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On May 21 2011 04:32 randplaty wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 04:21 Jaeger wrote:
I think you misremember, he didn't get a stargate that game he got hallucination and eventually robo and twilight council tech.
During the attack at his natural he lost from my count:
3 zealot
6 probe
3 stalker
2 sentry
1 cannon
1 pylon
If he had kept those 6 probes alive he would've had an income lead for about 20-25s before the drone count surpassed him.
This is the game where he didn't wall off at his nat right? He moved out and wasted 5 FF. He also didn't build the cannon immediately after the forge finished. He built the cannon at 8:15 when his forge finished at 7:25.
Yep and so pretend if he had those extra forcefields and could've saved all the units he lost at the end of the battle when he was out of energy. He would've then lost only:
2 zealots
4 probes
1 stalker
2 sentry
1 cannon
1 pylon
Regardless my point stands that it was not an all-in but rather an attack the forces protoss to burn off all their sentry energy and delays any scary push for a few minutes while zerg is free to drone up (it takes about 3 minutes for a sentry to gain 100 energy which is coincidentally about the same time it takes to get a lair and burrow). If protoss moves out anyways zerg backstabs with lings.
If protoss doesn't turn around to clean it up then zerg doesn't have to drone up because protoss is on 1 base economy and zerg can stay on his 2 base economy and spend larva from his 3 hatcheries on units to stay alive.
IMO it's just a good way to get your third base running as zerg vs a 3gate sentry expand. If protoss makes mistakes it can win the game, if he doesn't you're still fine for the midgame. Just like a 2gate expand with a 4stalker zealot sentry attack is a good way to get your natural up against a Terran and can potentially win the game if he makes mistakes.
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Maybe people should start getting Hallucination first over warpgate. Actually I'm gonna try this and see what happens.
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On May 21 2011 05:37 Jaeger wrote:
Yep and so pretend if he had those extra forcefields and could've saved all the units he lost at the end of the battle when he was out of energy. He would've then lost only:
2 zealots
4 probes
1 stalker
2 sentry
1 cannon
1 pylon
Regardless my point stands that it was not an all-in but rather an attack the forces protoss to burn off all their sentry energy and delays any scary push for a few minutes while zerg is free to drone up (it takes about 3 minutes for a sentry to gain 100 energy which is coincidentally about the same time it takes to get a lair and burrow). If protoss moves out anyways zerg backstabs with lings.
If protoss doesn't turn around to clean it up then zerg doesn't have to drone up because protoss is on 1 base economy and zerg can stay on his 2 base economy and spend larva from his 3 hatcheries on units to stay alive.
IMO it's just a good way to get your third base running as zerg vs a 3gate sentry expand. If protoss makes mistakes it can win the game, if he doesn't you're still fine for the midgame. Just like a 2gate expand with a 4stalker zealot sentry attack is a good way to get your natural up against a Terran and can potentially win the game if he makes mistakes.
But don't you think that if he had a proper wall off and his cannon was placed down at 7:30 that he would have escaped with very few losses? The cannon would have been up, dealing damage the entire time. His wall off would have allowed him to use even less FF than he did, so he would have had even more FF at the end of the battle. He used 5 unnecessary FF while pushing out. He had to FF one side of his natural two times using 3 FF each. That's 6 additional FF that could have been saved. So that's 11 FF total that he didn't really need to use.
I think it would have been possible for him to fend off the attack without losing any probes and retain probably 75% of his army... which means that the zerg couldn't just drone up for fear of a 5 or 6 gate.
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On May 21 2011 02:50 Minigun wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 02:38 Jaeger wrote:On May 20 2011 17:00 Minigun wrote:On May 20 2011 16:03 WrathOfAiur wrote:On May 20 2011 12:28 Minigun wrote:Nah it's pretty much meant to lower your sentry count and outright kill you. If you live you should be ahead. Here is what you will have when it hits on XEL NAGA and what your buildings should look like. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9M9Ha.jpg) Now, when u see it come, you add pure stalker after having 8-10 sentries, and units come before probes, and have a 2nd cannon warping in. Notice the positioning of the first cannon, and how there is a pylon behind it powering it. do not go out, stay behind mineral line/wall Yes i realize the forge/gateway will get picked off if you don't go outside the wall no one cares  , you just have to SURVIVE if you survive ESPECIALLY without losing probes, you are AHEAD. that's exactly how my building placement looks. roaches pick it apart; as you say. But if you loose your 4th gateway and forge, the zerg will just outproduce you. I know you are probably more skilled than me (I'm high master), so I think it's just that you never faced a zerg who is REALLY committing to this and is pumping pure units for the entire time. As soon as the buildings are down, a zerg can run in with 40 speedlings. your sentry energie won't last forever and you don't have the dps to kill the masses fast enough. when he is committing, he WILL kill you. I'm not talking out my ass, it's not like I haven't been roach/ling all in'd by zergs at my level, it happens from time to time, and it is definitely feasible, hard, but as long as you don't mess up, it should be fine. that's true they can, but u are forgetting you have forcefields, lings and unupgraded roaches, are helpless against sentries+cannons, completely helpless. You should be warping in more sentries as needed, if the attack continues, warp in more, I've held off these attacks and had like 14-15 sentries at the end because I needed them. The IM timing isn't really an all-in. It starts with usually even economy to a 3gate sentry expand and takes a 3rd base right before the attack and right as the protoss natural is getting up. 3 hatch 2 queen gives zerg an insane ability to power drones Look at losira vs alicia on terminus http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/vod/65189He doesn't out right kill him, in fact he doesn't even do too much damage but he's on equal economy before the attack. @ ~7minutes 34 drones to 29 probes roaches on the way @ ~10minutes the attack stops he's killed a few probes but really not done too much damage. alicia's battle control was very good. 32 drones to 30 probes @~12minutes this is the next time we get to know the worker count its 65 drones to 44 probes and what really could alicia have done by now? there's a group of speedlings ready for a backstab as soon as the attack stops if alicia trys to counter attack Yes I remember that game, he lost a ton of probes, not a few, he handled the attack poorly. He cut corners for a stargate. I've held this attack off and at the end i'd have not 2 less workers, but 10+ more. This attack keeps protoss honest, nothing more.
Hey Mini, thanks for taking the time to post in this thread and helping the protosses out :D
What do you think is the main difference between a greedy build which would straight up die to this, and a safe one which can defend it?
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On May 21 2011 04:21 Jaeger wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 02:50 Minigun wrote:On May 21 2011 02:38 Jaeger wrote:On May 20 2011 17:00 Minigun wrote:On May 20 2011 16:03 WrathOfAiur wrote:On May 20 2011 12:28 Minigun wrote:Nah it's pretty much meant to lower your sentry count and outright kill you. If you live you should be ahead. Here is what you will have when it hits on XEL NAGA and what your buildings should look like. Now, when u see it come, you add pure stalker after having 8-10 sentries, and units come before probes, and have a 2nd cannon warping in. Notice the positioning of the first cannon, and how there is a pylon behind it powering it. do not go out, stay behind mineral line/wall Yes i realize the forge/gateway will get picked off if you don't go outside the wall no one cares , you just have to SURVIVE if you survive ESPECIALLY without losing probes, you are AHEAD. that's exactly how my building placement looks. roaches pick it apart; as you say. But if you loose your 4th gateway and forge, the zerg will just outproduce you. I know you are probably more skilled than me (I'm high master), so I think it's just that you never faced a zerg who is REALLY committing to this and is pumping pure units for the entire time. As soon as the buildings are down, a zerg can run in with 40 speedlings. your sentry energie won't last forever and you don't have the dps to kill the masses fast enough. when he is committing, he WILL kill you. I'm not talking out my ass, it's not like I haven't been roach/ling all in'd by zergs at my level, it happens from time to time, and it is definitely feasible, hard, but as long as you don't mess up, it should be fine. that's true they can, but u are forgetting you have forcefields, lings and unupgraded roaches, are helpless against sentries+cannons, completely helpless. You should be warping in more sentries as needed, if the attack continues, warp in more, I've held off these attacks and had like 14-15 sentries at the end because I needed them. The IM timing isn't really an all-in. It starts with usually even economy to a 3gate sentry expand and takes a 3rd base right before the attack and right as the protoss natural is getting up. 3 hatch 2 queen gives zerg an insane ability to power drones Look at losira vs alicia on terminus http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/vod/65189He doesn't out right kill him, in fact he doesn't even do too much damage but he's on equal economy before the attack. @ ~7minutes 34 drones to 29 probes roaches on the way @ ~10minutes the attack stops he's killed a few probes but really not done too much damage. alicia's battle control was very good. 32 drones to 30 probes @~12minutes this is the next time we get to know the worker count its 65 drones to 44 probes and what really could alicia have done by now? there's a group of speedlings ready for a backstab as soon as the attack stops if alicia trys to counter attack Yes I remember that game, he lost a ton of probes, not a few, he handled the attack poorly. He cut corners for a stargate. I've held this attack off and at the end i'd have not 2 less workers, but 10+ more. This attack keeps protoss honest, nothing more. I think you misremember, he didn't get a stargate that game he got hallucination and eventually robo and twilight council tech. During the attack at his natural he lost from my count: 3 zealot 6 probe 3 stalker 2 sentry 1 cannon 1 pylon If he had kept those 6 probes alive he would've had an income lead for about 20-25s before the drone count surpassed him.
No I didn't, I was talking about the 2nd set.
The first set is I guess what you are talking about.
HE CUT CORNERS, just like I was saying, it's to keep protoss honest.
he had NO WALL, one pylon, and his cannon wasn't even up cross positions on that huge map
he
cut
corners
This build is to keep protoss honest. He had no wall on game 2 either, having a wall saves A TON of forcefields.
On May 21 2011 04:49 TUski wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 12:28 Minigun wrote:Nah it's pretty much meant to lower your sentry count and outright kill you. If you live you should be ahead. Here is what you will have when it hits on XEL NAGA and what your buildings should look like. Now, when u see it come, you add pure stalker after having 8-10 sentries, and units come before probes, and have a 2nd cannon warping in. Notice the positioning of the first cannon, and how there is a pylon behind it powering it. do not go out, stay behind mineral line/wall Yes i realize the forge/gateway will get picked off if you don't go outside the wall no one cares , you just have to SURVIVE if you survive ESPECIALLY without losing probes, you are AHEAD. In the nestea vs inca GSL finals game 1, Nestea's attack hit around 7:40. In your screenshot, the timer is at 8:30. Is the screenshot you posted an accurate description of what you would generally have at the 7:45 mark?
i misplaced a pylon and it took me a minute to decide if i should kill it or just leave it up, I decided to kill it, so therefore the "time" mark is off but what u see I have is what you should have when it hits....
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As a zerg, if I see FFE, or even nexus first, a roach/ling all-in is what you're getting from me.
If there wasn't rocks at the third on Tal'darim i would expand, but blizz doesn't like people who expand in response to expansions. So, roach/ling all in.
The times I am thwarted it's just forcefields, a lot of them. If they had enough sentries they can hold me off, simple as that. If they were spending their gas on tech of some kind, then no amount of sim city will save them from my aggression. One time, I ran into DT's but I was slow with my attack, I'm sure the "typical" roach/ling blob shows up earlier than I mustered that game.
I like the term "keeping the protoss honest", I think it's a cheeky response for them to throw down a nexus in response to my hatchery - When a hatchery could just be for production, like more warp gates or barracks. It's a greedy response and if you decide to take it, you need to have a plan for defense, rather than just hoping your opponent lets you expand.
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For the 3 gate expand, first, a wall is critical. It takes advantage of the melee range of lings to funnel them. One set up includes pylon(s), Forge, and the 4th gateway in the wall. At least 2 cannons are necessary as they provide excellent DPS in support of your army forces.
Get 6+ Stalkers for FFs, but remember to save gas for Stalkers. In this situation with the lings funnelled/trapped, and combating the ranged Roaches, Stalkers do quite well.
Maps like X Caverns can be a bit tricky because the natural is so large, but with good building and FF placement, you can turn the tide of battle for your forces.
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On May 21 2011 06:09 Minigun wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 04:21 Jaeger wrote:On May 21 2011 02:50 Minigun wrote:On May 21 2011 02:38 Jaeger wrote:On May 20 2011 17:00 Minigun wrote:On May 20 2011 16:03 WrathOfAiur wrote:On May 20 2011 12:28 Minigun wrote:Nah it's pretty much meant to lower your sentry count and outright kill you. If you live you should be ahead. Here is what you will have when it hits on XEL NAGA and what your buildings should look like. Now, when u see it come, you add pure stalker after having 8-10 sentries, and units come before probes, and have a 2nd cannon warping in. Notice the positioning of the first cannon, and how there is a pylon behind it powering it. do not go out, stay behind mineral line/wall Yes i realize the forge/gateway will get picked off if you don't go outside the wall no one cares , you just have to SURVIVE if you survive ESPECIALLY without losing probes, you are AHEAD. that's exactly how my building placement looks. roaches pick it apart; as you say. But if you loose your 4th gateway and forge, the zerg will just outproduce you. I know you are probably more skilled than me (I'm high master), so I think it's just that you never faced a zerg who is REALLY committing to this and is pumping pure units for the entire time. As soon as the buildings are down, a zerg can run in with 40 speedlings. your sentry energie won't last forever and you don't have the dps to kill the masses fast enough. when he is committing, he WILL kill you. I'm not talking out my ass, it's not like I haven't been roach/ling all in'd by zergs at my level, it happens from time to time, and it is definitely feasible, hard, but as long as you don't mess up, it should be fine. that's true they can, but u are forgetting you have forcefields, lings and unupgraded roaches, are helpless against sentries+cannons, completely helpless. You should be warping in more sentries as needed, if the attack continues, warp in more, I've held off these attacks and had like 14-15 sentries at the end because I needed them. The IM timing isn't really an all-in. It starts with usually even economy to a 3gate sentry expand and takes a 3rd base right before the attack and right as the protoss natural is getting up. 3 hatch 2 queen gives zerg an insane ability to power drones Look at losira vs alicia on terminus http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/vod/65189He doesn't out right kill him, in fact he doesn't even do too much damage but he's on equal economy before the attack. @ ~7minutes 34 drones to 29 probes roaches on the way @ ~10minutes the attack stops he's killed a few probes but really not done too much damage. alicia's battle control was very good. 32 drones to 30 probes @~12minutes this is the next time we get to know the worker count its 65 drones to 44 probes and what really could alicia have done by now? there's a group of speedlings ready for a backstab as soon as the attack stops if alicia trys to counter attack Yes I remember that game, he lost a ton of probes, not a few, he handled the attack poorly. He cut corners for a stargate. I've held this attack off and at the end i'd have not 2 less workers, but 10+ more. This attack keeps protoss honest, nothing more. I think you misremember, he didn't get a stargate that game he got hallucination and eventually robo and twilight council tech. During the attack at his natural he lost from my count: 3 zealot 6 probe 3 stalker 2 sentry 1 cannon 1 pylon If he had kept those 6 probes alive he would've had an income lead for about 20-25s before the drone count surpassed him. No I didn't, I was talking about the 2nd set. The first set is I guess what you are talking about. HE CUT CORNERS, just like I was saying, it's to keep protoss honest. he had NO WALL, one pylon, and his cannon wasn't even up cross positions on that huge map he cut corners This build is to keep protoss honest. He had no wall on game 2 either, having a wall saves A TON of forcefields.
Yes the first set, the game on terminus, like I said.
I'm not sure what you are trying to get at. He had enough forcefields to control the battle as he pleased until that last little bit where he lost an extra zealot 2 stalkers and 2 probes. I could believe he would've lost even less had he built a blind cannon. If he lost nothing but all his sentry energy I still believe the game would've gone on much as it did.
Unless you're suggesting that the forge in his natural would've saved enough forcefields that he'd have enough left to pressure zerg into continuing to produce units or risk dying to a counter attack.
Alicia wasn't in terrible shape after that attack he just couldn't put any pressure on zerg for a while. He moved out around 13 minutes as I would expect based on sentry energy regeneration. He scouted the hydra switch with hallucination and went for an attack with primarily immortal sentry anyways and the game really ended at the 15 minute mark when he lost his whole army due to a horrible composition mismatch. But that's beside the point of this thread.
He already blind forged and he built a cannon pretty much as soon as he saw roaches. If you have to blind forge and cannon at your natural you're giving zerg a world of information. You'll start the forge around the time he starts roaches and can easily scout to front and decide if he wants to turn all those larva into lings or drones. Either way you're pretty much assuring him that no 9minute 5-6gate timing is coming.
I guess that's fine if it's true but it seems like a pretty big opportunity cost. That forge and cannon could be a 4th and 5th gateway for instance. If zerg heavily drones up after speed instead of doing the timing or goes for a 10-11 minute muta timing is your attack still strong enough after buying safety from this potential hatch tech roach ling attack? Then again maybe you already needed that to buy safety in case of the 9 minute roach burrow/tunneling claws timing.
To summarize I think the timing is a good way for zerg to force out all of the forcefields out of a 3gate expanding protoss far from the zerg's base and get into his 3 base lair tech mid game safe from core tech pure gateway timings on equal or better terms economically and maintain map control until protoss tech kicks in.
And if it's not I'd like to know and see how a good defense of a solid execution leads directly to an easy quick win.
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You can have all of the things that Minigun said by the time the roach ling all-in comes, but i suggest using a specific simcity format that i've been messing with:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uboo1.jpg)
This way is not currently standard as far as i can tell, but it allows you to use significantly fewer forcefields and the set-up works the same way in both positions. also the odds of a pylon bust followed by an avalanche of lings is almost next to none. It's very easy to set-up too, I just don't see anyone using this format because everyone has continued the former tradition of a pseudo-choke beneath their ramp with a pylon + zealot, which actually hasn't worked since patch 1.2 was released last year. I do realize that this wall-in requires a fifth gateway, but you would only place the fifth gateway if you knew that roach-ling pressure was coming and the benefit you get from having gateway walls vastly outweighs the consequences of having a different arrangement that simply calls for additional pylons in my opinion. Furthermore if you're using travis's build, you would need to replace the forge with another gateway since your forge is in your main already.
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What is the purpose of making that wall-behind-the-wall with pylon #2? Doesn't that just restrict YOUR movements? Is there another way to place it that powers both cannons?
Cannon #3 is very vulnerable, isn't it? What if you moved it 1 square to the right and didn't send any probes to the left side mineral patches until the attack was cleared off?
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cannon 3 is not as important as the first two and should only be placed if the attention is focused behind your mineral line, as you forcefield him away from it as it warps in, there is a reason i have them numbered and that is because they are in order of importance.
as for the 2nd pylon, there are other places to put the pylon so that it still supports both cannons but i think the benefit you get from having fewer holes for lings to run through is worth walking around the gas. your entire army will always be near the gas anyway, either on the left or the right of it, and shouldn't prevent you from defending efficiently. though if it's that concerning to you, there are a lot of other ways to make this wall.
edit: by far the most important part of why i put this picture up is to point out the use of a gateway wall extending from the ramp as opposed to a pylon wall.
edit 2: the reason i elect to use the pylon placement that i am using in this picture is that it obeys a simple rule for construction placement that applies to a lot of different maps that i play on, and makes it easier for me to remember.
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I've seen some Grand Master players going 4 gate ---> expand.
If the Z plays greedy / drones hard, then gg Protoss wins instantly. If Z is being aggressive you will be able to cope with it pretty easily. If Z is being mildly aggressive / droning behind it then you will probably out-macro him and be able to pressure him back while you expand. If Z plays super defensive with like 4 spines or whatever then oh well take ur expansion and the money you spent on 4 gating he wasted on spines.
How is 4 gate expand a bad choice ^^
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to be safe you need to get a forge right after you plot down your expo and put down a cannon or two. good simcity along with sentries and stalkers can hold this. i've held the push several times this way and i am also mid masters. about the socuting yes i know it can feel like u are playing blind, but u have to try and hide a probe or two around the map so u can scout in intervals to see whether or not he is teching to lair or getting a fast roach den. this and getting hallucination / 4 gates before getting robo is my choice of PvZ.
i like to go 3 gate sentry expand > forge > upgrades + cannon > researching hallucination > get a fourth gateway > pressure if i see zerg being greedy and shark him with my 4 gates along with hallucination support Or i get a robo (if i see roach/hydra) and get a few immortals if its roach, immediately tech up to colossus if its hydra. and play standard from that point on. if its two base roach ling its very dependent on sim city and good proper forcefields (having 1-2 cannons is crutch).
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Ya mini ty tons for posting and helping us ill be sure to idle my computer on your stream when I'm at work to gets you more moneys :D
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Maybe with godly force fields you can hold against losira build with only one cannon on Xel'Naga, but I doubt even that. On maps with such wide open naturals you're basically guaranteed to take a ton of damage if you 3 gate expand. With the setup minigun took a picture of, you're going to lose that pylon on the outside right off the bat, and then maybe with perfect force fields you'll only lose a few probes.
Either way, you're taking damage, you're going to use up almost all of your force fields while they take a third, and you'll probably lose a few sentries and probes as well.
Just go 3 gate DT expand like HuK and take your free win against roach aggression while still being fine against anything else.
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I've been playing the roach/ling build a lot, and it seems pretty random; sometimes 3 gate exp with good sim city (and good micro/reaction time) can actually defend it without getting behind, most stargate builds can defend, but p ends up losing his nexus (so he gets waaay behind), dt builds obviously defend really well, but if z scouts/maphacks he will just add 2 spores, drone and be way ahead in eco.
Personally I think agains losira's build (losira gets ling speed quite late, nestea gets it a bit sooner from what I recall) early stalkers can be a massive pain in the ass - otherwise just cut probes and get an early 4th/5th gate (or cannons), I think both are quite viable if you know it's coming.
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Yea, I been reading comments and tried the DT build. imo it is very coinflip against player skill. It is very obvious if you are going dt or not, fast 2 gas+low sentry+slow expo means dt or void ray opening which evo+spore counters both. Then they can just safely drone get a few roaches and take a 3rd and you become so far behind.
The main problem I'm having with going hallucination first is you have less units when they attack comes because you missed the warpgate transition unit boost(at least it feels like I always have less units). It is just hard yea Stargate opening is pretty fail. I lose nexus every time and my void ray has to stay at my natural to kill off units since I don't have enough sentries to infinite ff my ramp. Then they always get spore+queen in the mean time and I do little to no damage(my micro isn't the greatest but picking off extractors and maybe an ovie or 2 just doesnt seem like it will get me even).
I know my micro needs more work as my ff isn't a pro level but yea it just seem really hard to hold off.
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On May 21 2011 04:10 ZeromuS wrote:I've been doing what Mini posted and what I saw in another thread from Alejandrisha and I have found that this works quite well Here is a replay of me doing this Granted I am only diamond but I think this an help others around my level specifically in seeing it can be done. http://drop.sc/11027It was on backwater Gulch for those who care. the Zerg really didnt expect me to hold it at the end lol
you placed the ff quite well.
I'm diamonad too but cant place it well as you 
you only used one cannon to hold it and just lost 1 gateway and few units(only zealot).
it is pretty nice hold.
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Well, here is my contribution. I know nobody will be satisfied until a build is made that has enough cannons and units to stop the roach/ling attack by Nestea.
Here is a replay of a build i am trying to refine.http://drop.sc/11047
I tried out a new idea of just taking probes off one gas in order to get some extra money to build cannons and the infrastructure a little faster.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WVAvN.jpg)
-I have about 5 stalkers, 5 sentries, and 2 cannons at around 7:45. Hallucination finishes at around 7:35, which barely gives time to scout. I guess if you don't scout the roach ling pressure, you can cancel the second cannon and build a gateway.
-I am aware that I cut probes and even one gateway.
-I also have only 5 sentries instead of 8 or 9
-The building placement isn't the best, but this is only the beginning of the refinement of this build.
Hopefully, a stronger player can add onto this idea to make a more refined build (I am only diamond).
I would like to know the weaknesses and downsides of what I am doing. Is this idea viable? If it isn't just tell me, so I can move onto the next idea.
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mmm the allin abuses the larger space at the expansions, and the fact that sentrys need alot of energy and can't fight on their own. Sound for me like a don't use sentrys ^^. I am not a grandmaster toss though, mostly switch races around to test stuffies and have fun. So the zergs i play aren't top level and might react poorly to different situations. (well from my experience almost everyone reacts poorly to strange strats, never played someone above low grandmaster though).
Well that is probably the reason why they play this allin even if they don't see the mass sentrys.
I generally go for fast immortals and +1 ground attack (I chrono that over the warp gate).
A zerg can run by easily against this army composition, but attack it directly with ling roach, not a chance (its heavy micro for the toss) (i use a few sentrys too, they are a perfect extra buff if you have a bit overgas). Just need to scout the zerg pretty well so you won't be suprised by mutas. (luckily an almost forgotten tech in tvz).
Its something for people that don't fear a basetrade ^^. (you are better off in this situation as toss).
it works well with my defensiv playstyle with thrown in harass. though it allows the opponent to eco alot and i don't know how bad this can end against really good zergs. (well they love to rally befor your base and if you fought them off nicely in the first round you can afford that evil warp prism)
But since i know when i play zerg that i love to pump lings after roaches saved up alot of larva and that roaches often end up killing the ling counters.
And if you love your sentrys and hate immortals because they allways shoot the lings. Maybe its a good idea to just throw in this +1 and cut 2 sentrys (gas a tiny bit later). Zerg will either need +1 armor or lots of roaches. And mass roach is a pretty old thing ^.^.
PS: the best thing is if the +1 finishes just in battle xD and the zerg didn't saw the upgrade and is like what just happened xD. 80% chance of getting imba flames !
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EPT
