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unit
United States2621 Posts
On August 03 2011 03:56 CecilSunkure wrote: I don't know, but expect me to do a lot more of the similar in the near future! good to know, i look forward to it there is always a good deal to learn even from other players :D especially the higher level ones for instance despite being midmasters NA i didnt realize just how useful pulling the zealots back in PvP was when defending 4gate with a 3gate lol | ||
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89vision
United States70 Posts
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Adrenaline Seed
United States194 Posts
Also do they stack? | ||
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Felo
Germany392 Posts
On August 03 2011 04:31 Adrenaline Seed wrote: Do guardian shields reduce damage for attacks originating from within the radius of the shield? Also do they stack? Yes and no  The animation of the shield is mere fluff, it basically only increases the armor against ranged attack of every unit thats within the radius by two - its not altering the shots in any way ^^ And luckily they don't stack ^^ | ||
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Adrenaline Seed
United States194 Posts
On August 03 2011 04:34 Felo wrote: Yes and no The animation of the shield is mere fluff, it basically only increases the armor against ranged attack of every unit thats within the radius by two - its not altering the shots in any way ^^ And luckily they don't stack ^^ That seems like a pretty good buff, I play T so I wonder if I should be running from shield every time it pops. Especially if stutter step into shield does nothing. | ||
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Jonas :)
United States511 Posts
On August 03 2011 03:28 CecilSunkure wrote: Maybe. I know as a beginner, it would have been really nice to know some of these things. It's sort of like this: Sure everyone can understand that you want your army to fire more shots than the enemy's, but it's a whole different story on actually seeing it happen properly in-game. That was a big issue for me in BW. I'd hear a lot of things like "You need to do this properly!", but I was never able to see a good player actually do it, and as such lacked a frame of reference in which to compare to my own play. Fair enough. Your videos were definitely a lot more insightful per unit time than watching the Day9 dailies (I love Day9, but brevity is not his strong suit) . Keep it up | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On August 03 2011 05:58 Jonas wrote:Fair enough. Your videos were definitely a lot more insightful per unit time than watching the Day9 dailies (I love Day9, but brevity is not his strong suit) . Keep it up I actually agree. I used to watch a lot of Day9, but it was just taking too long to get to the good stuff. Too many jokes and casual chatter. I love Day9, but I'm just too busy to watch all that. | ||
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Adrenaline Seed
United States194 Posts
[B]On August 03 2011 06:07 CecilSunkure wrote: I actually agree. I used to watch a lot of Day9, but it was just taking too long to get to the good stuff. Too many jokes and casual chatter. I love Day9, but I'm just too busy to watch all that. Your going about it all wrong. You need to switch on Day9 right around Beer:30 and relax for awhile. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On August 03 2011 06:19 Adrenaline Seed wrote: Your going about it all wrong. You need to switch on Day9 right around Beer:30 and relax for awhile. Haha... That's not my style | ||
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dave333
United States915 Posts
Not only does it add that extra layer of attack like you say, it forces extra forcefields! They need to forcefield the lings off two, particularly +1 lings, or else watch their little sentries get shredded by the lings. Then they need to FF the roaches too. That's a lot of forcefields, even if they are in decent positions. They can also eat up some damage too, like against stalkers. With +1 on your lings, your ling/roach attacks are incredibly strong and can deny protoss thirds with their speed, and threaten truly deadly backstabs. Also your micro is a lot easier the protoss when just lings/roaches, vs him needing to forcefield and get good positioning. Lings are also better for reinforcing because of their speed and build time; because lings get better as the enemy's numbers get smaller, it only makes sense that reinforcing with lings=good. Lings are also "efficient" at eating Collossus shots. Collossus will basically "overkill" them by quite a bit, particularly when there are a bunch of them. The lings fry instantly, but the shot that it takes to kill them lets your roaches live a little longer and get in a bit closer as well. Adding lings to roaches can really help fight blink stalkers; against pure lings, blink stalkers can avoid the surround by blinking everything at once. Against roaches, they can just blink and blink and blink and never lose a stalker. But against ling/roach, they cant do that; it takes a lot more control and much smarter use of blink to really fight roach ling, particularly +1 lings. The stalkers also can't just attack the roaches (especially considering the DPS of +1 roaches), and you can keep reinforcing with lings while keeping your roaches alive Ling roach, ling hydra roach, hydra ling, are all fantastic compositions. Nestea and Losira in particular love going roach/ling/corruptor, kill collossus, into hydra/ling. Idra did this as well against cruncher, and it looked fantastic. Once collossi are down the hydra deathball slowly moves around and controls territory, while lings can quickly dash behind and provide meatshield/extra DPS, and also attack different bases. | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2574 Posts
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Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
I'm a zerg player and I have found that adding more zerglings always helps (to the point of not making roaches except when absolutely necessary), and with zergling based compositions flanks are important. As a zerg player, I think unit positioning is more important than unit composition, and because zerglings let you choose your engagements the best, they have become my preferred unit. Zerglings can destroy marine tank. If you run in from one side you lose everything and do no damage. If you flank, you crush him and have a ton of lings left over. One nitpick about your roach/ling demo. I think the reinforcement round of units had a bigger impact than the unit choice for the initial engagement. If you brought in the ling reinforcements in the fight that started with only roach, you'd still dominate. Another thing is that when you incorporate the cost of overlords in your roach to zergling comparison, you end up with a lot more zerglings in your first engagement. Zerglings are also great for drawing overkill. You talk a lot about the importance of overkill, and that's one of the great things about lings. A 35 hp ling can take a full stalker volley, or take two hits from a zealot and still take 3 stalker shots, wasting a ton of damage. This even comes into play against colossus. Another important point in favour of zerglings is how they effect forcefield usage. melee units and ranged units require different forcefields, and having both really reduces the forcefield's effectiveness. (I guess I am basically +1ing dave3333) | ||
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Temporarykid
Canada362 Posts
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Kyrize
United States23 Posts
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RabidSeagull
United States220 Posts
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On August 03 2011 08:08 Oboeman wrote: Great videos. I'm a zerg player and I have found that adding more zerglings always helps (to the point of not making roaches except when absolutely necessary), and with zergling based compositions flanks are important. As a zerg player, I think unit positioning is more important than unit composition, and because zerglings let you choose your engagements the best, they have become my preferred unit. Zerglings can destroy marine tank. If you run in from one side you lose everything and do no damage. If you flank, you crush him and have a ton of lings left over. One nitpick about your roach/ling demo. I think the reinforcement round of units had a bigger impact than the unit choice for the initial engagement. If you brought in the ling reinforcements in the fight that started with only roach, you'd still dominate. Another thing is that when you incorporate the cost of overlords in your roach to zergling comparison, you end up with a lot more zerglings in your first engagement. Zerglings are also great for drawing overkill. You talk a lot about the importance of overkill, and that's one of the great things about lings. A 35 hp ling can take a full stalker volley, or take two hits from a zealot and still take 3 stalker shots, wasting a ton of damage. This even comes into play against colossus. Another important point in favour of zerglings is how they effect forcefield usage. melee units and ranged units require different forcefields, and having both really reduces the forcefield's effectiveness. (I guess I am basically +1ing dave3333) Yeah I'm realizing that the higher I go on the ladder the better ling usage is by Zergs. Zerglings run into your base the moment you move out, every time. Zerglings are always thrown into battle and flank around back to cut mobility of my army. Zerglings just have a lot of utility a lot of players don't (or don't know how to) take advantage of. | ||
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Chemist391
United States366 Posts
Lower level players will cut a T army in half, kill off the front half, but then let their zealots just dance around in front of the FF wall taking free shots. It's better to pull them back similarly to your 3gate vs 4gate example and then engage with them again when the 2nd round of FF happens (or the front ones vanish if you've trapped units in a FF prison). | ||
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terence158
Australia64 Posts
6 roaches and 20 lings costs 950 minerals 150 gas 9 roaches costs 675 mins 225 gas 10 roaches costs 750 mins 250 gas 11 roaches costs 825 mins 275 gas Possibly you have to factor in the ling speed upgrade, maybe not cause most players get this anyway, but 11roaches is cheaper than 6roaches+20lings+speedupgrade consider the same battle, if you just spent the 950 minerals on pure ling, you would have 24 lings left over (so instead of 950/150 turning into 450/150, you would have 600/150), then you have to consider if you spent 100 of that gas on an early +1 atk for your zerglings and forewent 4 lings (making 850 minerals worth of lings, and +1 atk) now you still end up with 24 lings after the battle, but you also have an upgrade. for the same price. better yet, get +1 armor and transition to roaches after the battle when he is going zealot heavy to counter your lings. basically, i don't get the cost effectiveness argument unless you want to put the actual costs to equal numbers. especially when just 1 roach extra changes that battle by so much, it is arguable that 11 roaches is similar in cost to 6roaches + 20 speedlings given larva and upgrade concerns i think pure units are better either way you look at it in a straight up fight, because zerg upgrades only affect either their ranged or melee units. not to say the composition of roach ling isnt better than pure roach, but i think the reasons behind it being better are not simply cost effectiveness in the battle. on of the reasons behind the composition being more effective is that they cant scout your army and just build the countering units, others are counterattack opportunity / punishing early move outs etc etc. otherwise it was a pretty cool video, | ||
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ReiKo
Croatia1023 Posts
btw. in second video you supplement Zerg army with more Zerglings - then it's not cheaper or the same army it's much stronger force then Protoss one. You could reinforce in case 1 when Zerg lost. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On August 12 2011 11:00 ReiKo wrote: Also, you explained multiselect in first video, then unnecessary in second. btw. in second video you supplement Zerg army with more Zerglings - then it's not cheaper or the same army it's much stronger force then Protoss one. You could reinforce in case 1 when Zerg lost. I actually only meant to mention that it was underused in the first video, and didn't explain or portray it until the second one. As for the ling thing, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Thanks for the feedback! | ||
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