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On March 30 2011 04:52 DoctorClock wrote:
Thank you for posting this build Pookie. I don't play a lot, but I'm 3-0 with it so far in Diamond. You are right, it is very micro intensive, but it can really throw off your opponent if they can't keep up with the multi-pronged attacks.
However, I feel really weak when I expo (landing OC at natural as Thor moves out) as I only have a Thor or two and a few Marines/Hellions to defend. In your replay, you only throw down 1 bunker at your expo. Do you just rely on constant pressure/harass to keep your expo safe?
yes constant pressure is how i protect my expo, but really look at the replays pay attention to how much a zerg generally has at this stage in the game, how can a zerg at 9 minutes into the game on a FE build really have enough to defend their main from a marine hellion drop and take down a scv repaired thor with a meddivac and bunker at the same time. some games im forced to get a banshee out faster cause of fast roaches and i have a replay of that. i think i should add that this build is not a good idea on close spawns slag pitts due to how easy it is for them to just baneling roach u to death.
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On March 30 2011 05:10 skypig wrote:
Okay, Pookie, apparently your TvZ build is really good. However, I'm a Z player - how do I stop your build if I see it used against me (if you don't mind me asking)?
its a standard harass build so all the mechanics of defending harrass are what keep you alive, being able to manage your army well and micro good. i feel this build works the best against players who try ling baneling muta and worst against players who mass roaches so that they have enough in their main to defend my drop and enough to attack my expo. those players sacrifice alot of economy to do so however
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Pookie, pookie, pookie. I have seen your incredible success vs Zerg and truly you are a role model. I am a lowly high diamond Terran whom maintains his 51/49 w/l ratio off of terran and protoss games alone. I lost 12 out of my last 13 Zerg games, and I have decided to start practicing this build. (after many,many failed attempts of 9:00 MMM or MMH pushes). I shall practice in good faith and measure, However I wonder if you have any room in your stardom to help a poor Terran out... do you offer coaching at all? I'm pretty sure there is some way I can compensate you in return.
Anyways, thank you for your wonderful help for the community. Let's hope this here Terran sees a light at the end of this nydus wurm soon enough.
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On March 30 2011 07:03 RukKus wrote:
Pookie, pookie, pookie. I have seen your incredible success vs Zerg and truly you are a role model. I am a lowly high diamond Terran whom maintains his 51/49 w/l ratio off of terran and protoss games alone. I lost 12 out of my last 13 Zerg games, and I have decided to start practicing this build. (after many,many failed attempts of 9:00 MMM or MMH pushes). I shall practice in good faith and measure, However I wonder if you have any room in your stardom to help a poor Terran out... do you offer coaching at all? I'm pretty sure there is some way I can compensate you in return.
Anyways, thank you for your wonderful help for the community. Let's hope this here Terran sees a light at the end of this nydus wurm soon enough.
i dont have enough time to do coaching unfortunately, i tried doing MMM and MMH timing pushes too off fast expos but they had a terrible showing, so i just went back and looked at my old build.
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Do you feel that something like 2 rax fe isnt powerful enough in tvz as it is in tvp? It seems by fe vs zerg you let them drone a lot. Does terran need these delayed expo and strong harass and push tactics to compete vs good z players?
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On March 31 2011 00:08 RukKus wrote:
Do you feel that something like 2 rax fe isnt powerful enough in tvz as it is in tvp? It seems by fe vs zerg you let them drone a lot. Does terran need these delayed expo and strong harass and push tactics to compete vs good z players?
i think its powerful but it seems thats only the case if you do a 2 base tank marine push which i dont think im really that comfortable with
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Watched 4-5 replays, tried the build myself. Pretty damn intense build I gotta say. It's like trying a new hybrid super hot food (ample warning in OP already).
Damn, coming from a high bronze player this build is tough, especially (finished 2nd last season) when trying to keep up all the usual base macro stuff while the attack is going. Won on first attempt on this build but as mid-game plan I just couldnt handle it and transitioned to MMM+Raven+Thor+BF Hell push rather than doing double pronged attack.
Wouldn't you think it would be better to hit rapidly from one end of the base then immediately retreating back from team A coming from the west, then while the units are clumped to one side of the base we come in from the east with team B? Effectively yo-yo-ing the enemy to and fro?
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On March 31 2011 01:09 Slickz wrote:
Watched 4-5 replays, tried the build myself. Pretty damn intense build I gotta say. It's like trying a new hybrid super hot food (ample warning in OP already).
Damn, coming from a high bronze player this build is tough, especially (finished 2nd last season) when trying to keep up all the usual base macro stuff while the attack is going. Won on first attempt on this build but as mid-game plan I just couldnt handle it and transitioned to MMM+Raven+Thor+BF Hell push rather than doing double pronged attack.
Wouldn't you think it would be better to hit rapidly from one end of the base then immediately retreating back from team A coming from the west, then while the units are clumped to one side of the base we come in from the east with team B? Effectively yo-yo-ing the enemy to and fro?
eh the thor is slow and not everything i bring with the attack can fit in the medivac, i mean i suppose you can bring just the Thor and medivac and try that yoyo approach
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I can't see the replays but this sounds really awesome. Can you repost the replays?
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On March 31 2011 03:36 Calvin12 wrote:
I can't see the replays but this sounds really awesome. Can you repost the replays?
hmm why cant you see the replays? is the links i put in the OP not working?
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Any new replays? Ive had incredible success with this build but after the reset I've been getting demolished. It's not even close. By the time I knock on their door with the two pronged attack - im usually met with 3ish mutas and lings which fend off my harasss way too easily. Does this mean im behind in my build?
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Would it be good if I don't bring any scvs and easily save all my units (the thor) because I never could do any real damage with my 6 scvs repairing. Also, after the first thor, I just add 2 more rax and treat it as standard marine tank and get stim/combat shield/+1 then eventually become 4/2/1 on 2 bases while getting a 3rd. Also, in what situation or map or unit comp Z has would you go "pure mech would work wonders here."
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On March 31 2011 10:31 aw34r wrote:
Any new replays? Ive had incredible success with this build but after the reset I've been getting demolished. It's not even close. By the time I knock on their door with the two pronged attack - im usually met with 3ish mutas and lings which fend off my harasss way too easily. Does this mean im behind in my build?
whoa mutas? no way your definitely doing the build wrong if he has mutas out when u dont the first two pronged attack
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On March 31 2011 12:39 Trakky wrote:
Would it be good if I don't bring any scvs and easily save all my units (the thor) because I never could do any real damage with my 6 scvs repairing. Also, after the first thor, I just add 2 more rax and treat it as standard marine tank and get stim/combat shield/+1 then eventually become 4/2/1 on 2 bases while getting a 3rd. Also, in what situation or map or unit comp Z has would you go "pure mech would work wonders here."
its possible i just hope your actually doing the build right, can u show me a replay?
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I've been doing the similar build except i'm doing octodrops with marines followed up by thor drop or more medivacs with more marines. This works exceptionally well on close air distance on (s)LT and Metalopolis. Just camp the marines behind the mineral lines will give you a great lead even if you lose it all, because the zerg really have to invest a tons to get rid of it. Also you'd get your natural up by time your second medivac is ready. 
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Hey dude, Im 3700 terran before reset and been throwing your build in quuite often...I was using your old version tho so after checking out your replays I have a few questions..
1. what happened to reactor rax? I noticed in a lot of your replays you had surplus of minerals, wouldnt that reactor help (start building on fac and swap like you use to do), I also noticed ur composition doesnt usually have too many marines, more so thors...is this intentional or just how it ended up.
2. do you generally always try to harass with first banshee? I havent been but you do some crazy damage
3. What is proper response to mass ling/banes/mutas...a lot of ur replays you constanly harass so they never reach any critical mass but if you drop another fac, research blue flame on the other ... how do you deal with the mutas with lack of aa.
4. one last thing, ur timing of expo varies...what do you usually aim for?
ty for help
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On April 01 2011 21:59 CrayonKing wrote:
Hey dude, Im 3700 terran before reset and been throwing your build in quuite often...I was using your old version tho so after checking out your replays I have a few questions..
1. what happened to reactor rax? I noticed in a lot of your replays you had surplus of minerals, wouldnt that reactor help (start building on fac and swap like you use to do), I also noticed ur composition doesnt usually have too many marines, more so thors...is this intentional or just how it ended up.
2. do you generally always try to harass with first banshee? I havent been but you do some crazy damage
3. What is proper response to mass ling/banes/mutas...a lot of ur replays you constanly harass so they never reach any critical mass but if you drop another fac, research blue flame on the other ... how do you deal with the mutas with lack of aa.
4. one last thing, ur timing of expo varies...what do you usually aim for?
ty for help
1. hmm yeah i think i need to do that reactor rax again to get more mariners out
2. yeah in many games all the zergys queens die from the harrass especially since i target them, the banshee proceeds to go to work lol
3. you pretty much answered the question this build is actually MOST effective against ling bane muta builds do to the constant timing attacks and wearing down his ling numbers, and weakest to roach infestor baneling builds
4. i have to be honest im not a very methodical player im very scatterbrained, my expo varies cause i kinda just build it whenever i remember too when im in control of the game lol
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How effective is this build againt P? i know its mainly for zerg but with the drop + banshee - into thor push seems deadly.. Also i see in some of your games you don't get 2nd medivac but favor 2 banshees with your thor.. Is there a reason for this? When should i build the 2nd medivac and when should i build the exstra banshees
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absolutley loving this build so thanks for the posting. i have been doing a slightly different version but the core principle and opening is the same. i try to get down my cc in base as soon as possible after factory is complete. delays starport a little but not much and around this time there is usually some excess minerals anyway.having taken the seoncd gas i usually follow up just like you hellion marine drop main thor pushing front often times lifted to main with second medivac and saved just as about to die. my now i have banshee out and expo mining and 4 gas i continue lifting in to main and abusing pixk up and harrass and banshee dps. almost always tech will be delayed and so will a 3rd. i throw down addtional factories research blue flame and go pure mech. thor, blue flame, banshee, and also a RAVEN. that part is crucial. this late game combo is absolutley brutal, and eventually you will be wantning to add tanks, if roach count gets high anyway. final unit combination is usually thor banshee raven blue flame hellion, and some siege tanks. with strike cannons ultra tech switches can be handled, and with pdd blue flame and thors broodlords are fine too. if they have lots of infestros then again this is a sign to build up tank count.
but basically i find this build is a great opening which rewards micro and multitasking as well as transitioning into an incredibly strong late game compisition many zergs aren't used.
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high diamond t, if that matters
I really enjoy using this opening!
i really like your 1/1/1 queen snipe, with a banshee follow up. if you snipe your opponents queens you will almost certainly do damage.
i just dont know how to follow it up. after my initial harass is done and my expo is up, i push with the thors and it usually ends up with a trade where i manage to save the thor.
I just feel like you need that tank/rine + 2-3 thors comp later in the game. well, at least tanks. do you have any reps where the zerg just respons to your banshee/hellion and just goes for infestor/roach? 'cause i feel like it would demolish it pretty hard  maybe im wrong, im just a diamond noob after all
tell me what you think.
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EPT
