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Grapefruit
Germany439 Posts
On February 26 2011 22:39 biskit wrote: Not sure if the change is a buff really. Has anyone seen this footage? In a real battle situation Lings would nibble the stalkers to death while they move around like this. | ||
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ckukner
Turkey54 Posts
And ZvZ will become Muta fest. I mean anyone gets fungalled with this speed is outright moron and should stop playing Starcraft. | ||
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loving it
Canada271 Posts
On February 27 2011 03:05 Grapefruit wrote: In a real battle situation Lings would nibble the stalkers to death while they move around like this. Sure, but blink can be used to retreat right? If the stalkers just blink back at the right moment, they can just dodge the fungal and retreat whereas in the current patch, the stalkers wouldn't be able to run at all. And the missile is also pretty slow. If a group of marines were just on the edge of the fungal cast range, all they have to do is stim and run back. So instead of 10 marines getting fungaled, only 1 or 2 do cause the marines will already have retreated by the time the fungal growth reaches there. Or basically any unit that is running away from the infestor will now be able to dodge it. Phoenixes running away from an infestor can easily out pace the fungal growth. | ||
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telfire
United States415 Posts
It doesn't help the early game where Zerg has major issues coming out ahead against many different kinds of harass. | ||
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Sajuuk7
134 Posts
Disguise #1 Infestors have slightly more HP! Disguise #2 Fungal does slightly more damage to armored units! Nerf #1 The spell roots enemies HALF as long as before. This means less positioning time and that Banelings will have a tiny window to do their damage. This means using the spell as cloak detection (ex. Banshees) will be twice as energy consuming. This means bringing in your units to kill Mutalisk/Viking/Reaper/Stalker/Phoenix harass will be infinitesimally harder. Nerf #2 The spell has a slow projectile, instead of being instant cast anywhere. This means anyone who is skilled can simply dodge your Fungals, especially if you are casting it at it's max range (which was basically the only way of doing it, otherwise your Infestors are dead). This means fungaling Mutalisk/Viking/Reaper/Stalker/Phoenix harass will be infinitesimally harder. "But... but... It has increased DPS and it's quicker!" It will be doing exactly the same amount of damage per energy, except for that tiny buff towards armored units. If you are using your Infestors to do damage as the fight is already underway, it's too late. You should have been delaying them and damaging them the entire time they were coming across the map towards your base or coming through a choke point. "But... but... It does more damage than PSYSTORM now!" What are you smoking? It doesn't do more damage OR dps than psystorm and it never will. | ||
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
On February 27 2011 03:41 Sajuuk7 wrote: This is a huge disguised nerf, don't kid yourselves. Disguise #1 Infestors have slightly more HP! Disguise #2 Fungal does slightly more damage to armored units! Nerf #1 The spell roots enemies HALF as long as before. This means less positioning time and that Banelings will have a tiny window to do their damage. This means using the spell as cloak detection (ex. Banshees) will be twice as energy consuming. This means bringing in your units to kill Mutalisk/Viking/Reaper/Stalker/Phoenix harass will be infinitesimally harder. Nerf #2 The spell has a slow projectile, instead of being instant cast anywhere. This means anyone who is skilled can simply dodge your Fungals, especially if you are casting it at it's max range (which was basically the only way of doing it, otherwise your Infestors are dead). This means fungaling Mutalisk/Viking/Reaper/Stalker/Phoenix harass will be infinitesimally harder. "But... but... It has increased DPS and it's quicker!" It will be doing exactly the same amount of damage per energy, except for that tiny buff towards armored units. If you are using your Infestors to do damage as the fight is already underway, it's too late. You should have been delaying them and damaging them the entire time they were coming across the map towards your base or coming through a choke point. "But... but... It does more damage than PSYSTORM now!" What are you smoking? It doesn't do more damage OR dps than psystorm and it never will. The questions is: what are you smoking? User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Venomsflame
United States613 Posts
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ckukner
Turkey54 Posts
It will be impossible to hit rolling banes with this lame fungal. Mutalingbane will own roachhydra | ||
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
On February 26 2011 22:39 biskit wrote: Not sure if the change is a buff really. Has anyone seen this footage? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lSeH0U8H4M&feature=player_embedded As i said in some other topic, i'm confident i could dodge that with a Thor. Even i, as T, feel sorry for zerg for such a projectile speed. | ||
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Sajuuk7
134 Posts
The questions is: what are you smoking? ... is this turning into the battlenet forums? Do you have anything constructive to say? Are you for or against the changes and why? If you're going to post on TL at least state an opinion and not just nonsense. | ||
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Dromar
United States2145 Posts
On February 27 2011 03:41 Sajuuk7 wrote: Disguise #2 Fungal does slightly more damage to armored units! slightly? Even though you shrug off DPS below, it does make a difference. In the timespan of a battle, let's take 16 seconds for example, infestors will now deal 192 damage (4 casts) to armored units, whereas in the current version they deal 72 (2 casts). It takes more infestors, but the increase is not slight by any means. It's nearly 3 times the damage. Nerf #1 The spell roots enemies HALF as long as before. This means less positioning time and that Banelings will have a tiny window to do their damage. This means using the spell as cloak detection (ex. Banshees) will be twice as energy consuming. This means bringing in your units to kill Mutalisk/Viking/Reaper/Stalker/Phoenix harass will be infinitesimally harder. In general, what the change does is make fungal more of an AoE spell, and less of a stun spell (obviously). Pretty much they just made it synergize with banelings less, but do more damage. All they did was change the spell, chill out. Use an overseer to detect the banshee, or wait to fungal until you actually have something there to kill it. Nerf #2 The spell has a slow projectile, instead of being instant cast anywhere. This means anyone who is skilled can simply dodge your Fungals, especially if you are casting it at it's max range (which was basically the only way of doing it, otherwise your Infestors are dead). This means fungaling Mutalisk/Viking/Reaper/Stalker/Phoenix harass will be infinitesimally harder. We'll see about that. If you're not looking at your marines/stalkers at the time of the cast, it's not gonna happen. And if you are, you're not going to have much warning. In a non-engagement, you'll see the infestor in the corner of your vision as the fungal ball comes at you. In an engagement, he's got so many places he could logically cast, you'd have to predict when and where he casts in order to dodge. It's not like psi storm where you see it and then move out of the way to mitigate damage. Once fungal hits you, you can't move and you take all the damage. Worst case scenario, they have to increase the speed of the fungal ball a bit. But IMO, this change is great if for no other reason than for spectator and skill ceiling value. "But... but... It has increased DPS and it's quicker!" It will be doing exactly the same amount of damage per energy, except for that tiny buff towards armored units. If you are using your Infestors to do damage as the fight is already underway, it's too late. You should have been delaying them and damaging them the entire time they were coming across the map towards your base or coming through a choke point. See my points above. No way to say it other than you're flat out wrong. Currently, the best way is to delay and slowly deal damage with fungal before the engagement. With the new fungal, you will have the opportunity to deal significantly more damage during the engagement. "But... but... It does more damage than PSYSTORM now!" What are you smoking? It doesn't do more damage OR dps than psystorm and it never will. Fungal vs psi storm damage is debatable, and depends on the speed of the unit targetted and whether or not they are cornered. But the inability to micro is worth something, so it's tough to say whether that makes up for the damage. Also, please refrain from antagonizing comments such as "But... but... It has increased DPS and it's quicker!" "But... but... It does more damage than PSYSTORM now!" It's an insult to the intelligence of those who disagree with you, doesn't contribute to the discussion, and makes you look like a troll. | ||
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Ordained
United States779 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:24 awwnuts07 wrote: It will probably be a must for all match-ups now. Be prepared to go toe to toe with ghosts trying to EMP your Infestors. Thank goodness for burrow movement. | ||
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burnswuff
United States61 Posts
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Gigaudas
Sweden1213 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:24 awwnuts07 wrote: It will probably be a must for all match-ups now. Be prepared to go toe to toe with ghosts trying to EMP your Infestors. Both EMP and Feedback are already extremely effective against casters and these spells are mainly used against casters with instant abilities. An Infestor has no way of defending itself against a Templar or a Ghost. Infestors will, if standard, be a play that you need to transition out of when your opponent responds with Templar/Ghost. Infestors in ZvZ will be bad ass. Which is a good thing, Infestor+Roach should beat pure Roach if we want a micro intensive matchup. | ||
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funk100
United Kingdom172 Posts
stalkers & maraders & roaches, as they are roughly the same size and armored + Show Spoiler + psy storm raidius = 1.5 area = 1.5squared * pie = 7.064 7.064*80 = 565.12 assuming stalkers are 1 matrix in area (arverage size) fungal radius = 2 area = 2 squared * pie = 12.56 damage = 12.56 * 36 * 1.3 (30% extra armored) = 587.808 rines and zeals and general small units + Show Spoiler + storm = 7.064*2*80 = 1,130.23 fungal = 12.56 * 36 * 2 = 904.43 oh crap, oh well maybe just for armored units but hey you cant dodge fungal and armored units make up like half of the game | ||
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telfire
United States415 Posts
On February 27 2011 04:38 funk100 wrote: yeah, btw since it has a bigger radius than psi storm it does more overall damage on most units, assuming they are tightly packed stalkers & maraders & roaches, as they are roughly the same size and armored + Show Spoiler + psy storm raidius = 1.5 area = 1.5squared * pie = 7.064 7.064*80 = 565.12 assuming stalkers are 1 matrix in area (arverage size) fungal radius = 2 area = 2 squared * pie = 12.56 damage = 12.56 * 36 * 1.3 (30% extra armored) = 587.808 rines and zeals and general small units + Show Spoiler + storm = 7.064*2*80 = 1,130.23 fungal = 12.56 * 36 * 2 = 904.43 oh crap, oh well maybe just for armored units but hey you cant dodge fungal and armored units make up like half of the game So you realize halfway through that you are wrong, hide that fact in a spoiler, and are also wrong about not being able to dodge fungal, it's EXTREMELY slow and VERY dodgable. | ||
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Sajuuk7
134 Posts
Also, please refrain from antagonizing comments such as It's an insult to the intelligence of those who disagree with you, doesn't contribute to the discussion, and makes you look like a troll. No, I am not a troll. The people saying psystorm does less damage are, and people who put "The question is: What are you smoking?" as their entire post are. I'm simply stating their shortmindedness, much like yours. Ex. They have cloaked banshees. Solution - get Overseer. Duh... or you could have pre-patch Infestors. Case in point. | ||
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Serendipityx
United States595 Posts
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Harbinger631
United States376 Posts
The fact that fungal can be used more effectively against units w/ medivac support is huge. The fact that fungal in combo with speedlings can now more quickly take down marine balls is huge. | ||
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noddyz
United Kingdom462 Posts
The increased DPS i really don't care about to much either. The main problem for me was running out of energy, not that fungal didn't do damage fast enough. Still the same damage per energy  Saying that, it's a buff for the late game, when not so limited by energy and requiring the dps against mass medivacs. Don't like it overall. | ||
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