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I can not seem to find a way to stop a Terran siege tank push, that includes marines and marauders. Every time a Terran goes siege tank I lose, and I'm not saying this from one game, I have had 10-15 games against Terran where they go siege tank and I lose. If I make it into the late game I am usually fine, but if they come out with an early 2 siege tank push, or something of the sort (usually soon after I expand) I tend to get crushed.
I have searched how to counter this and not many things I have tried seem to work. This includes DT's (works in first push because they are unexpected, but then they are pretty worthless in a second push), Phoenix (picking up the siege tanks, the enemy just focuses phoenix with marines), and Speed Zealots (I would hide my zealots a little away from base, so that when he attacks with siege tanks I can counter from behind, this doesnt seem to work because I just don't have enough Power Units to kill the rest of his army because of teching to charge). I am trying to figure out a solid way to beat this but I am just having no luck at all.
The only times I have been able to beat it is if I have perfect scouting and I intercept the siege tanks when they happen to be away from the army while he is moving from my base. Otherwise I have been unable to beat it if my scouting falters, or he attacks before I can get an observer out. (My main build against Terran is 3 Gate Pressure into Expansion)
Also, I am a Gold Player. Thank you for any help you guys can give me.
EDIT: Here is a replay - http://www.zshare.net/download/91534100814dd2d9/
I know it is not the best Macro and control, but that's not that major right now as I am in gold. (Although don't get me wrong, I want to improve them), its just the fact that I can almost always beat a Terran unless they do this. If he would have attacked me when he was originally going to (instead of going for the pylon) I would have had no phoenixes out.
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Please post a replay, that's the easiest way to tell you what you are doing wrong. And although you already mentioned that chargelots didn't work for you, if you didn't get enough units out because of researching it then you are probably macroing poorly.
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Agree with FortyOzs, please post a reply and we can help you better
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You don't have to have speed zealots. Just get a lot of zealots, they can't get kited in most situations as doing so will expose the tanks and you can forcefield anyways. Like two immortals work really well against those 2~3 tank pushes.
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I have some good news. All you have to do is have enough units and you can literally attack move into it (activate guardian shield to lessen damage from marines). So the answer is going to be, at least against 2 tanks, to just "have enough units" which means "macro better / have a better build order." Have zealots lead to take those tank shots.
It's extra effective if you lead with an immortal and it takes 2 tank shots on its hardened shields.
In the late game, have more units, and have charge. And more immortals.
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Ok I will try to find one, but I realize my Macro might not be perfect, but I don't think that is the problem, because when I face a Terran that goes anything else, I can usually beat them (or at least survive the early pushes, and lose because of other reasons late game).
I will try to find a replay right now.
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Trump is absolutely right here. Particularly with the zealot leading advice. When the zealots go down, retreat with your stalkers/sentries and wait for another round of zealot warp ins. Obviously, if possible, try to spread out your units pre-engagement. In order to fight off a tank push, you need to make mineral units. Try to go heavy on the zealots, and just try to keep stalkers alive.
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Terran player here. I find siege tanks to be a sub optimal allocation of my resources against protoss due to the following:
If siege tanks are scouted, the protoss has the following options
1.) charge zealots 2.) several immortals (10 tank shots which is 30 in game seconds are needed to get rid of hardened shields) 3.) blink stalkers, for blinking on top of the tanks 4.) phoenix for picking up tanks before engagement 5.) any combination of 1-4 should deal with tanks in a more than cost effective manner.
I hope this helped.
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Here is a replay - http://www.zshare.net/download/91534100814dd2d9/
I know it is not the best Macro and control, but that's not that major right now as I am in gold. (Although don't get me wrong, I want to improve them), its just the fact that I can almost always beat a Terran unless they do this. If he would have attacked me when he was originally going to (instead of going for the pylon) I would have had no phoenixes out.
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I have also tried Immortals and they have not worked out well as yes it takes time for the siege tanks to kill them, but the Marine Marauder just focus them down.
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On June 17 2011 10:30 Trump wrote: I have some good news. All you have to do is have enough units and you can literally attack move into it (activate guardian shield to lessen damage from marines). So the answer is going to be, at least against 2 tanks, to just "have enough units" which means "macro better / have a better build order." Have zealots lead to take those tank shots.
It's extra effective if you lead with an immortal and it takes 2 tank shots on its hardened shields.
In the late game, have more units, and have charge. And more immortals.
Idk if your the real trump or not but w/e . Um so just attack moving is definitely not working for me, and again I don't think it's a problem with my Macro (although it isn't amazing) just because I can beat Terran when they go anything else.
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The easiest way to kill tanks is to use DTs.
If you scout your opponent using a mass tank marine push, use DTs spread across the map to keep him contained and wasted some scans.
In the even that your opponents fields ravens, skips the blink stalkers because PDD will wreck em to hell. You can simply make mass chargelots or use HT with storm.
I guess you could use mass voidrays and carriers (HuK did it for funday monday of Day9)
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With the 2 siege tank push/banshee/Raven + mauraders and sometimes scv you need fast expo or fast colosus. Check out White-ra vs Sjow in the NASL there Sjow tryes this strategy and White-ra shuts it down by going fast colosus
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I'm only platinum, but my advice to you is a lot of charge zealots with some other warp gate units mixed in, and some ranged colossi. Putting the zealots in the front is necessary for it to work, so if you can just take the time to either put them in a different control group or ctrl+click them and move them all to the front before the engagement. Guardian shield over your charge zealots will also help a lot vs. the marines.
If you can keep an observer over their looming army, then that helps a lot as well. I've won a lot of battles vs. a tank pushing terran just because I attacked as soon as I saw them unsiege their tanks to push forward.
Siege tanks used to stump me completely but now I try to go for charge zealots as fast as possible against them and I've been having a lot better results : )
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On June 17 2011 11:01 xerus wrote: I'm only platinum, but my advice to you is a lot of charge zealots with some other warp gate units mixed in, and some ranged colossi. Putting the zealots in the front is necessary for it to work, so if you can just take the time to either put them in a different control group or ctrl+click them and move them all to the front before the engagement. Guardian shield over your charge zealots will also help a lot vs. the marines.
If you can keep an observer over their looming army, then that helps a lot as well. I've won a lot of battles vs. a tank pushing terran just because I attacked as soon as I saw them unsiege their tanks to push forward.
Siege tanks used to stump me completely but now I try to go for charge zealots as fast as possible against them and I've been having a lot better results : )
So I don't need to try to attack from the back with the zealots to do well, I just need to attack move from the front, making sure the zealots are in front? I will try this I just feel that the Tanks will still rip apart my forces.
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Picking them up with Phoenixes works fantastically too, then your HTs/Colossi can go to town as per usual
edit: just practice timing it so that you pick them up just as your units are about to enter range, but not so late that they are exposed to the marines of course. 'Meatshield' units that cover the ground quickly like blink stalks or chargelots are key here
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EDIT: Just saw a replay in a previous post. I think you should place it in your OP to avoid confusion.
And also because I would like to know how to work on fighting Tanks with Protoss as well and would like to see the replays of these instances.
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On June 17 2011 10:52 IHertz wrote: I have also tried Immortals and they have not worked out well as yes it takes time for the siege tanks to kill them, but the Marine Marauder just focus them down.
If you're going zealot (w/out charge) and immortal, it doesnt matter if the immortals are focused down, your zealots will be hacking away the whole time. If he has enough bio to focus immortals and clean up your gateway force, its probably your macro. Unless he only has 1-2 tanks, but then it's not much of a tank push.
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whenever you see siege tanks, engage him as far away from your base as possible. the point is not to commit (or even engage for that matter), just force him to siege then run away, delaying his push and giving you more time to prepare. chargelots for a flank are nice, phoenixes to pick up the tanks are good if that is the unit comp you went for. 3gate FE is also a very safe opening.
Please upload a replay for more detailed help.
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