EPT[Q] Is there an extremely defensive Terran style? - Page 2
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Gantritor
Italy112 Posts
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Dinosaur
Denmark112 Posts
On June 06 2011 03:52 naventus wrote: Goody's style is really not that good. Have you seen him post any good results against top players? Besides beating Strelok, Cloud, Brat_Ok, Fayth, Happy, Kas, Sjow, Sase, Avilo, DDE, Nestea and taking games from Naniwa, Morrow, Socke, Dimaga, Demuslim, Hasuobs and Select, no not really ... I guess his style sucks. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On June 06 2011 22:22 Ragoo wrote: It is very good, it's just very unique and very passive so other players aren't patient enough to play/train it. But people actually start to play his mech style with tank+hellion in tvt now. That Goody loses so much recently is probably because his mechanics are beyond horrible plus the fact that I don't think he ever found a stable TvP mech style. The last Goody game I actually remember involves his tank army getting chased across the map into a corner by 6 broodlords. :\ | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
TANKS People are saying when you unseige and move out you will get crushed. but if your going for this you need a slower "push" leapfrogging your tanks etc. I don't understand why terrans dont build turrets in their tank lines anymore. Really helps hold position against zergs. But yeah, go tanks sink your extra mins into riens or hellions which you can use to drop harass to keep the game frisky and then slowly take your 3rd/4th while your tank wall grows and just never let it break. Eventually the tank wall will reach your opponent. | ||
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
On June 06 2011 22:48 Dinosaur wrote: Besides beating Strelok, Cloud, Brat_Ok, Fayth, Happy, Kas, Sjow, Sase, Avilo, DDE, Nestea and taking games from Naniwa, Morrow, Socke, Dimaga, Demuslim, Hasuobs and Select, not not really ... I guess his style sucks. He actually beat at least Socke, Dimaga, Hasuobs and Morrow in at least one boX and was in more than 50% of the weekly cup finals for some weeks. His TvT record at that time was nearly 100% in tournaments. As the game evolves he will probably be worse if he doesn't improve his mechanics. He is still a tactical genius and super patient tho ^^ If mech in TvP becomes viable in the future Goody might become very solid overall  | ||
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NoisyNinja
United States991 Posts
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.Mthex-
United States168 Posts
its how you utilize the turtle that will matter-- you honestly should try to poke out with cloaked banshees as often as you can, or blue flame hellion drops. You just want to maintain some sort of *poke* harass. | ||
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
On June 06 2011 03:52 naventus wrote: Goody's style is really not that good. Have you seen him post any good results against top players? yes he beat nestea.... so his style does work even at the highest level | ||
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Leaky
United States176 Posts
Tanks are pretty awful in TvP past the early midgame though, because they are too supply costly, and because protoss units can soak up a lot of tank hits before going down. Pure thor/hellion can be pretty effective even after the thor nerf, but you'll need ghosts to EMP high templars & immortals. It's hard to say if TvP mech is truly viable though, since the protoss can mass a much more cost efficient deathball that is more mobile than terran mech. Players like Goody can make it work sometimes, but I've seen high level protosses such as Hasuobs and Naniwa rip apart Goody's style with ease when they know it's coming. | ||
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elitesniper420
Canada135 Posts
On June 06 2011 20:17 guitarizt wrote: Yet he's still better than 99.9% of the people here. Oh wow someone who plays this game for a living and is a on whole different level is better than most people here????? what a surprise! anyway, OP, in ZvT Terran can ALWAYS play defensively. Tanks are the best defense unit in the game and you also use them to attack. That's why Marine / Tank is so popular. What you do is start with something like 2rax or reactor hellion expand and then switch to tank tech. With well placed turrets and your marines you can shut down Mutas while your tanks will mean any ling / baneling attack is absolute suicide. Get upgrades, mass up units, etc, and move out constantly to pressure the Zerg while back home you'll be perfectly safe as more and more tanks/marines produce. Keep taking expansions after pressure and if you delay the drone count of the Zerg you've already won the game. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
On June 07 2011 04:12 NoisyNinja wrote: Regardless of race, if I see a turtle, i mass expand, enter macro mode, build up and then steam roll you. Except in Soviet Russia the turtler steamrolls you! Anyway, is there any counterpart to mass turtle for protoss? | ||
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
On June 06 2011 03:03 arto wrote: As terran you really cannot turtle (without harrasing) because Terran has slower worker production. If you do not attack Z they will out macro you due to larva mechanics. Maybe versus protoss you can get away with it but the power of the deathball late game and Chrono early game letting them macro freely is bound to turn out poorly more often then not. Mules are worth 8 workers if I recall correctly, and one OC can constantly call down mules if it isn't using any scans. It doesn't count in worker saturation as well, so the mule evens out the economy for Terrans. Because of Mules, Terrans have the strongest late game imo because you can just make 10 OCs just for mules and kill off all your SCVs to get a real 200/200 army. | ||
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genius_man16
United States749 Posts
On June 06 2011 03:52 naventus wrote: Goody's style is really not that good. Have you seen him post any good results against top players? He beat Nestea, probably the best player in the world right now, is that not good enough? Part of the reason he is "not so good" is because he has pretty bad mechanics and multitasking abilities. He has a pretty low APM (like ~100 maybe) so if someone does a good job making him react to multiple things he crashes pretty hard. I think Goody's style is destined to be the future of TvZ, because it's much more stable when done correctly and doesn't require you to walk on eggshells vs banelings. The problem is most pro's haven't really gotten away from the marine/tank shenanigans. Edit: To answer the OP's question I would suggest Goody's mech style. Or perhaps try to be a little like a protoss and get 3 bases up and then make a deathpush at 200/200. The problem with doing that vs zerg is generally the deathpush involves a lot of marines, so if the zerg got quick infestors or you mess up your micro vs banelings then it can get shut down pretty easily. | ||
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elitesniper420
Canada135 Posts
On June 07 2011 07:31 eYeball wrote: Except in Soviet Russia the turtler steamrolls you! Anyway, is there any counterpart to mass turtle for protoss? Yes, it's called cannons + forcefields | ||
Chill
Calgary25979 Posts
On June 06 2011 03:05 Peterblue wrote: Not in TvZ. Mech in TvZ, especially on Xel'Naga Caverns, is strong. Once you get to your gold you just have to watch your flank, watch for drops, and not miss the transition to Brood Lords. If you get a 4th base it's super hard for Zerg. This is at Masters, I don't know wtf is happening above that. | ||
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elitesniper420
Canada135 Posts
On June 07 2011 07:37 genius_man16 wrote: He beat Nestea, probably the best player in the world right now, is that not good enough? It isn't when he aclicks his entire roach/bane army into his army. That series was incredibly awful. As for future of "ZvT", remember when tanks did 50 damage against light (probably not)? All Terran did was go Mech, but now with the nerf it has so many weaknesses you only really see it done in Diamond League. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
i tend to turtle when i'm going for tank focused army (marine/tank) or other tech focued route like banshee and thor, or something i've been doing a lot lately for fun, 1rax3oc. since i would get eaten up with only 1 or 2 tanks and handful of marines against zerg/protoss, i tend to turtle until i have a good size army to maximize my damage and move out. if not, i'd have two dropships with 2 tanks and 8 marines to drop at a cliff/isolated area like in tal darim and lost temple or two dropships full of marine and few marauder to take out key buildings and upcoming expansions. on the other hand i like to move out early with handful of units against terran if there is an opening to siege up and cause a little damage or delay his/her 1st expansion. | ||
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-UMADIMSTYLIN-
Cuba292 Posts
Unit comp is mostly tank/helion/viking ghost. Any good protoss though will know how to abuse your immobility once you're trying to protect 3/4 bases (want spidermines) : (. Anyways its a lot more fun to play then bio and if anyone cares, 1200 master terran | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
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codonbyte
United States840 Posts
You could try to do a marine drop, but if it gets killed (which is likely if mutas are out), you've lost 500/100 (8 marines plus one medivac). Alternatively, for the cost of one EMPTY medivac, you can make a zerg player (or any player) believe that one of their bases is in imminent danger. The "Nuclear Launch Detected" warning that zerg will receive upon the nuke's launch is extremely disruptive, especially late game. I mean, think about it: you're a zerg player with 4+ bases, and now all of a sudden you have to drop everything you're doing and look in every base for the little red dot. Obviously, zerg can't really be doing any fancy micro while he's looking for the dot. Heck, it might even be worth 100/100 just to make zerg hear the warning, even if there's actually no chance that any of his stuff will get nuked. Mutas trashing your base? Launch a nuke on some random part of the map that zerg doesn't have vision of. He'll have to drop everything and look in each of his bases for the dot. He'll probably have to double or triple check, since he obviously won't find it. All the while, he can't be microing his mutas. | ||
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