On April 08 2011 11:11 Saracen wrote: For those of you posting [H]/[L] threads:
If you do not post a replay, you will be BANNED.
If you do not attempt to analyze your game, you will be BANNED.
If I watch your replay and there are obvious flaws (macro, micro, etc.) in your game that contribute to your loss, you will be BANNED (Hint: read the Analyzing Replays thread and the How to Improve thread). Why? Because if you care enough about your gameplay to clutter up the Strategy Forum with another [H] thread, then you care enough to spend time by yourself to actually improve.
Could someone clear up the meaning of this to me, I think i may be missing something. If there I don't understand why I lost due to strange circumstances (more spending in every area than opponent, split battles, teched better than opponent, comparable micro to opponent), then I cannot post because my macro was not up to the appropriate level? If so, does this not obviate the whole concept of [L] threads?
Basically, is there a minimum skill limit for posters in strategy?
If you had read the part that comes after "Why?" it would have been clear to you why this is necessary. If you can't look at your own game and realize your faults why should someone do it for you? This forces users to be less dependant on others which is good thing for everyone.
On April 09 2011 15:01 AMW1011 wrote: I'm going to be honest. I want to become part of this community, I really do. However, I read this and the rules, they seem to make sense and I can relate with my large experience with various forums. Some seem a bit extreme, if not childishly so, but I realize that there is probably a good reason for them. Then I go read the first three threads in the Stradegy forum, and each one has at least one ban. I see people get warned for correct information because the post was short and sweet. I see people get warned for asking questions that have relevancy and can be taken in a way that makes sense, or can be a trollish post, depending on how it was meant.
I pride myself on my maturity, and quality of content in my posts. Is this a good community? I feel like my first impression can't really be how this place is, I've heard way too much good about it. I guess I'm in the same boat as Zachatron.
I think this is is like, emergency, temporary martial law. Hence the title "purge" and not "we're going to be this extremely strict forever now, get used to it." So stick around--for the flowers of good strategy to start emerging out of the decomposing bodies of noobs :D
Your metaphor both disturbs me and fills me with hope.
I expect, regarding the initial thing, that it is really just to cut down on the vast majority of "why did I lose this?" threads where it is obvious within 10 seconds that the person produced 4 drones over the entire game and attacked into siege lines.
After sleeping on it, I woke up and felt 2 things: 1. This is like Rekrul reincarnated, only now the flock of sheep to slaughter amongst is 20x bigger. 2. This initiative gives me the warm, bloodlusty feeling in my heart, that usually only the Automated Ban List thread gives. I'm loving it. Thanks Saracen for bringing joy to my morning coffee moments again!
I had a feeling that one of the guidelines of the TL forum is that your ladder ranking does not matter and everyone has a chance to ask what they need to or wants to ask?
Although the standards of TL forums are getting out of hand. I do not understand why the mods are beginning to judge people using personal standards? If threads are closed and people banned at the whims of our mods, the forum will be solely reflecting the views of our mods on what is good and what is wrong. Even though the world is meritocratic and pragmatic, higher-ranked echelons can get their opinions across the table and accepted more easily, and views by less able people will not be taken into serious consideration(except when its really ingenious or unique, and correct)
We are also discriminating against people with lower skills and experience although mods and other members always add footnotes/extra brackets that they are meant for all TL members and would not be discriminating, the content of the post/thread would clearly suggest that people with less experience and skill should be keeping quiet and listening to the opinions of other skilled players.
With the new addtion of these rules, I think the discrimination of lower leagued players/less experienced/skilled players has gone into overdrive. The mods are using their experience to decern of whether a question or advice is accurate or not; although the act of regulating the quality of the advice given is driven from a positive side, but this will inadvertently create discrimination between members in TL, more skilled/experienced members: allowed to post and discuss freely, voice out opinions(correct ones); less skilled/experienced members not allowed to post, blocked in discussions and only allow to listen in and learn from skilled members.
The act of moderating forums is actually an act of discrimination(even if it is much needed to filter out junk), mods can choose what is "good" by their standards and what is "not good" and now the free closing of threads and posts and banning of members can be freely exceuted by mods using a "relative" method of determining of what is good and what is not. Different things apply to various individuals in a differing way, and what is deemed "not good" by the mod could actually be helpful to certain individuals depending on the situation.
Although learning from other more skilled members is good, but the process of only listening is definitely obstructive to individual learning and advancement. Problems that apply to others may not apply to you and vice versa. So the learning scopes of less skilled members will be limited.
I am just putting this forward for the enitre TL community: Do we want full-fledged elitism in TL forums, seperating members into more skilled/experienced and less skilled/experienced and allowing different access on posting in stratagy forums and help forums for members? Or would we rather have a open community where all TL members can put forward their viewpoints anytime, anywhere on any topic they would like to discuss on; regardless on their B.net league ranking or experience or seniority on the forums? Obviously, there is no intermediate choice or solution, as the semi-elitism/semi-opened forum has resulted in today's state.
If full-fledged elitism is to be put forward as TL's future, the more skilled players will be pleased, unsurprisingly; as the removal of "noob" and "useless opinions" on TL will definitely benefit them to a certain extent. But the expulsion of less able members and beginners will result in their learning curve being steepened due to the removal of members able to coach and point out flaws in them. This change in elitism can be done by the mods in quite a short time, but the reluctance to do so is just to allow slight freedom of speech regulated by numerous rules and conditions that are "harsh". Either you get it right, and you can remain here for the next post; or you will get banned/closed. All in one judgement.
So I call for all TL members to be self-disciplined and be responsible for their own actions for this forum to become a better place for other members. Less skilled members can check for answers to their questions before putting it forward as a new thread and more skilled members should also accomodate the less skilled members as everyone needs to learn, no matter where it starts, all skilled players also has had a humble beginning and skilled players should not look down on beginners just because of the fact that they have more experience. If everybody can think through and be a more responsible member online, have the self-discipline to supervise their own actions and ensure that their actions do not cause inconvenience and frustration to others, have the proper conduct to put forward all their opinions in a more poilte, friendly manner, TL would be a much better place for all members and could become more of a open online forum. ONLY IF everyone makes the effort collectively to make TL a un-modded forum with minimal trolling/flaming etc. IT STARTS FROM US. FROM ME. YOU MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
If you give incorrect advice, you will be BANNED. If you aren't sure whether or not you should be giving advice, then don't. That doesn't mean don't give advice if you're not masters. But anyone (masters included) giving advice better be pretty damn sure of their advice before they give it. (B.net league placements aren't that relevant. Your diamond top spot doesn't mean anything)[Strategy Forum Guidelines: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113479］ If your thread doesn't apply at a high enough level, it will be CLOSED.
EDIT: if you bothered to read this, please tell me you care
Majordomo Executus yells: Imprudent whelps! You've rushed headlong to your own deaths! See now, the master stirs! Majordomo Executus yells: Behold Ragnaros - the Firelord! He who was ancient when this world was young! Bow before him, mortals! Bow before your ending! Ragnaros yells: TOO SOON! YOU HAVE AWAKENED ME TOO SOON, EXECUTUS! WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THIS INTRUSION? Majordomo Executus yells: These mortal infidels, my lord! They have invaded your sanctum and seek to steal your secrets! Ragnaros yells: FOOL! YOU ALLOWED THESE INSECTS TO RUN RAMPANT THROUGH THE HALLOW CORE? AND NOW YOU LEAD THEM TO MY VERY LAIR? YOU HAVE FAILED ME, EXECUTUS! JUSTICE SHALL BE MET, INDEED! Ragnaros kills Executus. Ragnaros yells: NOW FOR YOU, INSECTS! BOLDLY, YOU SOUGHT THE POWER OF RAGNAROS. NOW YOU SHALL SEE IT FIRSTHAND!
On April 08 2011 11:35 redFF wrote: Lol now im terrified to post in the strat forum.
Excellent
Not a good thing, IMO.
it is since it makes people think twice if their thread/post really is needed/contributing and makes em put more effort in new threads.
i pretty much never checked the strat forum cause 99% was worthless "didnt watch replay but lol get X noob" and now visit it evryday to see how things go.
This had to be done. Without a voting system to let the TL community decide which post a relevant and which are immaterial, it will be up to the Mods to be the law of the land. Good luck with this!
why is it teamliquid feels like a dictatorship nowadays? say one word about the administration or how things are run here and youre out.. im scared to reply to threads nowadays cause I might get banned because i broke one of the 5 million rules. :S
On April 10 2011 00:14 Mettyman wrote: why is it teamliquid feels like a dictatorship nowadays? say one word about the administration or how things are run here and youre out.. im scared to reply to threads nowadays cause I might get banned because i broke one of the 5 million rules. :S
actually TL got way more relaxed on many many things compared to back before the flood of 2010.
this here in the strat forum is a special thing and very needed so the forum actually can serve its purpose (which isnt to spam,post balance whines in disguise or let other people do the work for you).
if the demand is so high then maybe we need a low level subforum with different rules but ill promise you no one decent will ever enter that.
TL is what it is (and its the best gaming related website ive seen in like 13 years of internet) cause the moderation is so good and sometimes strict. and if you dont do stupid stuff the chance of getting banned is very small.
if you are scared to post here now then see ask yourself why are you scared? maybe because you know your post might not be worth a read/helpful? and what do you prefer to read. threads where actual analysis and tips are the norm or tons of spam threads you saw 50 times already with 70% of the posts beeing some "get nydus lol" crap?
If I watch your replay and there are obvious flaws (macro, micro, etc.) in your game that contribute to your loss, you will be BANNED (Hint: read the Analyzing Replays thread and the How to Improve thread). Why? Because if you care enough about your gameplay to clutter up the Strategy Forum with another [H] thread, then you care enough to spend time by yourself to actually improve.
This is the only one I'm really concerned about, I mean, granted this is a higher level Strategy forum; however, even Master league players will forget to make workers at times, or get supply blocked, and of course either of those two things will contribute to the loss; however, I didn't think it'd be such a horrible offense after posting the replay and giving an in-depth analysis of the replay that just because our probes and pylons isn't day9 that we get banned?
If this is the case, could you at least make a stickied thread much like the simple question simple answer where novices can post their replays and ask for help?
I'm actually looking forward to lurking the strat forums in the future! I hope all the pros see this and decide it's worth their time again to post here. Good luck guys, it's gonna be a tough transition back.
EPT
