• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 16:19
CET 22:19
KST 06:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Clem wins HomeStory Cup 286HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win2RSL Season 4 announced for March-April7Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Clem wins HomeStory Cup 28 HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction StarCraft 2 Not at the Esports World Cup 2026 Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win
Tourneys
HomeStory Cup 28 $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026 RSL Season 4 announced for March-April PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report
Brood War
General
StarCraft player reflex TE scores [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Can someone share very abbreviated BW cliffnotes? 2024 BoxeR's birthday message Liquipedia.net NEEDS editors for Brood War
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Diablo 2 thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread EVE Corporation Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Play, Watch, Drink: Esports …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1440 users

[G]TLAF-Liquid`Tyler's Double Forge PvT

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
iamke55
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
United States2806 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-29 22:32:14
March 29 2011 21:37 GMT
#1
Written by Iamke55 and CecilSunkure


Overview
By utilizing chronoboost it is possible to finish +2 Weapons and +2 Armor early in the game at a time when Terrans can only have +1 Weapons and/or armor. The combination of upgrades and Guardian Shield makes gateway units incredibly durable against the ranged attacks of Terran bio units.

With this build you will open up with a standard 2 or 3 Gate Robo expand followed by two Forges for access to quick upgrades. The strong foundation you have in upgraded Gateway units gives you several options in the mid game.

This build was created by TLAF-Liquid`Tyler, who recently defeated TLAF-Liquid`Jinro with it at PAX East.

Cecil's notes for this build:
+ Show Spoiler +
9 Pylon
13 Gateway
15 Assimilator
16 Pylon
Zealot + Assim @ Core Finishes
Chrono Stalker @ Core Finish
Sentry
Robo @ 100 gas
Gateway
3rd gate @ robo finish
Warp in 2-3 sentry
Nexus @ 400 minerals
2 forge @ nex 50%
Nat assims + twilight @ 50% upgrades
Support bay after 2-2
colo + range immediately
Add 2 gateways (might need these earlier if macro is poor)
*Units should constantly be being produced from your gateways with no down-time.
If you cannot do this on your own, add on one or two more gateways
when you money gets high.

Opening Build
You start with a 3 Gate Robo expand.
  • 9 Pylon
  • 13 Gateway
  • 14 Assimilator
  • 16 Pylon
  • @100 Gateway: Cybernetics Core
  • @100 minerals: Zealot
  • @75 minerals: 2nd Assimilator
  • @100% Cybernetics Core: Stalker, Warpgate
  • 25 Pylon
  • 2 Sentries from 1st Gateway
  • 30 Robotics Facility
  • 2nd Gateway, Pylon, 3rd Gateway all when you have enough minerals
  • @100% Robotics Facility: Observer
  • Warp in 2 Sentries once Warpgate research is done
  • 44 Nexus
  • @300 minerals: 2x Forge, make sure to stop boosting probes
  • @100% 2x Forge: +1 Weapons, +1 Armor

You can do a double Forge build off of any fast Robo opening, so I’ll use a 3 Gate Robo in this guide because I already wrote one about 2 Gate Robo and this is TLAF-Liquid`Tyler’s preferred opening. By getting a Zealot before the Cybernetics Core is done and getting a 3rd Gateway, you will be able to expand pretty early without getting an Immortal**. The 2 Forges are made when you would normally tech to Colossus: your observer has enough info for you to know that you won’t die to a 1 base all-in. Incidentally, getting 2x Forge and +1/+1 is actually cheaper than getting a Robotics Bay and 1 Colossus by 200 gas. The disadvantage is that the going double Forge takes about a minute longer to finish 1/1 whereas an early Colossus would come about a minute earlier.

**I advise skipping Immortals entirely; getting more Gateway units is far better against drops, as splitting an army in half when Immortals are being used harms a Protoss army much more than splitting one up into several places if it relies on numerous Gateway units -Immortals need support or large numbers to be effective.

Once you’re almost done with this part of the build, your Observer will usually see an expansion and Bunkers (if not then you may have to abandon the build). This is your cue to take map control with your army and secure watch towers.

Midgame Build
  • Constant Chrono Boosts on upgrades
  • @8-10 gas units, produce exclusively Zealots
  • 70 Twilight Council, expansion Assimilators (upgrades should be at 70%)
  • @100% upgrades: +2 Weapons, +2 Armor
  • 90 Robotics Bay
  • @100% Robotics Bay: Colossus, Extended Thermal Lance
  • 4th and 5th Gateways, can start making stalkers again
  • From here, you need to pretty much never miss a Chrono Boost on Colossus

On 2 bases, the most efficient probe count to income ratio is between 48 and 52. It’s not necessary to create more probes until you are building a 3rd Nexus, at which point you Chrono Boost them and probably get +3/+3 as well to prepare for the late game.

+1/+1 upgrades tend to finish at 10:00. If you can it's best to engage after these finish!

The Robotics Bay can be gotten earlier if you make fewer gas units.

At 14:30, your 3rd Colossus should pop and Extended Thermal Lance is done so this is a good time to attack. From here you either win the game outright as in TLAF-Liquid`Tyler vs TLAF-Liquid`Jinro, or put on enough pressure to get a 3rd base. If you attack any later than this timing, then you should be taking a faster 3rd base and getting charge/blink, and even +3/+3 upgrades if you attack significantly later.

Once you get past mid game, you’re in the same position or better compared to standard play so refer to my PvT guide for late game play, engagement tactics, and defensive positioning.

Variations

You can skip the Robotics Bay and just mass Gateway units while getting charge/blink and +3/+3 upgrades. You add a 2nd Robotics Facility for Colossi once you have 3 bases running. Doing this and adding Immortals is pretty strong against 1/1/1 expand builds.

You can go double Forge from any opening as long as your opponent isn’t doing a 1 base all-in, so 2 Gate Robo, 3 Gate openers, and 1 Gate Nexus can all work.

There is also the option to just do a standard Colossus build and just make two Forges when you would normally make one. It’s slightly less safe than standard Colossus play and this build, but it gives you the strongest army later on for sure. Open up the spoiler on greedy variation in my thread to see how this works. This is the preferred build of WhiteRa and ZeeRax.

Strengths

  • Focusing on early upgrades and delaying your tech sets you up for late game incredibly well.
  • Having really buff Gateway units quickly make warp-ins much stronger against drops.
  • Upgrades are very effective against 1/1/1 expand openings as they often go biomech, which is too diverse a unit composition to match your upgrades.
  • The +2/+2 upgrades finish early enough to do a very strong mid-game push with Thermal Lance, as seen in our VOD of Liquid Tyler.
Weaknesses
  • If a Terran blindly guesses that you’re not going to be aggressive, he can skip Bunkers and possibly take advantage of a lack of aggression on part of the Protoss.
  • The delayed Colossus means you might have trouble holding off Ghost timing attacks where the Terran expands and then makes 5 Barracks. Again though, the Terran has to guess you’re doing this instead of the standard fast Colossus build.
Replays/VODs

TLAF-Liquid`Tyler vs TLAF-Liquid`Jinro - Double Forge vs MM fast expo


  • EGiNcontroL vs Fenix - Double Forge vs 1/1/1 expo into biomech
During practice session, I discovered very good build against zerg. -Bisu[Shield]
dafnay
Profile Joined May 2010
Angola375 Posts
March 29 2011 21:48 GMT
#2
Using this build for a long time and I have to admit it's very very strong , when i can execute it properly i win easily 75% of my games.

I think one of the weaknesses is that its pretty hard to stop drops since you only have zealots , sentries and some precious stalkers , so youre army isnt very mobile.
CaptainHaz
Profile Joined December 2010
United States240 Posts
March 29 2011 21:52 GMT
#3
Always quality stuff from you sir. This clears up a lot of the timings I was curious about. I assumed the double forge came after adding on the additional gateways. Thanks again, hope you get blue'd. This seems like really stable play vs midgame MM, and can transition well into just about anything involving a ground base army. The ghost pushes seem like an issue that can be overcome if you cut probes appropriately when you spot it to get out additional units.

Bookmarked.

Thanks ♥
All of us warned you of the big white face.
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-29 22:31:38
March 29 2011 22:19 GMT
#4
Good strat.
I especially think this is strong on bigger maps with some more space between the expansions. The traditional colossus style can be exploited by good terrans on those maps because multiple drops are really problematic to defend with colossi, you simply can't split up armies with colossi as well as pure gateway armies. Upgraded warpins are also much better of course.
A key thing in this strat is getting blink in time imo as that really is key to be able to stop kiting and drops, which can often make it possible to get a quick third which is the real strength of this strategy imo. Especially as gas #3 and #4 aren't really needed often with this build you can really get that third base quickly to get that mineral economy going well.

I'm really wondering myself if somehow the early robo can't be cut completely from this build. It is quite an expensive building and all it is used for is observers and the potential to create quick immortals/colossi if needed. Most of the time it is just sitting there doing nothing. I wonder if you're going forges anyway if cannons couldn't be just as adequate in case you need to defend various all-ins or banshee cloak harass. A cannon near the nexus can both serve as defense for the expo and provide detection against cloak while a second cannon can be made at the home base if needed in the rare case they go banshee. 2 cannons is still cheaper then a robo for example.
Warp
Profile Joined August 2010
United States166 Posts
March 29 2011 22:26 GMT
#5
I LOVE YOUUUUU!!!!!!

Thank you so much for putting all the effort you did into this guide, I've been wondering about his amazing playstyle for a while now.

Thanks
"nothing supscious going on here" - Camille Cavour aka Chris Loranger aka HuK the beast
SgtSquiglz
Profile Joined December 2010
United States668 Posts
March 29 2011 22:32 GMT
#6
I have been trying to incorporate this build into my play lately....love the double forge. Thank you for putting so much effort into this, I'm sure it will help me a lot.

Much appreciated!!
Take anything I say with a grain of salt.....I suck at this game. Also, Go Blue!
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
March 29 2011 22:48 GMT
#7
My favorite part about this is how strong your Gateway units are when faced against Medivacs. It's as if the upgrades are like this 1.5 tier tech that matches against the healing Medivacs do, allowing you to deal with drops and mid-game bio balls while delaying that big AoE tech (Colossus/Templar), thus being able to take an early third base or mount a very strong 2 base mid-game push with Thermal Lance.
xxklownxx
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada47 Posts
March 29 2011 23:43 GMT
#8
Thanks for mapping the build out!

I've been trying to figure it out myself through vods and just practice games, and i ended up with something similar. This guide however, clears up some timings that make the build run more smoothly, like when to build the forges and when to build the twilight

From what ive seen, this build is incredibly strong, and its interchangeable with other protoss stratagies. The key point i think, is the gaurdian sheild/armor combo, the damage mitigated is so extreme (coupled with charge) and the damage delt is also significant.

I think i will be making this a staple of my PvT, as it is really strong and has few weaknesses.
FliedLice
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany7494 Posts
March 29 2011 23:47 GMT
#9
Have been using "on the fly"-double-forge builds for quite some time now, will give this particular one a try this week for sure
Kevmeister @ Dota2
LesPhoques
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada782 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-29 23:52:57
March 29 2011 23:50 GMT
#10
Why ??? I took so much time researching this build and was only sharing it with friends ... :/
Oh well, thank you

My little variation: Sometimes I skip gateway after robo and get a quicker expansion, depending on what my opponent is doing. Also, lets me get charge and blink a bit faster + adding robotic bay. I would recommend making 2-4 colossi and try to snipe medivacs with blink stalkers while zealots are tanking damage. If you are successful, you will force terran to make medivacs OR vikings. Depending on their choice, you can decide on making colossi + expand or add a stargate with carriers, it will be a good choice
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
March 29 2011 23:52 GMT
#11
On March 30 2011 08:50 LesPhoques wrote:
Why ??? I took so much time researching this build and was only sharing it with friends ... :/
Oh well, thank you

Because we are nicer than you
LesPhoques
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada782 Posts
March 29 2011 23:54 GMT
#12
On March 30 2011 08:52 CecilSunkure wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2011 08:50 LesPhoques wrote:
Why ??? I took so much time researching this build and was only sharing it with friends ... :/
Oh well, thank you

Because we are nicer than you


You are indeed
Next time I will definitely share
Gecko
Profile Joined August 2010
United States519 Posts
March 29 2011 23:55 GMT
#13
Thanks for the guide , i really like how this build works i should try it when i start laddering in season 2.

Maybe you should put your guides on liquipedia. Some really standard stuff like 2gate observer expanding is not even on there.
lim1017
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1278 Posts
March 29 2011 23:59 GMT
#14
As much as I love tyer he did not create the double forge build. He may have popularized it or perfected it, but the first time I saw double forge was in gsl. IT was hong un prime playing vs a terran (I forget the nane). On stog incontrol and tyler were discussing it still unsure how viable it was
ccJroy
Profile Joined April 2010
United States483 Posts
March 29 2011 23:59 GMT
#15
yay you finally posted this guide!! Love you Ke!!! When we gonna see you at some local tournaments in the future?

Nice guide!
Lol Rly?
BoondockVeritas
Profile Joined August 2010
United States191 Posts
March 30 2011 00:40 GMT
#16
someone get this in the liquipedia page plz i've been messing with stuff like this, but having a more direct list of how tyler is doing it is nice and would help people who haven't tried it before.
NA server Veritas.414, KR server Bullet.382. 지지요!
deerpark87
Profile Joined January 2011
760 Posts
March 30 2011 00:44 GMT
#17
Pretty sure hong un prime used this built first on GSL and not tyler.
Foooky
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Australia205 Posts
March 30 2011 01:17 GMT
#18
On March 30 2011 09:44 deerpark87 wrote:
Pretty sure hong un prime used this built first on GSL and not tyler.


Yes but one might claim that the title of this thread refers to tylers version of the double forge build which perhaps is refined past the concept of double forge exhibited by hongun in GSL
SaJa
Profile Joined November 2010
France84 Posts
March 30 2011 01:33 GMT
#19
This is I was looking for, ty
Retgery
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1229 Posts
March 30 2011 01:40 GMT
#20
How well does it work, if you do the 2 forges after a kcdc FE?
Fall down 7 times, stand up 8.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
20:50
Best Games
Maru vs Solar
Reynor vs TriGGeR
herO vs Solar
Clem vs TriGGeR
Maru vs TBD
PiGStarcraft149
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 216
UpATreeSC 155
PiGStarcraft149
ForJumy 56
Nathanias 34
EmSc Tv 24
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 1704
Shuttle 214
Hyuk 57
IntoTheRainbow 11
NaDa 11
ivOry 6
League of Legends
C9.Mang0111
Counter-Strike
fl0m1874
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King83
Other Games
FrodaN4729
summit1g4067
Grubby3816
Beastyqt1087
RotterdaM496
shahzam300
mouzStarbuck272
KnowMe243
ToD228
Liquid`Hasu199
Harstem146
ArmadaUGS136
Trikslyr55
ZombieGrub31
JuggernautJason9
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1493
BasetradeTV128
StarCraft 2
angryscii 36
EmSc Tv 24
EmSc2Tv 24
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 37
• davetesta28
• Hupsaiya 25
• musti20045 19
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 29
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• imaqtpie2946
• TFBlade1495
• Shiphtur496
• Stunt481
• Scarra99
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 41m
RongYI Cup
13h 41m
herO vs Maru
Replay Cast
1d 2h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 14h
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
The PondCast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-05
HSC XXVIII
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Escore Tournament S1: W7
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.