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I can not seem to find a way to stop a Terran siege tank push, that includes marines and marauders. Every time a Terran goes siege tank I lose, and I'm not saying this from one game, I have had 10-15 games against Terran where they go siege tank and I lose. If I make it into the late game I am usually fine, but if they come out with an early 2 siege tank push, or something of the sort (usually soon after I expand) I tend to get crushed.
I have searched how to counter this and not many things I have tried seem to work. This includes DT's (works in first push because they are unexpected, but then they are pretty worthless in a second push), Phoenix (picking up the siege tanks, the enemy just focuses phoenix with marines), and Speed Zealots (I would hide my zealots a little away from base, so that when he attacks with siege tanks I can counter from behind, this doesnt seem to work because I just don't have enough Power Units to kill the rest of his army because of teching to charge). I am trying to figure out a solid way to beat this but I am just having no luck at all.
The only times I have been able to beat it is if I have perfect scouting and I intercept the siege tanks when they happen to be away from the army while he is moving from my base. Otherwise I have been unable to beat it if my scouting falters, or he attacks before I can get an observer out. (My main build against Terran is 3 Gate Pressure into Expansion)
Also, I am a Gold Player. Thank you for any help you guys can give me.
EDIT:
Here is a replay -
http://www.zshare.net/download/91534100814dd2d9/
I know it is not the best Macro and control, but that's not that major right now as I am in gold. (Although don't get me wrong, I want to improve them), its just the fact that I can almost always beat a Terran unless they do this. If he would have attacked me when he was originally going to (instead of going for the pylon) I would have had no phoenixes out.
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Please post a replay, that's the easiest way to tell you what you are doing wrong. And although you already mentioned that chargelots didn't work for you, if you didn't get enough units out because of researching it then you are probably macroing poorly.
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Agree with FortyOzs, please post a reply and we can help you better 
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You don't have to have speed zealots. Just get a lot of zealots, they can't get kited in most situations as doing so will expose the tanks and you can forcefield anyways. Like two immortals work really well against those 2~3 tank pushes.
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I have some good news. All you have to do is have enough units and you can literally attack move into it (activate guardian shield to lessen damage from marines). So the answer is going to be, at least against 2 tanks, to just "have enough units" which means "macro better / have a better build order." Have zealots lead to take those tank shots.
It's extra effective if you lead with an immortal and it takes 2 tank shots on its hardened shields.
In the late game, have more units, and have charge. And more immortals.
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Ok I will try to find one, but I realize my Macro might not be perfect, but I don't think that is the problem, because when I face a Terran that goes anything else, I can usually beat them (or at least survive the early pushes, and lose because of other reasons late game).
I will try to find a replay right now.
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Trump is absolutely right here. Particularly with the zealot leading advice. When the zealots go down, retreat with your stalkers/sentries and wait for another round of zealot warp ins. Obviously, if possible, try to spread out your units pre-engagement. In order to fight off a tank push, you need to make mineral units. Try to go heavy on the zealots, and just try to keep stalkers alive.
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Terran player here. I find siege tanks to be a sub optimal allocation of my resources against protoss due to the following:
If siege tanks are scouted, the protoss has the following options
1.) charge zealots
2.) several immortals (10 tank shots which is 30 in game seconds are needed to get rid of hardened shields)
3.) blink stalkers, for blinking on top of the tanks
4.) phoenix for picking up tanks before engagement
5.) any combination of 1-4 should deal with tanks in a more than cost effective manner.
I hope this helped.
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Here is a replay -
http://www.zshare.net/download/91534100814dd2d9/
I know it is not the best Macro and control, but that's not that major right now as I am in gold. (Although don't get me wrong, I want to improve them), its just the fact that I can almost always beat a Terran unless they do this. If he would have attacked me when he was originally going to (instead of going for the pylon) I would have had no phoenixes out.
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I have also tried Immortals and they have not worked out well as yes it takes time for the siege tanks to kill them, but the Marine Marauder just focus them down.
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On June 17 2011 10:30 Trump wrote:
I have some good news. All you have to do is have enough units and you can literally attack move into it (activate guardian shield to lessen damage from marines). So the answer is going to be, at least against 2 tanks, to just "have enough units" which means "macro better / have a better build order." Have zealots lead to take those tank shots.
It's extra effective if you lead with an immortal and it takes 2 tank shots on its hardened shields.
In the late game, have more units, and have charge. And more immortals.
Idk if your the real trump or not but w/e  . Um so just attack moving is definitely not working for me, and again I don't think it's a problem with my Macro (although it isn't amazing) just because I can beat Terran when they go anything else.
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The easiest way to kill tanks is to use DTs.
If you scout your opponent using a mass tank marine push, use DTs spread across the map to keep him contained and wasted some scans.
In the even that your opponents fields ravens, skips the blink stalkers because PDD will wreck em to hell. You can simply make mass chargelots or use HT with storm.
I guess you could use mass voidrays and carriers (HuK did it for funday monday of Day9)
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With the 2 siege tank push/banshee/Raven + mauraders and sometimes scv you need fast expo or fast colosus. Check out White-ra vs Sjow in the NASL there Sjow tryes this strategy and White-ra shuts it down by going fast colosus
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I'm only platinum, but my advice to you is a lot of charge zealots with some other warp gate units mixed in, and some ranged colossi. Putting the zealots in the front is necessary for it to work, so if you can just take the time to either put them in a different control group or ctrl+click them and move them all to the front before the engagement. Guardian shield over your charge zealots will also help a lot vs. the marines.
If you can keep an observer over their looming army, then that helps a lot as well. I've won a lot of battles vs. a tank pushing terran just because I attacked as soon as I saw them unsiege their tanks to push forward.
Siege tanks used to stump me completely but now I try to go for charge zealots as fast as possible against them and I've been having a lot better results : )
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On June 17 2011 11:01 xerus wrote:
I'm only platinum, but my advice to you is a lot of charge zealots with some other warp gate units mixed in, and some ranged colossi. Putting the zealots in the front is necessary for it to work, so if you can just take the time to either put them in a different control group or ctrl+click them and move them all to the front before the engagement. Guardian shield over your charge zealots will also help a lot vs. the marines.
If you can keep an observer over their looming army, then that helps a lot as well. I've won a lot of battles vs. a tank pushing terran just because I attacked as soon as I saw them unsiege their tanks to push forward.
Siege tanks used to stump me completely but now I try to go for charge zealots as fast as possible against them and I've been having a lot better results : )
So I don't need to try to attack from the back with the zealots to do well, I just need to attack move from the front, making sure the zealots are in front? I will try this I just feel that the Tanks will still rip apart my forces.
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Picking them up with Phoenixes works fantastically too, then your HTs/Colossi can go to town as per usual
edit: just practice timing it so that you pick them up just as your units are about to enter range, but not so late that they are exposed to the marines of course. 'Meatshield' units that cover the ground quickly like blink stalks or chargelots are key here
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EDIT: Just saw a replay in a previous post.
I think you should place it in your OP to avoid confusion.
And also because I would like to know how to work on fighting Tanks with Protoss as well and would like to see the replays of these instances.
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On June 17 2011 10:52 IHertz wrote:
I have also tried Immortals and they have not worked out well as yes it takes time for the siege tanks to kill them, but the Marine Marauder just focus them down.
If you're going zealot (w/out charge) and immortal, it doesnt matter if the immortals are focused down, your zealots will be hacking away the whole time. If he has enough bio to focus immortals and clean up your gateway force, its probably your macro. Unless he only has 1-2 tanks, but then it's not much of a tank push.
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whenever you see siege tanks, engage him as far away from your base as possible. the point is not to commit (or even engage for that matter), just force him to siege then run away, delaying his push and giving you more time to prepare. chargelots for a flank are nice, phoenixes to pick up the tanks are good if that is the unit comp you went for. 3gate FE is also a very safe opening.
Please upload a replay for more detailed help.
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After watching the replay I noticed a few things. One is that your macro wasn't the greatest.
Putting that aside he had nothing but Marauders and Seige tanks for a good while. Against his unit comp from the replay, immortals would have done work. Not only is the damage taken by immortals reduced to 10 while they have shields, but they also do extra damage vs armored (which was all he had, except for the medi's and maybe the 3 rines he built at the end).
I played Terran for a long time and actually had the most trouble playing against Protoss. My unit composition as Terran was basically MMM with a few tanks. A Protoss ball of stalkers, sentries, immortals, and 2-3 colossus would walk through my army regularly. Also against Terran I would suggest using more of the guardian shield spell.
Try this, go 3 gate-1 robo vs Terran. Here is a good build right here from Liquipedia.3 Gate 1 Robo
Try it a few times in custom games before you play on ladder so you can get the macro down. This is a good all around build.
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On June 17 2011 10:30 Trump wrote:
I have some good news. All you have to do is have enough units and you can literally attack move into it (activate guardian shield to lessen damage from marines). So the answer is going to be, at least against 2 tanks, to just "have enough units" which means "macro better / have a better build order." Have zealots lead to take those tank shots.
It's extra effective if you lead with an immortal and it takes 2 tank shots on its hardened shields.
In the late game, have more units, and have charge. And more immortals.
This. Definitely this. I watched the replay and I do think that you could also watch your unit composition, with so many marauders it would be a good indicator to get more lots instead of stalkers and a robo to pump immortals. And another thing is, scout the terran. If you're further away you can get away with blind expanding after your first pressure but it's best to note that in close positions he will definitely counter pretty quickly and you won't have time to react. Also, try to engage tanks away from chokes.
Of and what the guy above me said, basically.
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Yes, you want to engage far away from your base. Force a siege, run, repeat. If he's made it to your base, you want to fight for every possible inch. Scrap-style. Force field off units, dont fully commit.. Pick off a tank maybe, units, bunker, retreat and remacro. Blink stalkers and dts are wonderful to abuse mobility or lack of detection.
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On June 17 2011 11:15 tuestresfat wrote:
whenever you see siege tanks, engage him as far away from your base as possible. the point is not to commit (or even engage for that matter), just force him to siege then run away, delaying his push and giving you more time to prepare. chargelots for a flank are nice, phoenixes to pick up the tanks are good if that is the unit comp you went for. 3gate FE is also a very safe opening.
Please upload a replay for more detailed help.
Yeah thats why I like the 3 Gate FE. Replay is uploaded btw.
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On June 17 2011 11:25 Ragnarok87 wrote:After watching the replay I noticed a few things. One is that your macro wasn't the greatest. Putting that aside he had nothing but Marauders and Seige tanks for a good while. Against his unit comp from the replay, immortals would have done work. Not only is the damage taken by immortals reduced to 10 while they have shields, but they also do extra damage vs armored (which was all he had, except for the medi's and maybe the 3 rines he built at the end). I played Terran for a long time and actually had the most trouble playing against Protoss. My unit composition as Terran was basically MMM with a few tanks. A Protoss ball of stalkers, sentries, immortals, and 2-3 colossus would walk through my army regularly. Also against Terran I would suggest using more of the guardian shield spell. Try this, go 3 gate-1 robo vs Terran. Here is a good build right here from Liquipedia. 3 Gate 1 RoboTry it a few times in custom games before you play on ladder so you can get the macro down. This is a good all around build.
Ok, but what if its a mix of Marines and Mauraders (as this is not the only time i've lost to this, and there were times where I had better macro and control, its just that they were deleted from my recent replays). I will try the 3Gate 1 Robo btw.
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On June 17 2011 11:44 IHertz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 11:25 Ragnarok87 wrote:After watching the replay I noticed a few things. One is that your macro wasn't the greatest. Putting that aside he had nothing but Marauders and Seige tanks for a good while. Against his unit comp from the replay, immortals would have done work. Not only is the damage taken by immortals reduced to 10 while they have shields, but they also do extra damage vs armored (which was all he had, except for the medi's and maybe the 3 rines he built at the end). I played Terran for a long time and actually had the most trouble playing against Protoss. My unit composition as Terran was basically MMM with a few tanks. A Protoss ball of stalkers, sentries, immortals, and 2-3 colossus would walk through my army regularly. Also against Terran I would suggest using more of the guardian shield spell. Try this, go 3 gate-1 robo vs Terran. Here is a good build right here from Liquipedia. 3 Gate 1 RoboTry it a few times in custom games before you play on ladder so you can get the macro down. This is a good all around build. Ok, but what if its a mix of Marines and Mauraders (as this is not the only time i've lost to this, and there were times where I had better macro and control, its just that they were deleted from my recent replays). I will try the 3Gate 1 Robo btw.
This is where scouting comes into play. The first thing out of your robo bay should be an observer. Use it, scout, and change/plan your unit composition accordingly. If he mixes more marines then you should build more colossus (extended thermal lance is a must), more marauders and mech means you should build more immortals, etc. Study the hard counters to the more popular builds for each match-up. Also having decent micro-management goes a long way. Set-up your army to protect your power units.
Teamliquid.net has been a crucial resource for me, since I discovered the site my play has made exponential improvements. Surf the forums, read the suggested strategy threads Suggested threads, watch VODs, etc.
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1. Use immortals in combination with warpprisms and observers. can be devastating against sieged tank groups.
2. Let some zealots walk alone in front of your army. they will tank some of the tanks for a while.
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same prob  after immortals the guy just goes thors and sweeps my base
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immortal is the easiest answer that you did not list you are trying. Thier sheilds will tank so much damage, and they 3 shot tanks Im pretty sure (assuming no upgrades)
So your safest bet would to get a few immortals to soak the damage
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Get alot of zealots if you see tanks. The tank splash on your zealot will rip bio unit to pieces. That is the main reason why tanks arent standard in TvP. Of course your macro has a lot to do with it as well. :p
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#1 is SCOUTING. If you do not scout the tank build early, it can be too late. So scout a lot. He prolly wont have Rauders if he's getting tanks so be aggressive with your stalkers. Go up the ramp, risk some marine hits to get all the info you can get. Scouting this early givees you time to make preperations.
#2. Stay away from stalker/century compositions. Zealots (With charge if doable) Immortals are what you want, and Phoenx can help if he's also making Banshee / Raven which is common. Colossus aren't bad If you can get Thermal Lance, otherwise, stay with Immortal.
#3. Forget attack/armor upgrades in the near turn. Forget all the fancy upgrades. charge is the only one u want. Terran is likley going for a 1-2 base All-In build, so concentrate on UNITS, LOTS OF UNITS. More gates. Cut probe production if necessary to produce from a gate or 2 more. Remember, tank builds are usually All-Ins.
#4. Don't sit in your base waiting for him. Time is on your side. You can reinforce much faster than he reinforcing from the other side of the map. Attack when the tanks are unsieged, then pull back when they siege. Do this over and over. Try and pick off a tank. Use FF to block chokes and slow him down.
#5. Counter attack. Build a pilon near his base, warp in some units and try a counter. may not work but at gold, I suspect 50%+ it will do damage slow reinforcements.
#6. DO NOT LET HIM GET BUNKERS UP. Attack the SCV's making the bunkers, and attack before the bunkers finish.
#7. If he gets intrenched, and a straight on assult is not promising, make a warp prism, drop immortals behind him, and attack from both sides. Immortals kill the tanks from the back, while u attack the front with the rest of your force.
#8. If he's 1 basing, giving up your natural isn't the end of the world. Often times your main is much more defensable. And with either a proxy pilon or warp prism, counter attacks can find him unprepared and you can do a lot of damage.
So theres lots you can do. Scouting being the most important. If your prepared you should handle this. Get a friend, and practice defending this build. Practice on Crossfire cause thats the worst map to play against this build. If you can stop it on Crossfire, you can stop it anywhere.
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You should watch I think Alicia vs PoltPrime in the GSL Super Tournament RO8, especially Game 2 on Crevasse where Polt goes for a heavy Tank Marine play. Alicia uses the Colossi step up and down to his advantage, while Polt was sieged at his third in Crevasse, Alicia just takes a few shots and runs his Colossi and Blink Stalkers into his natural, killing it entirely and running out with with 1 Colossi casualty. His unit composition focused mainly of Chargelot Colossi, microing the Colossi every engagement and not losing a single one, with great patience.
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Watched the replay:
1. not constant probe production. the first thing you should do when you watch a replay is just look at the nexus and see how often it sits idle. Then go back and figure out why you didn't make a probe (what diverted your attention). The terran wasn't great at this either but he was still ahead (keep in mind constant MULES = +4 SCVs)
2. your first push didn't go well. you were even on supply going in, but you were down ~10 food afterwards. you got stuck in a really bad position on his ramp where he had a big concave and very few of your guys were actually shooting. I generally don't recommend trying to push up a terrans ramp. You should instead just poke and see what hes up to, maybe pick off a techlab and then get out of there. you dont want to lose any units. also while all this was going on a single marine walked up to your main and killed 5 probes :S
3. unit composition. you started with too many sentries and too few zealot/stalker, this is ok for defending, not for attacking. i think the stargate was a good reaction to what you saw but I would have gone for voids instead of phoenixes. like everyone has been saying, zealots are key against tanks. when he has so many marauders with conc shell zealots wont be as effective, but in this case voidrays or immortals would do very well.
4. getting supply blocked at 50 hurt you alot. this is very common when your under the pressure of an attack. Its important to remember this and always make sure you keep macroing in these situations.
hope that help
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On June 17 2011 11:38 DuckS wrote:
Yes, you want to engage far away from your base. Force a siege, run, repeat. If he's made it to your base, you want to fight for every possible inch. Scrap-style. Force field off units, dont fully commit.. Pick off a tank maybe, units, bunker, retreat and remacro. Blink stalkers and dts are wonderful to abuse mobility or lack of detection.
I don't really agree..
If you can somehow do this without losing units, then fine... but I doubt you can. Also a good terran just isn't going to siege if they see they can just 1a your army and kill it... unsieged tanks are almost as good.
It's much better to just fight at your base, where you will have a significant advantage in army size.
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You really shouldn't discount failures in macro just because you're Gold league. You built your 12th probe when you had 305 minerals at 1:58. Why ? You were dicking around in your opponent's base with your scout probe at a time when all he had was a supply depot. You were behind from the start. You may think that's normal gold league macro, but it's just bad, even for bottom Bronze.
Your attack didn't really do any damage, other than distracting you from the marine killing your workers. By the time the first tank even hit the field, you were behind enough to not really consider this a loss to Terran Seige Tanks.
It was bad macro in the beginning followed up by an unsuccessful attack, finished off by the Terran who happened to have a couple of siege tanks.
Probably comes off as harsh or crass, but the siege tanks weren't the problem.
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EPT
