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After about 12 or so games of TvZ, here are some observations I've made (3k+ masters):
1. Holy hell does fungal hurt now, 4 seconds is still ample time for banelings to roll in and kill your fungaled marines. I used to be able to poke around with a small ball of marines and medivacs in front my tanks. Chain fungals are absolutely brutal now.
2. Drops are much harder to execute - Good zergs are now camping 1 infestor at each base. The instant marines my 8 marines finish dropped they would unburrow the infestor and drop my marine ball's HP to red before any real damage can be done. Add in one spine crawler per base and my drop is pretty much useless. (Before I would be able to snipe off a spine crawler, but now because fungal drops my marine's HP so fast, spine crawlers can 1 shot a marine)
3. Zergs don't necessarily rush to infestors, they still do the usual mid game muta harass, but then tend to transition to infestors after the first pack of mutas. Usually this would force me to spam like 3 turrets per base.
4. Ghosts have even LESS utility given their nerf, quite often the infestors can store up to 175 energy (the 3-4 that infestors are used defensively to prevent drops), meaning that by mid-late I need to land 2 EMPs or more, which is really hard considering how big infestors are.Still have no idea how to use snipe effectively  .
5. My TvZ has always had an emphasis on very fast infantry upgrades (3/3) before 20 minutes, but because fungal completely ignores armor, it makes my armor upgrades not as useful. (Banelings + Fungals = armor is useless)
Seems the only way is to stim 1-2 marauders to try and snipe the infestors.
Frankly I'm at loss on how to properly counter infestors post patch, any ideas from fellow Terran players?
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Thank you for this useful info. I've played PTR and I've realized how good fungal is a while back. knowing how the trend is developing would help alot
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On March 23 2011 12:55 Griffith` wrote:
1. Holy hell does fungal hurt now, 4 seconds is still ample time for banelings to roll in and kill your fungaled marines.
They dont even need the banelings 2 sec into the stun they can pop another on and instakill all ur marines i think ghosts are gonna be a common thing in TvZ now
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I'm starting to be glad I've been working ghosts into all my match ups...infestors are scary
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zerg opinion here.
Im still having a lot of trouble getting good use out of my infestors w/ a decent number of tanks placed in the enemy army. Lesser players will bring their marines out in front and get it, but smarter ones take more time to leapfrog and the openings are hard to spot.
Maybe try more tanks, but i cant say that in masters they wouldnt just have enough muta or lings to overrun you then.
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I don't like it necessarily.... having to spend excess gas on neutralizing zerg versus spending it on a faster upgrade or an extra tank. Also, with zergs basically making infestors a normal thing, mech is just one upgrade away from being Neural'd to death.
I say we need a new style.
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Terrans took a huge hit in this patch. Bio isn't durable enough to be the staple army anymore.
I still think the answer lies somewhere in biomech where you get the both of both worlds, but getting enough gas, let alone minerals, to support that kind of army is ridiculous. I find myself having too small an army when I'm facing off vs a muta/ling player.
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With the Infestor changes, more Z are undoubtedly going to start using them in ZvT.
However, thus far it's only been effective because most T are reluctant to bring out Ghosts (Tank>Ghost being the reasoning) when they see Infestors.
It should be interesting to see more prevalent Ghost/Infestor play in ZvT now.
Hopefully it opens a viable path into nuke play, which I find can be very strong against Z.
Personally, I may start messing around with a Hellion/Rauder/Ghost build.
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I'm not a Terran but i'd suggest adding some ghosts. It may not seem very natural now as far as ur mineral/gas distribution but some good EMPs are extremely deadly (not to mention snipe). It'll probably take some time tho to refine some builds and drops just won't be as good.
BTW, are zergs opening infestors or going muta into infestors?
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You do realize you're are *itching about how your teir one units are being killed by teir 1.5 and teir 2 units in your 1st two points. Its really sad. And You do know you have other units besides the marines and medivacs at your disposal.
User was warned for this post
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How about going Marine Tank with a touch of Ravens.
With Autoturrets you can build artificial walls, even on creep. Neural Parasite could be a problem if you get HSM, but HSM isn't all that great when you got tanks already.
You could also try that Marine Raven build that plays a lot like SK Terran that was posted awhile back.
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While Infestors are good, they still don't really beat Siege Tanks, which should still be a staple in the Terran army. Speaking as a Zerg player, if I use much of my gas getting Infestors instead of adding on more Mutalisks, it is going to be hard stopping something like a 2 Factory mid game push.
Infestors does offer a smoother transition to Ultralisks, whereas before, heavy Mutalisks play led more to Broodlords.
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looking at it, you gotta say that snipe is better now. 75 ghost energy to kill the infestor as opposed to to 75 energy to remove 100 of it's energy. (It takes three sniper shots to kill an infestor because they regen 1 HP between the first and second shots, fucking things).
but the micro required to line up 3 sniper shots in a row, when you consider the poor vision that terrans have means that you'd have to have insane reactions and accuracy to take one out before it fungals your army
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I thought Infestors got worse against Marines (same dmg, decreased stun) or am I mistaken here?
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On March 23 2011 17:47 Baum wrote:
I thought Infestors got worse against Marines (same dmg, decreased stun) or am I mistaken here?
the dps is two-fold. fungals followed by banes/lings completely negates medivacs and kills everything in 6 or 7 seconds
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This must be what its like to play with colossi or tanks.
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You should check out this replay, BratOK goes ghost/tank/hellion and it's pretty effective. I think he could've won if he got cloaking for his ghosts much sooner, but regardless Darkforce played really well. Awesome, awesome game.
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On March 23 2011 17:49 ceciljacobs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 17:47 Baum wrote:
I thought Infestors got worse against Marines (same dmg, decreased stun) or am I mistaken here? the dps is two-fold. fungals followed by banes/lings completely negates medivacs and kills everything in 6 or 7 seconds
But it has been like this before the patch. And if you are controlling your siegetanks correctly Zerg will not get those easy kills. Not getting a raven is always a gamble against Zerg because of burrowed Banelings. So in my eyes nothing has changed really.
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counter infestors with siege tanks, they do full damage to them.
I don't see anything wrong with EMP'ing infestors considering EMP and fungal are worth the same energy, if they have time to get 175 energy, so do you. It's also not like you're going to bring ghosts with you on a drop
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actually i just tried out 1.3 battlecruisers, and holy hell they're fast. fuck messing around with ghosts just get a few bcs and yamato the infestors
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EPT
