, given that i'm working towards 1 rax, 2 fact with infernal preigniter? What should I transition into? Check if he's mining past 100 gas early on, usually that indicates roach aggression. Always wall off with bunker and depot  .If you're going mass bfh, I feel like mech would be good but just don't delay tanks/thors too much because mutas might just auto win if you aren't careful (or get turrets, whatever). Do deal with hive tech, you need to go Ghost + Mech or Ghost + Viking Raven to deal with it :D | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On February 28 2012 22:32 KroN wrote: that looks really fun, will try it on short maps (does not rewally work on long ones, correct?). What crushes this? Mass ling should, right? A little refined this would be a neat build for shorter maps! Big maps are a no no. I'd only do it on meta/shattered/korhal, personally. And only if they only make 1 spine, and don't mass lings. You can cut back to reapers if they mass lings, I suppose. It's honestly been my vs scouted spanishwa style. All queens, and most cut spines for more drones faster, so why the hell not kill a few queens. | ||
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Yohsc2
28 Posts
I m getting really really bored of this match-up, i just cant win cause i always get stomped by some mass a-move speedlings/banelings...makes me sick http://drop.sc/122816 | ||
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siii
Norway251 Posts
Here's a replay I played today, just picked it because it's fairly long: http://drop.sc/122835 I feel like I was in complete control of the game except for straight after my first push which gets completely demolished, and maybe after he gets som BL's out which I wasn't expecting of his poor 2/3 base. Just point out anything important I could improve on, I know there's alot but just point out the massive/important mistakes I'm doing. Thanks. | ||
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JrClimbers
57 Posts
What's the correct response? Mine gas and tech? Expand fast? | ||
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AnEcho
United States2 Posts
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Doomblaze
United States1292 Posts
Marine medivac and drop 3 medivacs in three different places, there isn't anything he can do against that, you can kill a lot of his bases and tech, and BL doesn't kill stuff very fast. I don't know anymore... | ||
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Huggerz
Great Britain919 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 29 2012 08:07 JrClimbers wrote: Let's say you attempt to 2rax bunker pressure a 15hatch Zerg, but your attack is held off and does little to no damage. What's the correct response? Mine gas and tech? Expand fast? Expand, then add 2 Barracks (take gas after Barracks 3 & 4) and go some bio before teching Tanks/Medivacs, or 2 gas (add some Barracks later and tech Combat Shields or Stim if you want to play Marine/Tanks) and tech Blue Flame Hellions out of 2 Factories before transitionning into Marine/Tanks/Medivacs (or mech). I also saw some Koreans go double expand on their stream. Polt also plays a double Starport transition after expand, hitting with 4 cloaked Banshees before playing Marine/Tanks/Medivacs. | ||
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VoO
Germany278 Posts
On February 29 2012 08:32 AnEcho wrote: TvZ question - what's the best endgame unit composition vs a max army of broodlords, infestors, and corruptors? Is there even a way to survive this head on? Nope. Just leave the game if it takes this long. It is crucial that you force the enemy to do things you want him to do, e.g. I open up with gas first with mass hellions into 3 banshee, he either goes mass lings which is stupid or roaches which is fine because it will set him back and I can start dropping. The issue is that marines are not a counter to BL in reality since the path to late game almost always includes infestors, he will outrange you with broodlings and you can't stim in because of blings/infestors. Vikings are useless if he has infestors and corruptors. Ravens are unexplored but fucking expensive, maybe someone will come up with something, but it won't be viable soon. It is a common misconception by SC2 players that you should be able to win in every phase of the game by being better than your opponent, which isn't true if you're equaly strong. If you allow a Protoss to get 8 gas, you lost. If you allow a Zerg to get 6 bases, you lost. In these situations you onyl win if your opponent makes grave mistakes, like going afk. You must change the flow of the game, like iloveoov said: "I go into every game with the idea to make it a rape." You are the fucking rapist and your enemy is a fucking victim at the end of the game the bitch should cry because you forced him to do things he didn't want to. So start to think about your goddamit and fucking no, macro isn't keeping your minerals low, macro is optimizing your build order. Do it Flashstyle, e.g. this is my way of thinking in TvZ: 1. Currently every Zerg is completly retarded for late game abuse. 2. Because he thinks that Stephano is good, he will mass lings into infestor/BL or he will go Dimaga roach. 3. Standard timings are figured out, hellion expand is too late to do anything. 4. I take my gas first to get Hellions asap since I will have a chance to do damage with this odd timing. 5. 4 hellions to poke, make it seem normal and go up to 6-8 hells. 6. If he continues to build lings I continue to build hellions, so many idiots stop hellion production to get owned by mass lings. 7. Parallel I build a marauder, bunker and a starport - so if he goes roaches, which I really hope, I will rape him with hellion runby, marauder defense and banshee. Otherwise I will include the marauder in my drop so that he can tank bling damage 8. Snipe a queen and drones with 3 banshees, maybe he will go crazy and start attacking me or build spores, either way I get damage for free and won't lose anything. 9. Now he should have Mutalisks, Zerg players like standard timings therefore I will continue to drop while mutalisks are out on the map and push with a small force towards his 3rd. Why does he have mutalisks? Because I build banshees. | ||
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VoO
Germany278 Posts
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
Tanks Hellions Thors ? I know for tanks, with +1 weapon they can 1 shot lings right? And with thors vs a lot of zealots, it is better for +1 armor since zealots hit twice? Or is this dependent on many other factors? | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On February 29 2012 09:06 TheDwf wrote: Expand, then add 2 Barracks (take gas after Barracks 3 & 4) and go some bio before teching Tanks/Medivacs, or 2 gas (add some Barracks later and tech Combat Shields or Stim if you want to play Marine/Tanks) and tech Blue Flame Hellions out of 2 Factories before transitionning into Marine/Tanks/Medivacs (or mech). I also saw some Koreans go double expand on their stream. Polt also plays a double Starport transition after expand, hitting with 4 cloaked Banshees before playing Marine/Tanks/Medivacs. I've seen KRice do a 3 rax 1 reactor fac 2 port no cloak marine banshee hellion scv all in after 2 rax does any damage but gets repelled. Sometimes it never hurts to break out that bastard and just trainwreck a Z who can't use banes right. | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
How should i control them easilier? My current hotkeys are: 1.MMM (kiting, stutterstep) 2. Ghost (EMP) 3. Viking (focus fire Collosus) But 3 different control groups is really hard for me to control. I'm just high plat and i always screw up in the big battles like a-click of the protoss and some storms here and there and i die.. To improve my Hotkeysetup i decided to watch some Replays of Pro Players in TvP. Most of them have the following setup: 1. MMM+Viking 2. Ghost I think it is way more easy to control just 2 groups but how they do it exactly? I think if they have the Bio Ball+Viking in one group how they kite with their Bio and take them out of the collosus rage and the Viking still focus the Collosus. If i have my vikings in the same group as my MMM-Ball and want to kite my vikings just move back like the MMM-Ball, because i give them a new order to execute. How do they control it? I can't imagine maybe you guys can help me. thx in advance | ||
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KroN
Germany438 Posts
On February 29 2012 20:40 saaaa wrote: concerning control of the TvP MMMGV Composition: How should i control them easilier? My current hotkeys are: 1.MMM (kiting, stutterstep) 2. Ghost (EMP) 3. Viking (focus fire Collosus) But 3 different control groups is really hard for me to control. I'm just high plat and i always screw up in the big battles like a-click of the protoss and some storms here and there and i die.. To improve my Hotkeysetup i decided to watch some Replays of Pro Players in TvP. Most of them have the following setup: 1. MMM+Viking 2. Ghost I think it is way more easy to control just 2 groups but how they do it exactly? I think if they have the Bio Ball+Viking in one group how they kite with their Bio and take them out of the collosus rage and the Viking still focus the Collosus. If i have my vikings in the same group as my MMM-Ball and want to kite my vikings just move back like the MMM-Ball, because i give them a new order to execute. How do they control it? I can't imagine maybe you guys can help me. thx in advance Hi, i do it the same way... 1 - MMM 2 - Ghosts 3 - Air Vikings in the same group ans your MMM sounds rediculously dumb, cause your vikings wont attack when you stutter step while you are moving and the whole purpose is to stutter step you MMM away from the colossus while your vikings kill them. Then after the Colos are dead you engage his ball in a good concave and avoid storms if he has some. I would just advice you to practise it more, you will get used to it and it gets easier and if it does, you have a far superior method to fewer hotkeys imo. EDIT: I ignored the downtime in viking shooting, but its definately slower than stimmed MMM so it should still be bad, also i like to flank with vikings, thats not doable in 1 hotkey. | ||
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fiveohfive
Australia81 Posts
On February 29 2012 09:09 VoO wrote: Nope. Just leave the game if it takes this long. I disagree with this. To be put simply, most games you will not get to late game because you have been trading armies all game long trying to punish each other.... However, some T v Z game you will get to late game, the key here is know when to RECOGNISE that it WILL go to late game. In the event that you do go into late game T v Z; - Just starting adding ghosts to your army and start adding more nuke silos researching nuke. (assuming you are going Marine/Tank) - How I approach my late game with this composition is, I abuse the fact of how I KNOW how immobile broodlord/infestor/corrupters are. One thing you will know for certain, the zerg HAS to keep his corrupters with his broods. If at any given point in time you catch a flock of broodlords by themselves just pick up your marines with the medivacs and drop under them. Now given the fact if he is a decent Zerg that keeps some corrupters with his broodlords, you can literally hold him from attacking you (what feels like to me all game long) by utilising defensive nukes, placing nukes in strategic locations giving your army a chance to stim and take out broodlords or keep the zerg occupied all game long by shift queuing your ghosts to start hailing down nukes on his expansions and dropping all game long. I have been doing this for a while now and believe me, it is really hard to pull off... but as you start to get the hang of it you will lose some and win some, but for gods sake don't leave the game when you can still potentially win it. If you want to take my advice, start abusing nukes and drops once you see a zerg get that late game army comp. You will find not many zergs can keep up with the constant drops and nukes.... a lot of zergs have literally gg's out of my T v Z games simply out of pure frustration. EDIT: I'd also like to add the fact because Broodlords are so slow in movement, most zerg literally just A click the broodlords straight to your base (lol). If you have some map awareness (control of towers) you will find that you can actually cast nukes down into their movement path predicting where their army will be. I have taken out quiet a few Brood Flocks by doing this. | ||
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arkk
United Kingdom3 Posts
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