On May 27 2011 09:22 CrayonKing wrote:
Any have a link the replay? Just a quick question from T perspective, how did MKP engage the army? stim first and then 2 emps? who are you targetting? stalkers/sentrys?

http://www.gomtv.net/2011super1/vod/65423 (free to watch)

rmAmnesiac

United Kingdom185 Posts

May 27 2011 12:24 GMT

#42

On May 27 2011 08:20 LoneWolf.Alpha wrote:

Show nested quote +

problem is, in early game, terran can scout protoss with scan or floating rax, but toss can't scout terran.

so toss wont know if terran is getting ghosts or what, but terran can tailor his build to whatever.

that is the problem i always run into time and time again in PvT. Terran can customize his build order during the game, but toss is always on the back foot unless he gets robo observer. but i honestly prefer fast HT over fast collosus.

and why is that exactly? 1 gate robo adapt gets observer to his base incredibly fast. or perhpas you haven't heard of this unit before?

NuclearStar

United Kingdom57 Posts

May 27 2011 12:36 GMT

#43

I do this all the time against protoss and have done for the last few months, Normally I find the protoss doing 3 gate robo expand. And I move out just when stim finishes and after I have started my expo building. 2 ghosts is all that is required and you should have 2 or 3 EMP's ready.
Even if there is a colossus out, there wont be many, and usually thermal lance wont be done by that time. I guess I have a 90% win ratio against that particular composition. I think I only lose when I make some big EMP mistakes.
But protoss should definatly get it in their head that 3gate robo expand is NOT the safest opening agaisnt the 2 ghost push.

Akaann

Switzerland82 Posts

May 27 2011 14:31 GMT

#44

Does this build works against a 4-Gate Push?

Q8_Devil

United Kingdom63 Posts

May 27 2011 16:00 GMT

#45

Does this build works against a 4-Gate Push?

protoss will 4 gate before this attack happenm if u survived with good eco you will win anyway.

MrCon

France29748 Posts

May 27 2011 16:09 GMT

#46

How this build work vs 4 gates (or any other build) are fairly irrelevant here. One good thing about this build is that it's a reactionary build, you branch on it after an expansion and 3 rax. You have plenty of time to scout before your start your ghost academy, so for the 4 gates part, it's not "how this build fare against a 4 gates" but "how 4 gates fare against a 1 rax expand".
So the answer is : it depends :p One rax expand can defend a 4 gates if you don't tech at all (or if you tech but do not lift your CC and fight at your ramp with tanks), if you have enough bunkers, if you don't cut rax units...

I think it's a good thing to train this build like 10+ times, until your are at least comfortable executing it, then you have it in your arsenal and use it if you scout a nexus first (and perhaps a one gate expo, and even perhaps a 3 gates expo, I don't know).

Probe1

United States17920 Posts

May 27 2011 16:24 GMT

#47

On May 27 2011 09:38 Severus_ wrote:Things i think will work vs this is stargate openings.fast colossus.blink stalker allin and even some kinda of DT cuz he will have to waste emps on DTs and make his army more inefficient without does emps.

I doubt any kind of DT would work. You notice that the army is a little gas dry. Hmm you think, I better save a scan on EACH of my OCs just in case. Oh a shimmer. Scan, DT dead. Weaker than usual gateway army emp'd and dead.

Blink stalker I cannot comment on because I do not know the specific timing, whether it would come before or after MKPs attack did

Fast colossus discussed already

stargate would be strong but would require intense micro.

Personally, I love any strategy that incorporates ghosts into a role heavier than countering high templar.

Serashin

235 Posts

May 27 2011 16:27 GMT

#48

to the point improvments to the build i gotta add:
a clearly improvement if you know already that probes pulling is somewhat bad to the push itself and there is no splash , just pull scvs out of terran view u gotta see it always how good pushes are if you add a splash non existent factor aswell meaning ur scvs will be your steamroll heros
(or you can call it using bitbybit.prime mindset)

TrickyGilligan

United States641 Posts

May 27 2011 16:40 GMT

#49

On May 28 2011 01:27 Serashin wrote:
to the point improvments to the build i gotta add:
a clearly improvement if you know already that probes pulling is somewhat bad to the push itself and there is no splash , just pull scvs out of terran view u gotta see it always how good pushes are if you add a splash non existent factor aswell meaning ur scvs will be your steamroll heros
(or you can call it using bitbybit.prime mindset)

Interesting point, but have you really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

copacetic

56 Posts

May 27 2011 16:51 GMT

#50

why do you guys theorycraft so much? just practice and learn 2 play lol, you waste your time discussing strategies when the majority of you are diamond scrubs

User was temp banned for this post.

naventus

United States1338 Posts

May 27 2011 17:00 GMT

#51

Can someone explain how/why he skips ebay until much much later timing? All he knows is that P is 1base, yet he doesn't prepare against stuff like DT.

Only reason I can think of is that he's doing that build to blind counter Squirtle's play style.

sereniity

Sweden1159 Posts

May 27 2011 18:25 GMT

#52

brb, deciphering

no but really, what?

MLG_Wiggin

United States767 Posts

May 27 2011 21:28 GMT

#53

On May 28 2011 02:00 naventus wrote:
Can someone explain how/why he skips ebay until much much later timing? All he knows is that P is 1base, yet he doesn't prepare against stuff like DT.

Only reason I can think of is that he's doing that build to blind counter Squirtle's play style.

If you scout an FE you can delay your ebay. The 6:30ish ebay timing is for fastest possible DTs.

GHOSTGrim

United States4 Posts

June 03 2011 20:16 GMT

#54

Is there any way to watch this game? The VOD on gomtv does not seem to be working.

Grndr101

Belgium125 Posts

July 09 2011 05:20 GMT

#55

I've been looking for a build like this, since sentries nullify any stimpush or conc shell push early on, even when they 1gate expand. My question would be bunker timings and scouting. You have to scout pressure builds to put up the bunkers, how do you do that? And you would need at least one bunker early for when the chrono stalker comes out(marines can't micro against stalkers).

Low level T, btw. TvP is my least stable matchup.

Scila

Canada1849 Posts

July 31 2011 08:39 GMT

#56

Just tried this build and got ran over by stargate/3gate. When do you build the bunker? This build is so complex

LicH.

China235 Posts

July 31 2011 08:58 GMT

#57

Hehe here's the Rice variation of it :p

Serge89

Belgium38 Posts

September 30 2011 14:22 GMT

#58

Hi, im a high diamond player on EU server and i love this build. Anyway, i always wonder how to transition from the initial push if its not gg. I go straight for factory starport and then add 4 raxx.
Any idea ?

1nMack1

Canada88 Posts

October 18 2011 17:23 GMT

#59

The build is safe if you include a poke with your first marauder + marines. If you don't scout the protoss and check to see if you can pressure with these units while the units are sitting outside his base ready to hit asap some protoss will try and be super greedy and rush for colo.

Those protoss will get wrecked by this push. Vs a protoss playing safely you can't hit at this time. So you need to at least check what he is doing, because colo will wreck you later if you let him rush for them.

I'd include the poke in the build order, if you don't include it you're just praying that he's not rushing for colos and i've had so many players do this vs me that I would say missing this opporunity to kill them is a gigantic hole.

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