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[G] Cfestival's Ghost Nuke Push - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Pocketsocks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States192 Posts
May 02 2011 21:33 GMT
#21
I would also like to note that Ghosts are very good vs Banshees because Banshees are light and EMP can de-cloak them.
When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, you will be successful.
Kukaracha
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France1954 Posts
May 02 2011 21:45 GMT
#22
How will this be if Ghosts become 200/100?
Le long pour l'un pour l'autre est court (le mot-à-mot du mot "amour").
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-02 21:47:21
May 02 2011 21:46 GMT
#23
Meant to edit my own post instead of making a new one
cfestival
Profile Joined April 2011
United States32 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-02 23:12:20
May 02 2011 21:48 GMT
#24
On May 03 2011 04:27 P00RKID wrote:
If anybody ends up getting a longer game with nukes vs tanks please post the replays, those are always entertaining. Does the OP have any good replays where you don't win outright from the rush, but still use nukes in mid or late game?


http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/171981-1v1-terran-shakuras-plateau

There's a game---I'm not putting it in the top part, because it's not using the ghost/nuke build.

edit: I just put it in the bonus section

This is pre-optimized, and I believe this was either a grudge match, or me helping someone...i really forget.

It's a good game with nukes vs tanks though (but I have my own tanks too)
Crytch
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany135 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-02 22:09:32
May 02 2011 22:08 GMT
#25
900 (/ 3600 last season) masterpoints player here (EU)

i love your build because i ♥ nukeplay, will try it tomorow and upload the replays

greetz
Crytch
You: Quick idra, answer this: 3 men walk into a bar. is one of them gay? EGIdrA: depends on whether or not anyone of them plays protoss
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-02 22:23:54
May 02 2011 22:22 GMT
#26
On May 03 2011 06:45 Kukaracha wrote:
How will this be if Ghosts become 200/100?

Imo it will be a huge change for after the initial push is done. You will have 100 more gas leftover to get medivacs/vikings/more ghosts.

This could be HUGE, because cloaked Banshees can rape this build if your Ghosts don't have enough energy and you have no turrets, which is likely when you are doing the inital push. You need Vikings to counter early Banshee play.
cfestival
Profile Joined April 2011
United States32 Posts
May 02 2011 22:51 GMT
#27
On May 03 2011 06:14 noobinator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 04:23 cfestival wrote:
On May 03 2011 00:47 graNite wrote:
I will definitly try it out. I hate TvT tankchess :/

I ran SCBuildorder and it gave me a much better Bo than yours:

+ Show Spoiler +
10 Supply Depot
12 Barracks (Naked)
13 Refinery
15 Move SCV To Gas
15 Move SCV To Gas
15 Move SCV To Gas
15 Orbital Command
15 Refinery
15 Marine
16 Move SCV To Gas
16 Move SCV To Gas
16 Barracks Tech Lab
16 Supply Depot
16 Move SCV To Gas

Waypoint 1 satisfied:
3:10.00: 55M 66G 50E 16/ 19S
Income: 297M 215G
Buildings: 2 Refinery 1 Barracks 1 Orbital Command
Units: 15 SCV 1 Marine
Research:

18 Calldown MULE
18 Reaper
20 Barracks (Naked)
21 Marine
24 Calldown MULE
24 Ghost Academy
24 Reaper
25 Factory (Naked)
25 Barracks Tech Lab
26 Supply Depot
27 Move SCV To Gas
28 Marauder
30 Ghost
32 Supply Depot
33 Arm Nuke
34 Ghost
36 Move SCV To Minerals
36 Hellion
38 Calldown MULE
38 Marauder
42 Lift Factory (Naked)
42 Move SCV To Gas

Waypoint 2 satisfied:
6:43.74: 432M 120G 20E 42/ 43S
Income: 988M 228G
Buildings: 2 Refinery 2 Barracks 1 Orbital Command 1 Ghost Academy 1 Factory 2 Tech Lab
Units: 27 SCV 2 Marine 2 Marauder 2 Reaper 2 Ghost 1 Hellion
Research:


Nice--the only thing i don't like, is the late Ghosts. By having the Ghosts out early, you get more energy for Snipe.


I agree with cfestival here. I'll run the bo through the program myself and see what I can do with it.

BETTER BO V4:
+ Show Spoiler +
10 Supply Depot
12 Barracks (Naked)
13 Refinery
15 Move SCV To Gas
15 Marine
16 Orbital Command
16 Move SCV To Gas
16 Move SCV To Gas
16 Supply Depot
16 Refinery
16 Barracks Tech Lab

Waypoint 1 satisfied:
3:10.00: 73M 46G 50E 16/ 19S
Income: 426M 114G
Buildings: 1 Refinery 1 Barracks 1 Orbital Command
Units: 15 SCV 1 Marine
Research:

17 Calldown MULE
17 Marauder
19 Move SCV To Gas
20 Move SCV To Gas
21 Marauder
23 Ghost Academy
23 Move SCV To Gas
24 Supply Depot
24 Move SCV To Gas
25 Ghost
28 Calldown MULE
30 Ghost
32 Factory (Naked)
32 Move SCV To Minerals
33 Supply Depot

Waypoint 2 satisfied:
5:54.73: 475M 107G 43E 34/ 35S
Income: 852M 215G
Buildings: 2 Refinery 1 Barracks 1 Orbital Command 1 Ghost Academy 1 Tech Lab
Units: 24 SCV 1 Marine 2 Marauder 2 Ghost
Research:

34 Reaper
36 Calldown MULE
37 Hellion
39 Supply Depot
39 Arm Nuke
40 Reaper
42 Hellion
44 Move SCV To Gas

Waypoint 3 satisfied:
7:24.90: 994M 236G 43E 45/ 51S
Income: 1000M 228G
Buildings: 2 Refinery 2 Barracks 1 Orbital Command 1 Ghost Academy 1 Factory 1 Tech Lab
Units: 29 SCV 1 Marine 2 Marauder 2 Reaper 2 Ghost 2 Hellion
Research:


In v4, your expo should start around 6 minutes. Once the Factory finishes, you have enough mins to build another Rax. At 7:30, about the time the nuke (still) finishes, I would suggest building a 3rd Rax or a Starport (I prefer the Starport, because it gets Vikings faster to counter Banshees). Build the other soon after.

Also, the Ghosts finish at about 6 minutes, which gives them ~2 minutes to charge their energy (including nuke production time and time required to land the nuke).

And now for some comparisons with the original, since the time the bo finishes is about the same:

Pros:

Expo comes much faster

2 Hellions are included in the initial push rather than one (the second would be more of a reinforcement though, since it finishes around 7:30)

Cons:

Only one Marine in the inital push (if there are too many Banshees, do as much eco damage as possible and make more Marines back at home out of all Rax)

Will edit if the program comes up with something faster.

EDIT: Doh, I forgot to check off constant SCV production >.>
Oh well, the bo it came up with now manages to sneak a 2nd hellion into the initial attack and constant SCV production at the cost of the Ghosts coming out slightly later.

EDIT 2: I realized the Marine was coming out last on V2. Took me a while to swap unit production and get a reaper out last. You'd think that it wouldn't take that long just to swap unit positions in the bo...


Do you have a replay with these builds? It's a lot easier for me to evaluate them that way.

What's the nuke timing (i see the supply, just wondering the time) on this? it seems a little late on the BO. The nuke timing is important, because if you wait too long, the enemy will have come to your base already, almost no matter his build.

You should be all the way at the enemy's base, ready to nuke, when the nuke is completing, at 7:30, this looks really close....if you have a replay with this, it'd be helpful.
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-02 23:32:59
May 02 2011 22:55 GMT
#28
On May 03 2011 07:51 cfestival wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 06:14 noobinator wrote:
On May 03 2011 04:23 cfestival wrote:
On May 03 2011 00:47 graNite wrote:
I will definitly try it out. I hate TvT tankchess :/

I ran SCBuildorder and it gave me a much better Bo than yours:

+ Show Spoiler +
10 Supply Depot
12 Barracks (Naked)
13 Refinery
15 Move SCV To Gas
15 Move SCV To Gas
15 Move SCV To Gas
15 Orbital Command
15 Refinery
15 Marine
16 Move SCV To Gas
16 Move SCV To Gas
16 Barracks Tech Lab
16 Supply Depot
16 Move SCV To Gas

Waypoint 1 satisfied:
3:10.00: 55M 66G 50E 16/ 19S
Income: 297M 215G
Buildings: 2 Refinery 1 Barracks 1 Orbital Command
Units: 15 SCV 1 Marine
Research:

18 Calldown MULE
18 Reaper
20 Barracks (Naked)
21 Marine
24 Calldown MULE
24 Ghost Academy
24 Reaper
25 Factory (Naked)
25 Barracks Tech Lab
26 Supply Depot
27 Move SCV To Gas
28 Marauder
30 Ghost
32 Supply Depot
33 Arm Nuke
34 Ghost
36 Move SCV To Minerals
36 Hellion
38 Calldown MULE
38 Marauder
42 Lift Factory (Naked)
42 Move SCV To Gas

Waypoint 2 satisfied:
6:43.74: 432M 120G 20E 42/ 43S
Income: 988M 228G
Buildings: 2 Refinery 2 Barracks 1 Orbital Command 1 Ghost Academy 1 Factory 2 Tech Lab
Units: 27 SCV 2 Marine 2 Marauder 2 Reaper 2 Ghost 1 Hellion
Research:


Nice--the only thing i don't like, is the late Ghosts. By having the Ghosts out early, you get more energy for Snipe.


I agree with cfestival here. I'll run the bo through the program myself and see what I can do with it.

BETTER BO V4:
+ Show Spoiler +
10 Supply Depot
12 Barracks (Naked)
13 Refinery
15 Move SCV To Gas
15 Marine
16 Orbital Command
16 Move SCV To Gas
16 Move SCV To Gas
16 Supply Depot
16 Refinery
16 Barracks Tech Lab

Waypoint 1 satisfied:
3:10.00: 73M 46G 50E 16/ 19S
Income: 426M 114G
Buildings: 1 Refinery 1 Barracks 1 Orbital Command
Units: 15 SCV 1 Marine
Research:

17 Calldown MULE
17 Marauder
19 Move SCV To Gas
20 Move SCV To Gas
21 Marauder
23 Ghost Academy
23 Move SCV To Gas
24 Supply Depot
24 Move SCV To Gas
25 Ghost
28 Calldown MULE
30 Ghost
32 Factory (Naked)
32 Move SCV To Minerals
33 Supply Depot

Waypoint 2 satisfied:
5:54.73: 475M 107G 43E 34/ 35S
Income: 852M 215G
Buildings: 2 Refinery 1 Barracks 1 Orbital Command 1 Ghost Academy 1 Tech Lab
Units: 24 SCV 1 Marine 2 Marauder 2 Ghost
Research:

34 Reaper
36 Calldown MULE
37 Hellion
39 Supply Depot
39 Arm Nuke
40 Reaper
42 Hellion
44 Move SCV To Gas

Waypoint 3 satisfied:
7:24.90: 994M 236G 43E 45/ 51S
Income: 1000M 228G
Buildings: 2 Refinery 2 Barracks 1 Orbital Command 1 Ghost Academy 1 Factory 1 Tech Lab
Units: 29 SCV 1 Marine 2 Marauder 2 Reaper 2 Ghost 2 Hellion
Research:


In v4, your expo should start around 6 minutes. Once the Factory finishes, you have enough mins to build another Rax. At 7:30, about the time the nuke (still) finishes, I would suggest building a 3rd Rax or a Starport (I prefer the Starport, because it gets Vikings faster to counter Banshees). Build the other soon after.

Also, the Ghosts finish at about 6 minutes, which gives them ~2 minutes to charge their energy (including nuke production time and time required to land the nuke).

And now for some comparisons with the original, since the time the bo finishes is about the same:

Pros:

Expo comes much faster

2 Hellions are included in the initial push rather than one (the second would be more of a reinforcement though, since it finishes around 7:30)

Cons:

Only one Marine in the inital push (if there are too many Banshees, do as much eco damage as possible and make more Marines back at home out of all Rax)

Will edit if the program comes up with something faster.

EDIT: Doh, I forgot to check off constant SCV production >.>
Oh well, the bo it came up with now manages to sneak a 2nd hellion into the initial attack and constant SCV production at the cost of the Ghosts coming out slightly later.

EDIT 2: I realized the Marine was coming out last on V2. Took me a while to swap unit production and get a reaper out last. You'd think that it wouldn't take that long just to swap unit positions in the bo...


Do you have a replay with these builds? It's a lot easier for me to evaluate them that way.

What's the nuke timing (i see the supply, just wondering the time) on this? it seems a little late on the BO. The nuke timing is important, because if you wait too long, the enemy will have come to your base already, almost no matter his build.

You should be all the way at the enemy's base, ready to nuke, when the nuke is completing, at 7:30, this looks really close....if you have a replay with this, it'd be helpful.

Thanks for the feedback. The nuke finishes at about 7:30, almost exactly the same timing as before, probably a little earlier.

I'll play a couple of games against an easy AI, but they won't be perfect execution of the bo.

First Replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?87d19qhvj8808ni
Second Replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?fldh7o7avhrawnh
cfestival
Profile Joined April 2011
United States32 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-02 23:09:47
May 02 2011 23:07 GMT
#29
On May 03 2011 07:55 noobinator wrote:

I agree with cfestival here. I'll run the bo through the program myself and see what I can do with it.

BETTER BO V4:
+ Show Spoiler +
10 Supply Depot
12 Barracks (Naked)
13 Refinery
15 Move SCV To Gas
15 Marine
16 Orbital Command
16 Move SCV To Gas
16 Move SCV To Gas
16 Supply Depot
16 Refinery
16 Barracks Tech Lab

Waypoint 1 satisfied:
3:10.00: 73M 46G 50E 16/ 19S
Income: 426M 114G
Buildings: 1 Refinery 1 Barracks 1 Orbital Command
Units: 15 SCV 1 Marine
Research:

17 Calldown MULE
17 Marauder
19 Move SCV To Gas
20 Move SCV To Gas
21 Marauder
23 Ghost Academy
23 Move SCV To Gas
24 Supply Depot
24 Move SCV To Gas
25 Ghost
28 Calldown MULE
30 Ghost
32 Factory (Naked)
32 Move SCV To Minerals
33 Supply Depot

Waypoint 2 satisfied:
5:54.73: 475M 107G 43E 34/ 35S
Income: 852M 215G
Buildings: 2 Refinery 1 Barracks 1 Orbital Command 1 Ghost Academy 1 Tech Lab
Units: 24 SCV 1 Marine 2 Marauder 2 Ghost
Research:

34 Reaper
36 Calldown MULE
37 Hellion
39 Supply Depot
39 Arm Nuke
40 Reaper
42 Hellion
44 Move SCV To Gas

Waypoint 3 satisfied:
7:24.90: 994M 236G 43E 45/ 51S
Income: 1000M 228G
Buildings: 2 Refinery 2 Barracks 1 Orbital Command 1 Ghost Academy 1 Factory 1 Tech Lab
Units: 29 SCV 1 Marine 2 Marauder 2 Reaper 2 Ghost 2 Hellion
Research:


Thanks for the feedback. The nuke finishes at about 7:30, almost exactly the same timing as before, probably a little earlier.

I'll play a couple of games against an easy AI, but they won't be perfect execution of the bo.

I'll edit this post with the replays later



I just noticed---when is the second barracks built?

I didn't see it in the build order, but it has 2 barracks at the bottom.
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-02 23:32:43
May 02 2011 23:32 GMT
#30
On May 03 2011 08:07 cfestival wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 07:55 noobinator wrote:

I agree with cfestival here. I'll run the bo through the program myself and see what I can do with it.

BETTER BO V4:
+ Show Spoiler +
10 Supply Depot
12 Barracks (Naked)
13 Refinery
15 Move SCV To Gas
15 Marine
16 Orbital Command
16 Move SCV To Gas
16 Move SCV To Gas
16 Supply Depot
16 Refinery
16 Barracks Tech Lab

Waypoint 1 satisfied:
3:10.00: 73M 46G 50E 16/ 19S
Income: 426M 114G
Buildings: 1 Refinery 1 Barracks 1 Orbital Command
Units: 15 SCV 1 Marine
Research:

17 Calldown MULE
17 Marauder
19 Move SCV To Gas
20 Move SCV To Gas
21 Marauder
23 Ghost Academy
23 Move SCV To Gas
24 Supply Depot
24 Move SCV To Gas
25 Ghost
28 Calldown MULE
30 Ghost
32 Factory (Naked)
32 Move SCV To Minerals
33 Supply Depot

Waypoint 2 satisfied:
5:54.73: 475M 107G 43E 34/ 35S
Income: 852M 215G
Buildings: 2 Refinery 1 Barracks 1 Orbital Command 1 Ghost Academy 1 Tech Lab
Units: 24 SCV 1 Marine 2 Marauder 2 Ghost
Research:

34 Reaper
36 Calldown MULE
37 Hellion
39 Supply Depot
39 Arm Nuke
40 Reaper
42 Hellion
44 Move SCV To Gas

Waypoint 3 satisfied:
7:24.90: 994M 236G 43E 45/ 51S
Income: 1000M 228G
Buildings: 2 Refinery 2 Barracks 1 Orbital Command 1 Ghost Academy 1 Factory 1 Tech Lab
Units: 29 SCV 1 Marine 2 Marauder 2 Reaper 2 Ghost 2 Hellion
Research:


Thanks for the feedback. The nuke finishes at about 7:30, almost exactly the same timing as before, probably a little earlier.

I'll play a couple of games against an easy AI, but they won't be perfect execution of the bo.

I'll edit this post with the replays later



I just noticed---when is the second barracks built?

I didn't see it in the build order, but it has 2 barracks at the bottom.

I took it out cause I noticed it interfered with the timing a little.

My second replay has better timing, and I could've gotten the nuke dropped way earlier if I noticed how fast it finishes. I almost never play with nukes, so I haven't quite memorized how long it takes to make one.

First Replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?87d19qhvj8808ni
Second Replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?fldh7o7avhrawnh
Homework
Profile Joined December 2010
United States283 Posts
May 02 2011 23:55 GMT
#31
This build looks strong!
I usually main zerg, but offrace terran sometimes. I'll see what I can do about trying this out on people in the Gold league. XD
We shall see..
cfestival
Profile Joined April 2011
United States32 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-03 01:35:34
May 03 2011 00:50 GMT
#32
On May 03 2011 08:55 Homework wrote:
This build looks strong!
I usually main zerg, but offrace terran sometimes. I'll see what I can do about trying this out on people in the Gold league. XD
We shall see..


Going up and down the ladders, it decimated anyone mid Platinum and below.

On May 03 2011 08:32 noobinator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 08:07 cfestival wrote:
I just noticed---when is the second barracks built?

I didn't see it in the build order, but it has 2 barracks at the bottom.

I took it out cause I noticed it interfered with the timing a little.

My second replay has better timing, and I could've gotten the nuke dropped way earlier if I noticed how fast it finishes. I almost never play with nukes, so I haven't quite memorized how long it takes to make one.

First Replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?87d19qhvj8808ni
Second Replay: http://www.mediafire.com/?fldh7o7avhrawnh


I watched the replays, and I like using the barracks before the Ghosts are ready to come out. The 1 barracks part sorta worries me a little though, because if the nuke results in you being ahead only a little bit, and the enemy is able to "fend off" the initial push, then you might fall behind in production for the second wave.

Additionally, the Ghosts are about 30 seconds behind, which results in a few less snipes....however, it hits sooner, so the enemy will have less men also.

This definitely is a good start for opening up the build though.

Have you tried using the build vs anyone yet? I recommend trying out both builds (cause I cant play anymore tonight, I'll try later on this week), and seeing how it fairs... paying attention especially to the transitional portion of it.
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10383 Posts
May 03 2011 01:49 GMT
#33
Thanks for sharing, I like the diversity of the units and how you get 2 of each (except the hellion). So basically, it is a micro-intensive build order :D :D :D

This is gonna be really fun, this reminds me of Hyperdub's nuke rush in GSL against MMA (Code A, GSL May)
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-03 01:53:40
May 03 2011 01:50 GMT
#34
On May 03 2011 09:50 cfestival wrote:
I watched the replays, and I like using the barracks before the Ghosts are ready to come out. The 1 barracks part sorta worries me a little though, because if the nuke results in you being ahead only a little bit, and the enemy is able to "fend off" the initial push, then you might fall behind in production for the second wave.

Additionally, the Ghosts are about 30 seconds behind, which results in a few less snipes....however, it hits sooner, so the enemy will have less men also.

This definitely is a good start for opening up the build though.

Have you tried using the build vs anyone yet? I recommend trying out both builds (cause I cant play anymore tonight, I'll try later on this week), and seeing how it fairs... paying attention especially to the transitional portion of it.

Going 1rax allows you to get an expand faster. Maybe I could add bunkers as I'm getting my expo so I can defend if the initial push fails. It should be fairly easy to find out whether or not you'll win the battle anyways, so you can retreat with at least your reapers and hellions. Also, I wouldn't normally favor using the factory much more in this bo, but in the case of failure making more hellions because of the lack of production would be great.

So basically it's either 2nd Rax then expand or expand then 2nd Rax. It's a matter of preference (getting greedy with eco or playing it safe with more production).

Also, the reason I'm trading snipes for time is because of less time for the opponent to react (if they scout what you're doing, ofc), less time for an FE to kick in, and possibly other things I can't think of atm.

I haven't actually played against any real opponents yet, but I'll do it when I get the chance. Anything to make a good nuke rush bo, especially to make TvT less broken/full of unit spamming.
cfestival
Profile Joined April 2011
United States32 Posts
May 03 2011 14:11 GMT
#35
On May 03 2011 10:50 noobinator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 09:50 cfestival wrote:
I watched the replays, and I like using the barracks before the Ghosts are ready to come out. The 1 barracks part sorta worries me a little though, because if the nuke results in you being ahead only a little bit, and the enemy is able to "fend off" the initial push, then you might fall behind in production for the second wave.

Additionally, the Ghosts are about 30 seconds behind, which results in a few less snipes....however, it hits sooner, so the enemy will have less men also.

This definitely is a good start for opening up the build though.

Have you tried using the build vs anyone yet? I recommend trying out both builds (cause I cant play anymore tonight, I'll try later on this week), and seeing how it fairs... paying attention especially to the transitional portion of it.

Going 1rax allows you to get an expand faster. Maybe I could add bunkers as I'm getting my expo so I can defend if the initial push fails. It should be fairly easy to find out whether or not you'll win the battle anyways, so you can retreat with at least your reapers and hellions. Also, I wouldn't normally favor using the factory much more in this bo, but in the case of failure making more hellions because of the lack of production would be great.

So basically it's either 2nd Rax then expand or expand then 2nd Rax. It's a matter of preference (getting greedy with eco or playing it safe with more production).

Also, the reason I'm trading snipes for time is because of less time for the opponent to react (if they scout what you're doing, ofc), less time for an FE to kick in, and possibly other things I can't think of atm.

I haven't actually played against any real opponents yet, but I'll do it when I get the chance. Anything to make a good nuke rush bo, especially to make TvT less broken/full of unit spamming.


Yeah, I guess it's up to your play style, for what happens after the nuke.

I like to keep a constant pressure, as I'm expanding. I think a bunker would work, unless he has tanks already---which would then make it both Banshees AND tanks that the build is weak to.

But I guess it'd be viable if you did the early expo into mech or air play. We need to develop it a little more, as far as extending the build into the next tier for your 1 rax expo. It's certainly interesting. I'd like to see how it plays out. This would certainly be sweet if it were like two builds for this early nuke play----I can see it going that way, like, 2 rax for bio, 1 rax for mech/air. The timing seems almost there for that.
rebotfc
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom144 Posts
May 03 2011 14:21 GMT
#36
Do you have any replays vs fast banshees? I'm having quite a bit of trouble as after I bust the wall the opponent has 2 banshees which focus fire the ghost and 2 marines.
cfestival
Profile Joined April 2011
United States32 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-03 17:43:50
May 03 2011 16:10 GMT
#37
On May 03 2011 23:21 rebotfc wrote:
Do you have any replays vs fast banshees? I'm having quite a bit of trouble as after I bust the wall the opponent has 2 banshees which focus fire the ghost and 2 marines.


Banshees are the bane to this build.

Here's a 1 port Banshee play, but his Banshees aren't really effective:

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/172282-1v1-terran-gutterhulk

But 2 port Banshees sorta suck. This is why I recommend going engineering bay. After/during the initial push, if you scout any sort of Banshee play.

You could also get a starport and a barracks, and do a transition that way (giving you 3 barracks, 1 factory, 1 starport) into regular bio. That may help.

If you want, we can practice it (if you're on the NA server). I sorta need someone to test out the other variants of the build too, as suggested earlier in the thread.

edit: Remember, sometimes you'll bust down the wall, but have scanned it's NOT ok to just watlz in. It's ok to regress back a little, build up a little more forces, and go again.....by that time, you'll have another nuke too.

edit again: ugh...just got pwned by a 2 port....I could have won, but I wasted the nuke on an UNGUARDED ramp wall. It was actually really close, but there was a more much tastier target inside, that would have stopped all banshee production, and taken out 4 supply depots =P

I also messed up on the build, which gave me 3 ghosts, instead of 2. This was because he reapered inside first, and threw off the building timings.
Crytch
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany135 Posts
May 03 2011 16:36 GMT
#38
I think non-walled early tanks are bane to this build to.
You scan his choke and see some marines / mb with bunker, and a siegetank.

Then you have to place your nuke that the tank cant hit your ghost. He unsieges, go back in his base, the nuke doesnt even kill the bunker cause it doesnt take 100% of the damage, your enemy sieges back and repair his bunker, and you did 0 dmg (and the 2. tank should pop out right now).

If you push in while his tank is still in his base he will just siege where his tank is currently, and his second tank is allrdy sieged anywhere inbase, he counterrepair his tank and you loose all your units.

If you just go back you are technological behind, that your enemy just can go whatever he want.
You: Quick idra, answer this: 3 men walk into a bar. is one of them gay? EGIdrA: depends on whether or not anyone of them plays protoss
cfestival
Profile Joined April 2011
United States32 Posts
May 03 2011 16:47 GMT
#39
On May 04 2011 01:36 Crytch wrote:
I think non-walled early tanks are bane to this build to.
You scan his choke and see some marines / mb with bunker, and a siegetank.

Then you have to place your nuke that the tank cant hit your ghost. He unsieges, go back in his base, the nuke doesnt even kill the bunker cause it doesnt take 100% of the damage, your enemy sieges back and repair his bunker, and you did 0 dmg (and the 2. tank should pop out right now).

If you push in while his tank is still in his base he will just siege where his tank is currently, and his second tank is allrdy sieged anywhere inbase, he counterrepair his tank and you loose all your units.

If you just go back you are technological behind, that your enemy just can go whatever he want.


For early tanks, I just stay outside his base and grab my natural, and continue on regular. He can't come out cause he doesn't have support from his infantry (they'll be sniped very hard).

During the initial push, I'm making my factory tech lab, especially for tanks.

You can use the two Reapers that you have to do a little bit of harass, to make sure he stays in his base....or as a distraction so you can move in with your initial push forces + 1st round of reinforcements (don't lose your Reapers if you can, just do a quick kill 1-2 SCVs and get out).

Once your expo is up, and you have your tank coming (and are building more production buildings), you should be able to do a tank push on him with the nukes. Just don't get greedy and try to go all in.
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 00:54:23
May 03 2011 19:19 GMT
#40
I lost to an FE into tons of Rax.

Using my version of the bo, I had 1 rine 1 rauder and 1 ghost by the time the first attack of ~10 rines came. It worked like a charm, but I couldn't harass him at ALL until I got cloak. There were simply too many targets to snipe, as well as the bunkers which I obviously can't snipe. If I tried to nuke the bunkers, my opponent would've just ran up and killed the Ghost.

I eventually lost from being overpowered by the sheer number of rax he had because I tried to go for bio instead of tanks.

Imo if your opponent got tanks before you, go for bio or air. If your opponent doesn't have any tanks yet, get tanks (except against 2port banshees or iechoic's bo, you need vikings early to handle them if you don't end the game quickly enough).

Also, I forgot to save the replay, so the autosave got deleted

I think it was a TvT-ized version of this bo.
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