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Ok so some background knowlege, im a zerg player at 3k diamond.
I played a game last night where I lost to 3gate blink stalker because I completely missed it when I sacced my OL. When I went in I saw 3 gates and the robo and did not expect blink stalker at all.(obviously I missed the TC, but even if i'd have seen it im not sure I would have expected it)
The guy made an observer and used it to spot my base on metal so he could blink his stalkers up into my base. To me this seems like a bad build since it delays the push quite significantly. However it got me to thinking what if he made a warp prism instead of the observer.
This is theory crafting I suppose and I'm aware that this is against the rules of the strategy forum but I was a little cautious of posting this in the general forum, so hopefully this discussion is allowed. If not, I'm sorry.
So you make your warp prism and load it with a sentry send your stalkers out and get ready to react.
Send the warp prism out and try to locate his army (which is probably going to be roach/ling so your warp prism should be fairly safe to poke in an out.
As soon as you see his army you drop your sentry and forcefield his ramp either locking him in his main or out of his main. If he is in his main you then take your stalkers and go kill his natural, or if he is in his natural you use the warp prism for vision and blink your stalkers up to kill his main. You can even use the warp prism to reinforce stalkers and make more sentrys to keep the ramp FF'd indefinately
This itself is probably going to be GG, but there would even be scope for tactically letting his army up while you FF the ramp from the low ground with another sentry locking it up there while you blink out and kill his natural.
Just thinking about a protoss doing this to me is terrifying im struggling to think how I would even go about trying to stop it other than just going for a base trade (which to me doesnt really seem like a great solution)
Like even if half his army is in his main and half at his nat you'll just be able to kill off one half of it easily with your full force.
However I am not a protoss player so I cannot really test this build. I would like if someone of a decently high level could test this out themselves or vs me so we can post some replays to give this thread a bit more credability.
Hope this isnt too out of place in the strategy forum.
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Oh I seen this before. It was a PvZ game on Delta. It was an epic forcefield on the ramp at like the last second. Won him the game.
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that was tester vs "i cant remember"
that was a pretty pimp play idd. he even put a pylon on the high ground there
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Ok so Tester did it thats pretty awesome.
If theres any protoss players can they tell me how long this would delay the standard 3 gate blink stalker push.
And as a zerg player how do I even stop this like I suppose if I scout it and know its coming i can get a couple of hydras out in time to defend my ramp to ever stop the sentry getting in position to FF it, but I would think if the sentry gets dropped and the ramp blocked, then the stalkers are going to kill your main or your nat and I dont see anything that you can do about it.
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I think I win 50% of my PvZ with blink stalkers, and the other 50% by clutch forcefields on the ramp. With this strat my win ratio should be 100%.
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why don't you go and rape his base? it is not like he should have much defending it.
though i can see the problem, since Zerg can't break forcefields that early.
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What time did this hit for you with the obs? with a robo+warpprism thats an extra 400 minerals you really don't have if you're going for blink stalkers unless you delay.
Don't get me wrong, I really like this idea, I'm just looking for loopholes. aggressive sentry play like this makes me drool.
2.5k diamond protoss here, I'll play around with the idea. Would love to hear other people's thoughts on where this can fail or how it can win.
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Im not sure about the timing, im at work and cant check but id imagine its going to be at least 1-1.5 minutes later
Obviously its going to be dealyed. but your just going to have more stuff to defend, thats not that much use when your army doesnt even get to fight.
Going to kill his base is pretty much your only option but youve got a pretty big head start given the toss is already in your base and youve got to walk all the way (especially bad if you delayed roach speed for early hydra to defend 3gate blink)
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Afaik, the 3gate blink stalker build has blink stalkers at the opponent's base at around 7 mins. If you wait for the robo/warp prism, thats going to pretty much take you out of the timing window that you have while zerg is still making their lair tech building.
There is a lot of other things that could go wrong with this build though.
- The zerg uses all larvae at the main or nat to make lings.
- You mismicro and the FF doesn't block the entire ramp
- Zerg attacks you before you can get out the warp prism/whatever
- Queen kills the warp prism
It would be a very micro-intense build, and would require a lot of skill and luck, but in the right situation i could see it having a chance of working.
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An excellent byproduct of skipping the front of the natural is the fact that spines are taken out of the equation.
Also, if zerg tries to go for a base trade, its not hard to warp in a few sentries and delay by FF the ramp back home.
Now I'm just worried if the zerg gets enough time to get lair and hydras up, it'll deny the WP+sentry.
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I do not understand why would anyone bother with this when god blessed us with 2 base colo/VR  .
But i think i saw this in a game tester vs "some random guy" and it worked pretty well, however i am not a fan of blink stalkers, they seem quite weak to me.
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On February 28 2011 23:35 57 Corvette wrote:
Afaik, the 3gate blink stalker build has blink stalkers at the opponent's base at around 7 mins. If you wait for the robo/warp prism, thats going to pretty much take you out of the timing window that you have while zerg is still making their lair tech building.
There is a lot of other things that could go wrong with this build though.
- The zerg uses all larvae at the main or nat to make lings.
- You mismicro and the FF doesn't block the entire ramp
- Zerg attacks you before you can get out the warp prism/whatever
- Queen kills the warp prism
It would be a very micro-intense build, and would require a lot of skill and luck, but in the right situation i could see it having a chance of working.
As a zerg player im going to have my lair when blink stalker hits anyway so im not sure about that timing. I dont see what else your going to have in 1-2 mins etc thats going to stop this working other than more stuff.
At the level I play there is no way I'm going to have enough larva spare at all my bases nevermind just my main or nat to hold off an attack. If this was the case you could just start making lings at the last mnute and hold off any blink stalker attack. (obviously not correct)
Blocking the ramp with a FF isnt that hard, I dont even play toss and I dont think i'd ever mess it up.
Queen could kill the warp prism admitedly but if your careful I dont think theres much chance of it happening before the FF is down and the stalkers are blinking into your base, at which point its already too late
No zerg is going to try to bust a 1 base protoss, your going to macro and try to defend the push, blink stalkers vs roach/ling up a ramp is going to be so cost efficient you would be able to hold it no problem.
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Wouldn't it work to skip blink entirely? Drop a sentry in the main, FF the ramp, go into pylon mode and use the elevator trick to get the stalkers up. A little micro intensive, but should work, right?
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I managed to recover the old thread i made about the 3gate blink stalker build, if you need to salvage any replays/build orders from it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=165355
As a zerg player im going to have my lair when blink stalker hits anyway so im not sure about that timing. I dont see what else your going to have in 1-2 mins etc thats going to stop this working other than more stuff.
At the level I play there is no way I'm going to have enough larva spare at all my bases nevermind just my main or nat to hold off an attack. If this was the case you could just start making lings at the last mnute and hold off any blink stalker attack. (obviously not correct)
Blocking the ramp with a FF isnt that hard, I dont even play toss and I dont think i'd ever mess it up.
Queen could kill the warp prism admitedly but if your careful I dont think theres much chance of it happening before the FF is down and the stalkers are blinking into your base, at which point its already too late
No zerg is going to try to bust a 1 base protoss, your going to macro and try to defend the push, blink stalkers vs roach/ling up a ramp is going to be so cost efficient you would be able to hold it no problem.
I meant the time when you are still building your hydralisk den/spire, not the time when you are just making your lair.
Ok, yeah even if you do have 7 larvae saved up at your main or nat. 14 lings aren't truley enough to deal with a decent sized stalker force. If you already had army in your main/nat however, you could pull that back, make more units and attack with that army and the newly produced units.
I've seen plenty of times where people have just missed the FF, leaving a small space for units to go through. In an intense micro situation, it is completely possible to miss. Also, you need to factor in maps with ramps that can't be FF'd by just one forcefield (Scrap Station).
Yes, being careful usually prevents everything, but then again its an intense micro situation, and you may slip up. It is just a possibility.
I've seen plenty of zerg attacks hitting around the 6 min mark, mostly designed to counter a 4warpgate rush of some sort. Then you also need to factor in Roach rushes (5rr, 7rr) or roach/ling allins (3 roach speedling allin)
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On February 28 2011 23:40 mamuto wrote:
Now I'm just worried if the zerg gets enough time to get lair and hydras up, it'll deny the WP+sentry.
You know you could even threaten their front with the stalkers so they pull everything to defend, then come in drop the sentry in main FF ramp blink away and then blink up into their base, no hydra or roach is catching blink stalkers.
And yeah warp in a sentry to defend the base race easily....this just seems really scary to me.
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On February 28 2011 23:43 gurumaia wrote:
Wouldn't it work to skip blink entirely? Drop a sentry in the main, FF the ramp, go into pylon mode and use the elevator trick to get the stalkers up. A little micro intensive, but should work, right?
Holy $%&£ this is right......
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Does anyone have any Replays of someone using this strategy? It sounds very powerful, i would love to see some.
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On February 28 2011 23:44 57 Corvette wrote:
I meant the time when you are still building your hydralisk den/spire, not the time when you are just making your lair.
Ok, yeah even if you do have 7 larvae saved up at your main or nat. 14 lings aren't truley enough to deal with a decent sized stalker force. If you already had army in your main/nat however, you could pull that back, make more units and attack with that army and the newly produced units.
I've seen plenty of times where people have just missed the FF, leaving a small space for units to go through. In an intense micro situation, it is completely possible to miss. Also, you need to factor in maps with ramps that can't be FF'd by just one forcefield (Scrap Station).
Yes, being careful usually prevents everything, but then again its an intense micro situation, and you may slip up. It is just a possibility.
I've seen plenty of zerg attacks hitting around the 6 min mark, mostly designed to counter a 4warpgate rush of some sort. Then you also need to factor in Roach rushes (5rr, 7rr) or roach/ling allins (3 roach speedling allin)
Im not toally sure but a 5RR/7RR is going to hit before youve commited to the blink/warp prism anyway so holding that off is just going to be the same trivial defence as usual.
Yeah your not going to do it on scrap or other maps like that as it prtty much depends entirely on on getting the ramp blocked.
You say pull your army back, but if your (lucky to) have half your army in main and half in nat I dont think the reinforcements of 1 base+ half an army can possibly hope to defend againt a 3gate stalker push especially with reinforcement coming from the warp-prism.
Yeah you might lose the warp prism to a queen but that isnt exactly a reason to not do th build or a concrete way to defend it.
Also it isnt actually that intense I meant theres no battle going on yet, and the more I think about it attacking the front first to pull the army while you bring in the warp prism in the main ie drop the sentry in the corner run it up and FF, that way they dont even see the warp prism first to know its coming.
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On February 28 2011 23:59 PassiveAce wrote:
Does anyone have any Replays of someone using this strategy? It sounds very powerful, i would love to see some.
No replays yet since I play zerg but if someone wants to try it with me and we can post some im BoonSolo.297 (3k diamond) on the EU server. Still in work for now though.
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On February 28 2011 23:47 BoonSolo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 23:43 gurumaia wrote:
Wouldn't it work to skip blink entirely? Drop a sentry in the main, FF the ramp, go into pylon mode and use the elevator trick to get the stalkers up. A little micro intensive, but should work, right? Holy $%&£ this is right......
well in that case you don't even have to do purely stalkers.. mix in zealots. And have 4 sentries to constantly FF the ramp. Without blink this can hit a lot earlier :S
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I'm about 3300 diamond and failed these kind of builds. Probably my micro isn't good enough... . The problem is that zerg has always map control. So, a good zerg has his overlords out and some lings at the towers. Ok you can clear the lings before you move out but there is always a chance that he can spot your warpprism or your blinkstalker. You also have to drop the sentry near the ramp. Then he just puts half of his army up to his main (in that period of the game that should be not a big deal) and has also some larva left. Even if you can manage to forcefield the ramp the zerg can focus the sentries and buy time until the forcefield disappears.
And don't forget, this is an one base all-in. Even if you manage to kill a good amount of drones, the zerg will be ahead.
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On March 01 2011 00:10 mamuto wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 23:47 BoonSolo wrote:On February 28 2011 23:43 gurumaia wrote:
Wouldn't it work to skip blink entirely? Drop a sentry in the main, FF the ramp, go into pylon mode and use the elevator trick to get the stalkers up. A little micro intensive, but should work, right? Holy $%&£ this is right...... well in that case you don't even have to do purely stalkers.. mix in zealots. And have 4 sentries to constantly FF the ramp. Without blink this can hit a lot earlier :S
That's what I was thinking. It'll hit way earlier, and you can warp in some zealots on the high ground (I wouldn't bring them all the way across the map, since they're slower than stalkers) and have some sentries inside the prism the moment you get there, just waiting to drop!
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I'm sorry for being the devil's advocate here, but if you want to make a very solid strategy, then you need to have all the holes filled.
Have you considered if the zerg is going for a 1-base mass speedling allin?
For the 5/7RR, if you are spending your resources on your TC/Robo, then you are going to have a smaller army to defend. Of course, if you scout something that looks close to these builds, you can further delay your Robo/TC, but that would mean you need to keep your scout in the zerg's base for a very long time.
But i see if you do get the FF off, and get the stalkers in their base, it would be pretty effective.
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On March 01 2011 00:14 loklok wrote:
I'm about 3300 diamond and failed these kind of builds. Probably my micro isn't good enough... . The problem is that zerg has always map control. So, a good zerg has his overlords out and some lings at the towers. Ok you can clear the lings before you move out but there is always a chance that he can spot your warpprism or your blinkstalker. You also have to drop the sentry near the ramp. Then he just puts half of his army up to his main (in that period of the game that should be not a big deal) and has also some larva left. Even if you can manage to forcefield the ramp the zerg can focus the sentries and buy time until the forcefield disappears.
And don't forget, this is an one base all-in. Even if you manage to kill a good amount of drones, the zerg will be ahead.
The better question is how are you going to stop him from getting the FF off, sure if you see the warp prism coming you might be able to get it but if you pull everything to your main he is just going to drop it outside and then FF the ramp and attack your natural. If you split your army, Theres just no way half an army + half of your reinforcement capability is going to be able to stop a full blink stalker on 3 gate army + constant full powered reinforcement.
And this is BEST CASE because if your army is weaker on any one base ie 3/4 in main and 1/4 in nat your just going to attack where it is weakest.
@57corvette, as a mere 3k diamond zerg I really do feel protoss players at my level are taking a free win if i do a 1base rush as zerg, I just dont see anyway for a 5rr or 7rr to work against a decent oponent that isnt making a quick nexus. Maybe I am wrong but I think unless you scout an expansion from the zerg you arent going to do this strategy anyway.
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On March 01 2011 00:28 BoonSolo wrote:
@57corvette, as a mere 3k diamond zerg I really do feel protoss players at my level are taking a free win if i do a 1base rush as zerg, I just dont see anyway for a 5rr or 7rr to work against a decent oponent that isnt making a quick nexus. Maybe I am wrong but I think unless you scout an expansion from the zerg you arent going to do this strategy anyway.
Oh, you are at 3k diamond? That would explain it. Most of the 2400-2600 zergs I face these days seem to be either going for mass lings off one or two bases, or going for a quick hydralisk den.
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The better question is how are you going to stop him from getting the FF off, sure if you see the warp prism coming you might be able to get it but if you pull everything to your main he is just going to drop it outside and then FF the ramp and attack your natural. If you split your army, Theres just no way half an army + half of your reinforcement capability is going to be able to stop a full blink stalker on 3 gate army + constant full powered reinforcement.
Just can't imagine. We should stay realistic. I mean, zerg should already have some tumors in front of his second hatch and can spot any aggression fairly early. Main and expansion are connected with creep. The movement speed on creep is absurd.
So the facts:
I have to drop a sentry near ramp -> spotted by creep / Overlord -> moving units into the main. Now i'm loading in my sentry and flying all the way around the zerg spot to attack the expansion. That is a big amount of time and will be also spotted really fast.
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On March 01 2011 00:31 57 Corvette wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2011 00:28 BoonSolo wrote:
@57corvette, as a mere 3k diamond zerg I really do feel protoss players at my level are taking a free win if i do a 1base rush as zerg, I just dont see anyway for a 5rr or 7rr to work against a decent oponent that isnt making a quick nexus. Maybe I am wrong but I think unless you scout an expansion from the zerg you arent going to do this strategy anyway. Oh, you are at 3k diamond? That would explain it. Most of the 2400-2600 zergs I face these days seem to be either going for mass lings off one or two bases, or going for a quick hydralisk den.
Well if you scout only 1 base after like 25 supply or so then your not going to do it anyway since it hinges on splitting them from their base if they 1 base there isnt really a point cos theyll just keep their army in the main.
Quick hydra's which would be off 2 base would seem like the best counter to this tbh, but ive never opened quick hydra's vs protoss its pretty much instant lose against a lot of strategy's ie 4gate.
All of this isnt even considering you dont even need blink just drop the sentry, FF the ramp and elevator into the base using warp prism could make this hit at a scarily fast time, possibly before any conventional hydra timing. I need someone around my level to test this with me tonight on EU server.
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On March 01 2011 00:37 loklok wrote:Show nested quote +The better question is how are you going to stop him from getting the FF off, sure if you see the warp prism coming you might be able to get it but if you pull everything to your main he is just going to drop it outside and then FF the ramp and attack your natural. If you split your army, Theres just no way half an army + half of your reinforcement capability is going to be able to stop a full blink stalker on 3 gate army + constant full powered reinforcement. Just can't imagine. We should stay realistic. I mean, zerg should already have some tumors in front of his second hatch and can spot any aggression fairly early. Main and expansion are connected with creep. The movement speed on creep is absurd. So the facts: I have to drop a sentry near ramp -> spotted by creep / Overlord -> moving units into the main. Now i'm loading in my sentry and flying all the way around the zerg spot to attack the expansion. That is a big amount of time and will be also spotted really fast.
So theres a few possibilities here.
1. You attack the front with your army(bring a sentry) this is going to force the zerg to bring everything down to the natural to stop your army sentry getting the ramp FF and trapping you in your main. When this is going on you drop a sentry in their base and FF the ramp, retreat and blink/elevator into the main. In this situation I think the elevator would be pretty slow, letting the zergs army do serious damage to your as you get up. So for this I think blink is better.
EDIT: Hell you dont even need the sentry in the warp prism to do the FF, just FF the ramp witht eh sentry outside with your attack, retreat with blink and blink and blink into the main, set up your warp prism drop the sentry and keep the army out of his main for as long as you like.
2. You fly the warp prism in alone and the zerg see's it. he brings his roach/ling army and can either put it all in main/all in nat OR probably the best idea sit it on the ramp to try and stop the sentry getting the FF off. The problem is I now take my sentry and drop it out of roach range on the outside of the base but in range of the ramp.
As the zerg now what is your move if you send everything to kill the sentry itll block you out of your main and the stalkers can blink in. You stay where you are and I FF the ramp splitting your army letting me attack the front and just kill you anyway.
I dont see anyway to stop it without some hydra's and even then Im not convinced youd stop it that easily.
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On March 01 2011 00:58 BoonSolo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2011 00:37 loklok wrote:The better question is how are you going to stop him from getting the FF off, sure if you see the warp prism coming you might be able to get it but if you pull everything to your main he is just going to drop it outside and then FF the ramp and attack your natural. If you split your army, Theres just no way half an army + half of your reinforcement capability is going to be able to stop a full blink stalker on 3 gate army + constant full powered reinforcement. Just can't imagine. We should stay realistic. I mean, zerg should already have some tumors in front of his second hatch and can spot any aggression fairly early. Main and expansion are connected with creep. The movement speed on creep is absurd. So the facts: I have to drop a sentry near ramp -> spotted by creep / Overlord -> moving units into the main. Now i'm loading in my sentry and flying all the way around the zerg spot to attack the expansion. That is a big amount of time and will be also spotted really fast. So theres a few possibilities here. 1. You attack the front with your army(bring a sentry) this is going to force the zerg to bring everything down to the natural to stop your army sentry getting the ramp FF and trapping you in your main. When this is going on you drop a sentry in their base and FF the ramp, retreat and blink/elevator into the main. In this situation I think the elevator would be pretty slow, letting the zergs army do serious damage to your as you get up. So for this I think blink is better. 2. You fly the warp prism in alone and the zerg see's it. he brings his roach/ling army and can either put it all in main/all in nat OR probably the best idea sit it on the ramp to try and stop the sentry getting the FF off. The problem is I now take my sentry and drop it out of roach range on the outside of the base but in range of the ramp. As the zerg now what is your move if you send everything to kill the sentry itll block you out of your main and the stalkers blink in you stay where you are and I FF the ramp splitting your army letting me attack the front and just kill you anyway. I dont see anyway tostop it without some hydra's and even then Im not convinced youd stop it that easily.
My thoughts to these points:
You attack the front with your army(bring a sentry) this is going to force the zerg to bring everything down to the natural to stop your army sentry getting the ramp FF and trapping you in your main.
FF lasts 15 seconds. If Zerg see that he will produce lings/roaches at his main. Your own army will be splitted and it will take time to run around the cliff where the prism can lift your units.
You can't FF forever. If zerg brings 5 roaches out of larva he can easily pick off any sentries at is main. So you will have some seconds to deal really big dmg before zerg can enter his main because you are on one base. The other point is that you won't have many stalker because of your blink/robo tech and you won't have gas to produce endless sentries.
Only blink stalker are strong because of their timing. If i have to invest for robo, wait for warpprism and have some sentries in my army, that timing advantage gets completely lost and advance to a really critical timing where the zerg want to do his first big roach/ling aggression.
In conclusion: If zerg do not pay attention to his mini map and make big mistakes in micro then that all in will probably win the game. Otherwise toss will lose for sure.
I don't want to assume on diamond/master level that my opponent has no micro and go for such an all-in.
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Ok either im using the prism to lift my units and I dont have blink, in which case the push is not delayed it is much sooner than even a normal blink stalker push would hit....
OR
I use blink and then I can get into the main in a matter of seconds. IF I get the forcefield off I blink into your main, then there is going to be AT MOST half of the zergs roach ling army, if there was more than half then I would just attack the front with the stalkers and keep it FFd from there. Kill the nat and what units are there, afterwards My army would likely be big enough to kill the remaining zerg army.
And on 2 gas geysers I most certainly can keep it FFd forever, Im going to cut stalker production to ensure I have enough forcefields to stop the zerg army ever being able to attac k my stalkers (be them in his main or his natural)
The time it takes stalkers to blink into a main is a lot quicker than roaches getting produced
The point of the strategy just comes down to this, if you can forcefield a zergs ramp you are either A:Blocking his full army from defending his natural
B:Blocking his full army from defending his main
C:Splitting his army between the 2.
With blink stalkers and a warp prism for spotting, you can on most maps, attack either his main or his natural easily and keep the FF block going on indefinately by warping in more sentries using the warp prism.
If its option C and his army splits you obviously attack the smaller portion, so best case scenario for the zerg is that he splits his army 50:50 and in this case there is no way half of the zergs army can stand up to 3gate blink stalker even if it is delayed by 1-2 minutes
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This might be a good strategy, I'll try this.
Then maybe I can give you some of my thoughts.
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BoonSolo, I think its time to switch to OPtoss 
With a double gas you'll be mineral starved though, and will have to start cutting probes to get it all done. I'm beginning to think a zealot heavy force (at least initially) might be better, with one gas. load up a prism with the first sentry and 3 lots, drop in main, warp in 3 or 4 more zealots and boom you have a force of 6-7 zealots beating the crap out of anything in there with a FF on the ramp.
I can't wait to get home and try this out. I'll post replays when that happens.
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On March 01 2011 00:16 57 Corvette wrote:
I'm sorry for being the devil's advocate here, but if you want to make a very solid strategy, then you need to have all the holes filled.
Have you considered if the zerg is going for a 1-base mass speedling allin?
For the 5/7RR, if you are spending your resources on your TC/Robo, then you are going to have a smaller army to defend. Of course, if you scout something that looks close to these builds, you can further delay your Robo/TC, but that would mean you need to keep your scout in the zerg's base for a very long time.
But i see if you do get the FF off, and get the stalkers in their base, it would be pretty effective.
Warp-in 4 sentries at your main + wall off as normal. It will look like a normal 3 gate expand. As soon as your prism is out, pick up 3/4 sentries and move to his ramp.
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![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-193277.jpg)
Here's a replay from last night. This is the first time I tried it out on the ladder so please excuse the pretty horrible execution. I was too amazed at how well it was working. It ended up not ending the game, but set me on such equal footing with the zerg that I felt comfortable for the rest of the game.
For those who can't watch the replay, we spawned close air positions on metalopolis and I executed a build I've been working on after participating in this thread. It involves having a WP by 6:30 with 3 zealots and a sentry with 200/200 energy and 5 stalkers hitting the front. The micro involved was a little too much for me, I wasnt used to it, but...
basically I scared the zerg into making lings and a spine at the front. I ran the WP in from the back, dropped zealots and sentry off in the main, FF the ramp. Now the zerg tries to kill the stalkers out front, but i fly the WP over to the edge and elevator 4 of them into the main. From here I mess up a few FFs, the queens get one of my sentries, and I lose everything to roaches. But not before taking out a lot of drones, the pool, and the roach warren.
The zerg did an interesting tactic, take third when pushed with the rush, idk if its viable (I don't think he knew how to respond) I brought in 8 zealots and took it out a minute after the rush failed. I wondered why he had no units to come help and then i realized I took out the pool >.<
To keep this wall of text short, this is really potent. But not without some issues:
I need to work on my timings, I'm sure I can make this hit in the 6:40-7:00 mark.
I floated 1.2k minerals and was gas starved off one assimilator. Definitely need to work in the second one at some point.
Queens DESTROY warpprisms. Its ridiculous I barely had time to respond. Need to keep an eye on them. Maybe fight around the WP if need be or keep it far from the ledge once elevatoring is done.
Sentries are SUPER important and way too fragile. This is the most pivotal point of the build, if they go down, the rush pretty much fails. The FF micro involved is pretty brutal, you almost always have to watch the ramp and sentries and make sure they don't die.
Please, watch the replay, let me know if you like something or if you hate something else.
I had a ton of fun that game. I'm sure the zergie didn't >.<
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i think jessie the king has a recent replay of this
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I've been doing this for a while, I think it's an all in but it's quite good. You can forcefield pretty much indefinitely and destroy his main and all his tech... but it's reallly hard to expand. Most zergs react by sending their armies to your base.
Typically I would get an observer before the warp prism, but it wasn't really a refined build (random low diamond). I would follow with dark templars because why the hell not, you already have the tech.
Overall I don't think it's bad, but it's a little overly sophisticated and risky when so often all you need is a good timing push (at my level).
I'll try to find some replays when I come back.
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I'd love to see some, Miles, or anyone else's replays
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Love this build used to do it with hallucinate and a pylon to warp in on the highground just warp in 3 sentries FF for basically ever and just snipe all his tech and hatch then run away, If it fails though its pretty much GG since you will have been on 1 base for so long
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On February 28 2011 23:22 BoonSolo wrote:
Ok so Tester did it thats pretty awesome.
If theres any protoss players can they tell me how long this would delay the standard 3 gate blink stalker push.
And as a zerg player how do I even stop this like I suppose if I scout it and know its coming i can get a couple of hydras out in time to defend my ramp to ever stop the sentry getting in position to FF it, but I would think if the sentry gets dropped and the ramp blocked, then the stalkers are going to kill your main or your nat and I dont see anything that you can do about it.
In general terms, you can get very roughly 3.5 gas a second off of 2 maxed geysers, meaning 210 gas per game minute (conservative estimate I believe), so getting a robo either delays it by about 30 seconds, or it doesn't delay it and the Protoss player has 2 less stalkers than they could have.
I was addressing the warp prism idea instead of the observer
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There are a lot of different ways that you can pull off a strategy similar to this. I've done it where instead of getting robo tech, I go blink + hallucinate. You hallu a colossi and run your stalkers up into his base to take out what you can (I usually aim for the pool or a roach warren to limit counter attacks before attacking mineral lines.) When he goes to defend, I blink out and bring my sentry and my stalkers to his natural, FF it off and try to hurt his natural economy as much as possible. Micro intensive but pretty when executed and doesn't take anymore time than a usual blink harass. You just have 1-2 less stalkers due to Hallu research.
I've also done a 2 base timing where I blink up with an actual colossus at about the 10 min mark of the game to try and take out tech and take his army out of position and then another force of usually just zealots and a couple sentries take out his natural or 3rd expansion with an FF wall and zealots wailing away at stuff. Very strong but very micro intensive and I never execute to perfection as I would like to.
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EPT
