EPTBreak 200 Food Limit (as Zerg)-"Oversupply-Trick" - Page 5
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BriMikon
United States82 Posts
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FLuE
United States1012 Posts
To be honest, the best and most useful way I've found to use this is when your maxed and want to make brood lords. This is a great way to not have to kill off units and make a few broodlords, and doesn't require trying to make 20 sunkens and cancel but a few and there are a lot of pros that I've seen do that quite often. I've also seen this done quite often when people have banked a lot but instead of canceling the sunkens, and you have good creep spread let the sunkens build and bring them into battle with you. I think it will become more important for zerg to cut out drones in longer games, to help increase actual army supply especially since terran can sack SCVs for mules, and you are already losing supply w/ queens. | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On February 21 2011 09:10 kcdc wrote: Overlords have 200 health and cost 100 minerals. Bring extra empty OLs with your baneling bombers so 50% or more of the the shots go at empty OLs. Now it's a win for you if P is shooting at dirt cheap OLs with crap tons of health instead of at your roaches and hydras. right. If only protoss had some kind of unit magic to block off your main army while he shoots down your overlords... HMM. I'd also like to point out that overlord speed is 1.88 and stalker speed is 2.9. Hilarious overall. Really love this whole smugness of your new spin on the "use nydus/spread creep better" nonsense. | ||
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Dellward
Australia138 Posts
Though I can understand doing a few cancels if you max out before you get the real crucial/power units (ala infestors or BLs). | ||
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brainpower
United States233 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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TheDominator
New Zealand336 Posts
On February 21 2011 14:05 Antisocialmunky wrote: It is an interesting idea. People have been doing some variation of this for a while in the form of mass spine crawler late game to free up supply for broodlords. This seems better. The thing is (for this I will assume that minerals are irrelevant/unimportant), lets say you're current army is 200/200 and his is 170/200. By the time you do all that stuff, he would have 200/200 and you would be building the units still. He will engage and win. And even if your units came out in time, I would rather fight with 200 against 170 than 230 against 200 (due to the percentage of your army being bigger than his gets lower). | ||
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ryan1894
Australia264 Posts
I generally just box select a patch full of drones and just bc+shift click spam (the middle of lost temple - with a few spores in between) | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
with additional supply, i.e. using in flanks (doing full surrounds) Zerg gains so much by overhelming the enemy from everyside, and this with additional 30-40 supply without wasting economy seems very interesting at least. Again u guys think too theoretical. sure in a "perfect" game, your enemy hopefully never reaches the supplycap, then would have less to worry about, but that isn't the discussion here. how is the reality? Never have reached a state of a game, where attacking would do no good even if you are maxxed? Never have had a game where you have been in late game with mass minerals? in those situations this "could" be practical. should you go for this as a general strategy? hell no! should you go for this if you are in such a situation ? why not? Or do you just GG in those situation cause it is maxxed vs. maxxed? | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
i was easily able to do additional 40 supply and the progress bar of the Spores was around half way done this trick doesn't take more than 10-15 ingame seconds. Assuming that you don't have more than 30 Drones in one base it would make you need to pull additional Drones from other bases, which would makes it at least less efficient. because of this i guess additional 30 Supply would be the most effcient and fastest amount. And should take ~10s with a little practise. Only hard thing is to have enough creep to place each Sporecrawler and having the Drones stay near to the build places so splitting them in smaller groups would speed up the process since they have to walk less distance; (only the closest drone goes for the building) The Commands done is: Select all Drones Shift keep pressed -> Sporecrawler -> 30*(mouseclicks) on creep Hatch Hotkey -> Select Larva Hotkey -> Unit Hotkey (keep pressed) Double Click on one Sporecrawler, Press Escape to Cancel all Spores at ones Send back to mining. tada additional 30 Fightsupply Calculation for this would be: Oversupply-Trick Cost: 30 * 25% * 75 = 562minerals (+ lost mining time) Needed Ressources to do it: 30 * 75 = 2250minerals ( for the spores) + the ressources for the Units of course (+ the necessary larva) 30 Zerglings = 1500/0 (additional 60 * 25/25 for 60 banelings = +1500/+1500) 15 Roaches = 1125 / 375 15 Hydras = 1500/ 750 15 Mutas = 1500/1500 5 Ultras = 1500/1000 15 Corrupter = 2250 / 1500 (+562minerals = effective cost for additional Units) so 2000/1000 for additional 5 Ultras seems reasonable for me. If you already have the ressources for it already gathered, and the time/apm do to it. | ||
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JTouche
United States239 Posts
Lets go with the same situation. It's late game and you have 3-4k resources floating. Your at 200/200. You build spore colonies for more army, I'll throw down 4-6 hatches. Let's compare and contrast the gains of both. Spore colony route = 15-20 (however many spores thrown down) more supply for army for initial engagement. 4-6 hatcheries = 4-6 more supply for initial army, 12-18 more larvae for reinforcing army (MINIMUM, if you dont inject the extra hatcheries) hmmmmmmmmm......... Edit: Also I don't lose money for the the canceled spores. However you want to try to justify that, it's money for units i'd never get back. | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
In the end you will want more Units now in lategame situations, you can still remax afterwards. the whole trick hasn't that big costs after all just, needs some money on the bank and a little time. lets say this for ZvZ if you go 240 vs 200 both remax constantly who will win? More Army now means, more DPS dealt in less time, which of course results in bigger losses on your opponents side while meaning fewer losses during the fight for you most likely. will this increased fighting efficiency outwaight the inefficiency of using this supply trick? i certainly don't now, but i wouldn't be so sure if this couldn't be better. especially with hydras dealing so sick dps. is there any unittestmap where we could test this in a multiplayer situation? | ||
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Raysalis
Malaysia1034 Posts
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osten
Sweden316 Posts
Edit: So why are people responding with other tricks saying they are better? You can't say something you can also do simply is better when you can do both. It's illogical and as long as you do this trick the last, it dosen't make more sense to only do spines or only hatcheries, when you can do that and then this, in a theoretical maxxed scenario that's actually not that uncommon. Edit 2: Oh yeah, and i've tested around a long time ago, theoretically you can get much supply but in practice even 20 is pushing it. You have to let everything else go because it's so time critical. | ||
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
I realize this trick and remaxing are not mutually exclusive, but I do think the time required and the money wasted (due to not mining) are not worth it if you are basically going for a 2 or more wave attack anyway. | ||
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On February 21 2011 13:16 Sfydjklm wrote: right. If only protoss had some kind of unit magic to block off your main army while he shoots down your overlords... HMM. I'd also like to point out that overlord speed is 1.88 and stalker speed is 2.9. Hilarious overall. Really love this whole smugness of your new spin on the "use nydus/spread creep better" nonsense. If only your units had a magic spell that could make them sort of go under things. | ||
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