EPTmy tag for those who want to help me is tscxosiris.216
Bronze Player with a thousand games struggling - Page 2
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Ghost Reportin
83 Posts
my tag for those who want to help me is tscxosiris.216 | ||
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eth3n
718 Posts
On February 15 2011 09:44 ZeromuS wrote: Its ok I don't have time to look at replay I apologise but there are only 1 thing I want to ask first: How old are you? I know some people who are 10 or 11 and love giving the game a go but their mental abilities can't allow them to get too good at this game. Older individuals, into their late late 50s+ will have a hard time learning the hand eye coordination and speed required to play this game effectively. NOTE: Pre-teen development limits physical and mental coordination needed for starcraft at higher levels even just low diamond. Older individuals who almost never play video games or didn't play many video games before sc2 will have a hard time learning the skills they need to play well due to lack of familiarity with computers and their use. if this is true, its only for rts, 11 year old viet kids were like the bulk of semi-pro cs back in the day XD | ||
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OpAndroid
United States84 Posts
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Boundless
Canada588 Posts
The most versatile and safe Protoss build is either a 3 gate expand or a 2 gate robo expand, both with lots of sentries. Learn those, practice your macro like hell, and get good practice partners who are willing to work with you. | ||
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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
I decided to change races. Maybe it was just me, but I started improving greatly soon after the switch. I think that maybe I had devolped so many pre conceived notions about my first race and how to play it that I was at an impass. Changing races allowed me to start fresh from a build order/strategy standpoint while utilizing what I had learned about hot keys and basic macro mechanics. After a few months, I began to hit a wall again with the 2nd race. This prompted me to go back to my first race. In a similar fashion, I was able to climb to an even higher level than before. Maybe it was just me, but between all those changes (several months time) I went from being stuck in copper with a ton of games played to 2.8K diamond. Hang in there. Idra said once that your focus should be on mastering the fundamentals, not on winning and success will follow. | ||
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ggrrg
Bulgaria2716 Posts
There are some minor flaws like not constant production of probes, supply blocks, stacking up a little bit too many minerals, but none of those are really a problem. In fact, I'd say that you could compete on diamond level with those mistakes. However! There was one big thing that broke your neck in both games you lost that one could clearly observe. It would have even costed you the game vs terran if he wasn't that terrible. You NEVER knew what you should do! Basically, you did not scout. You just kept churning out units without caring what your opponent was doing. Let's review the games you provided: vs terran There were three things that you could/should have done. 1. Not losing your probe before a marine comes out. Just shift-queue move your probe around his base (Normally, you would leave when you see that he produces his first marine). In that game you would have seen that he built TWO barracks at the very beginning. This means that he would go heavy bio and probably rush you, so you should rush for collosus. 2. (Optional) Since you lost your probe at the start, you could have send a probe to his choke about the time when you started your robo. At this point you would have seen two barracks (one with reactor). This is another indicator that he goes heavy marines, so you should rush for collosus. 3. I'd encourage you to build an observer as soon as your robo finishes (if you feel that he might attack very early, you could produce one immortal first and then the observer). An early observer is essential in PvT. In this game you would have seen mass marines -> you make collosi. In other games you might see a banshee build -> make stalkers and another obs. Or you might see a fast expand -> you expand or you attack him. vs zerg Once again, you had no information about what he was doing. You could have stayed there with your initial scouting probe (again shift-queue move around his base) and you would have seen that he went for roaches -> you chrono your first immortal. Often times zerg would build a pair of lings early and deny your initial scout. So after he finishes his pool move your probe to his natural expo. If there is a hatch, then you might expand soon or prepare some sort of attack. If there is no expo then he will most likely attack soon, so you get prepared. side note: In the game you provided you could have saved yourself if you had a little bit better macro though, but if you had scouted you would have had very little problems with his early attack. vs toss You did not know what he was doing yet again. If you had scouted his expo when he started it you could have attacked, denied the expo and possibly even kill him right there. However, I also noticed that your build was rather bad. For PvP (and only for PvP), I'd encourage you to practice a solid 4-gate build, since even in master league, this would be the strategy you'd need the most. You would have crushed him with a 4-gate. Just build a proxy pylon somewhere close to his base and warp in units there. In case you see that you cannot kill your opponent with the 4-gate rush, you should pull back and start making some collosi as they are very important in mid and late game PvP. | ||
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Omnipresent
United States871 Posts
On February 15 2011 13:49 ggrrg wrote: Ok, I just looked through the replays you provided and must say that I was highly surprised that your macro wasn't even close to being terrible (except maybe in the game against zerg). There are some minor flaws like not constant production of probes, supply blocks, stacking up a little bit too many minerals, but none of those are really a problem. In fact, I'd say that you could compete on diamond level with those mistakes. I just watched a couple of the replays, and I have to disagree with ggrrg. The problem looks like it's related to macro. I know people always say "macro better" to get out of bronze, but it's tough to know what that means. Here are some tips. 1. Make more probes. In the PvT on Steppes, your probe production was pretty good for about the first 2:30 min, but fell off pretty steeply after that. By my rough count, you averaged missing about 1 probe per minute for the first 6 minutes, at one point chrono boosting a nexus with no probes being built. After that, it got worse. You're doing a good job spending your money, but not such a good job making money to begin with. It's pretty easy to spend all your cash from one base with 3 gate robo when you haven't been constantly producing workers and aren't fully saturated (and even when you are fully saturated). 2. Don't get supply blocked. Most of the times you got supply blocked were relatively minor, but there were a few that lasted quite a while. Every time you get supply blocked, you're limiting your army production AND your probe production. This means you're also limiting your potential income, since you're delaying workers. Each supply block has long term consequences, even if you're able to spend all the money in your bank upon getting unblocked. 3. Macro while attaching/being attacked. Whenever you attack or are being attacked, your money went up considerably. You might be able to bring it back down due to having low income or too many production buildings, but you weaken your army in the short term. Whenever you lose a game, look up at your unspent resources before leaving. Convert those resources into units, and imagine how nice it would be to have that army (1k minerals is 10 zealots...). 4. Expand. If you intend to play off one base for 10+ minutes, you should be pretty active with your units (poking, pressuring, harassing, and all out attacking). If you're not looking to do that, you can expand. You have a decisive defenders advantage in almost all situations (vs protoss is a little trickier). This means you should be able to defend against many attacks (and ALL bronze league attacks) while taking your natural. A lot of people have mentioned scouting more. This is obviously an important skill, but likely wont make much difference in your games at the moment. It's nice to have a sense of your opponent's unit composition and react to it (marines are good against immortals, so don't make immortals vs marines), but it's better to have a large army (a large army will beat a small one, regardless of composition). You don't want to be surprised by 6 Battlecruisers, but beyond that you're probably better off just working on macro and saving scouting for later (though it's always easy to be active with observers). | ||
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Simberto
Germany11587 Posts
Since you said you feel like your macro is ok-ish, and it didn't look that terrible on one base in the games you posted, i assume that you win most of the games which go to the mid-lategame? If this is the case, you obviously need to improve your earlygame, get more cheeseproof, and generally be more effective at not dying at the beginning to all sorts of 1-base stuff. A bandaid to do this would be cannoning, however i would really not recommend that, since it might help against bad people who really don`t know what to do if their 1-base push does not work, or who suicice into cannon lines. To be generally more safe, don't rush to anything. Don't do insanely fast expos, and don't do insanely fast tech. Always get at least 2 gateways before any robo/stargate/exppansion, just to be a bit safer. Also, try to tighten your build earlygame. In that game against the zerg your robo and your second gateway were insanely late. Generally, all of you early gateways should finish when, or shortly after your warpgate research finishes. If they don't, something went wrong. In this case, it was a) you getting a gas you don't even mine from pretty early, and b) you simply not starting the facilities when you had the money to do so. Also, ranged units are generally more effective at defending your wall versus early zerg stuff, so that second zealot should probably have been a stalker. Try to watch the replay everytime you lose to something early on, and find out where your build was unprecise at the beginning, what you could have had if it were not, and if you still would have a problem against it. Then, try to eradicate those problems. You said that you die to 6-pools, which should really not happen. When you scout a zerg, and see the 6-pool coming, you should still have enough time to react. There are different ways of reacting to it. I would suggest for the beginning to stay away from everything that involves fancy micro, and just build a complete wallin with a forge + another gate as soon as you scout the 6-pool. This should give you enough time to get up a cannon behind that wall, and you are instantly 100% safe from it. Then, just continue what you normally planned to do, knowing that you are ahead by a lot in economy. If you want to move out, kill one of the buildings, probably the forge. Maybe generally scouting after pylon instead of after your gateway could also be a good idea on close maps like steppes, if you still feel that you cannot get defense up in time otherwise. Also, don't wall in versus terran. It might feel safer to have that wall at the entrance of your base, but it actually hinders your forces a lot more than it hinders the terrans. Every single terran unit is ranged, so they can simply shoot over the building. But those buildings are in the way of your zealots, and also prevent you from having a very good arc on any terran units that try to come up the ramp. Also, as soon as he has some kind of air, he can simply shoot your wall from below, and there is nothing you can do about it, since you would have to funnel through the small entrace you left open, and you simply cannot attack a terran from such a position. Against Protoss, it probably also is not a good idea to wall in in most cases. | ||
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SnowSC2
United States678 Posts
I have a friend thats in the same boat, he watches vods and day9, but when he sits down to play he just.. fucken plays. thats it, and macro being one of the most important things to grasp is a great place to start. I read earlier that your macro was slipping, so just watch a pros replay and see how many probes he has at a certain time and go play and try to match it or something like that. Referencing really good players and copying them is fantastic and can really give you an idea of what your income should look like at any given time. | ||
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Doomhammer
United States2 Posts
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Zerglot
Australia229 Posts
On February 15 2011 09:44 ZeromuS wrote: Its ok I don't have time to look at replay I apologise but there are only 1 thing I want to ask first: How old are you? I know some people who are 10 or 11 and love giving the game a go but their mental abilities can't allow them to get too good at this game. Older individuals, into their late late 50s+ will have a hard time learning the hand eye coordination and speed required to play this game effectively. NOTE: Pre-teen development limits physical and mental coordination needed for starcraft at higher levels even just low diamond. Older individuals who almost never play video games or didn't play many video games before sc2 will have a hard time learning the skills they need to play well due to lack of familiarity with computers and their use. Ok now that that is out of the way if you don't fall into either category then helping you will be much easier. It comes down to practice but the good kind of practice where you don't repeat bad habits over and over. The problem you might be facing is 1000 games of repitition and bad habits. I suggest you play Terran if you main Protoss currently and focus on learning one basic build order like the 3 rax stim and concussive timing and making sure you can get to 50 supply or higher in 7 minutes. If you can make scvs, and follow the build order and get a good timing out of it then you are one step closer to breaking bad habits. Use hotkeys and watch the day 9 newbie tuesday vods. ALL of them they will help you a LOT at the very least conceptually. Focus on playing against a very easy AI in order to practice good habits and as soon as you repeat a bad habit like supply blocking yourself quit the game and start again. I really don't want to be the bearer of bad news but you need to basically re-learn sc2 because after 1000 games unless you seriously tried to stay in bronze to farm portraits you need to destroy bad habits and rebuild good ones. I disagree, I'm only 14 but I'm a 3100 Diamond Zerg | ||
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falcoiii
Canada43 Posts
Here are 2 simple goals for macro: Always build probes. Never get supply blocked. Here is how you can practise to get better: A simple exercise is to try to get to 30 probes by 6:30 - ignore everything else. Run and rerun this exercise against a very easy AI until you can do it. Then add in a goal of 30 probes by 6:30 along with 1 gateway, 1 core, 1 stalker and 1 zealot. Slowly expand your demand list to see how far you can go. As for supply - every time you warp in 3 or 4 units, build a pylon. Everytime you chronoboost a unit producing building, build a pylon. Learn your keys and key combinations: F1 - select Idle probe. b - build menu e - build a pylon So to select an idle worker and build a pylon: F1 - b - e - click Repeat this and other key sequences over and over. Make sure you know this one: w - s - click - s - click - z - click - e - click | ||
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SheerStress
84 Posts
Just watched your PvT Replay. For reference, I am low masters terran, so i watched PvT  Big Stuff: - Your probe production is inconsistent (aka noticeable amount of time with no probes made) even within the first 5 minutes and then through out the rest of the game. If you aren't getting attacked or attacking, not much reason to not have this down. - No scouting - You cant go blind 3 gate robo. know what 3 gate robo is good against, just poking a probe up his ramp woulda shown you a ton. Use obs in his base. - Army comp - If you are not scouting your understanding of army comp is not good. in this case you seemed to go some random build off whatever resources you had - Army control - Your final attack had a nice line walking straight into his ramp, was this a diamond player, i assure you woulda lost your whole army and killed nothing, gather outside his base put zlots in front. ff were soso. Final battle about 6 guardian shields used, pointless. Your first attack was also aweful. dont do that, that wuts scouting probes are for - Strange Hotkeys - I usually dont criticize this, but since you are in this situation you may want to try some new ones. 1,2 - main army. 4 - non warpgate production 5- nexus W- warpgates. Medium stuff - Not taking advantage of warp gates, despite having warp gates did not make a pylon to move them closer, I guess it was steppes of war. - chronos not used properly - first chronos you use two in a row, multiple times theres a chrono and no probes being made on the chronoed nexus your macro was above bronze level for sure, good pylon timings for the most part. scouting and more consistent probe making will make you a much better player. I feel like you should work on making probes, scouting and basic army control (not a-moving to his base without even gathering your army together and moving zlots in front). scouting aside you looked like a low gold player to me. Good luck, dont give up. | ||
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dc302
Australia576 Posts
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ProtossGirl
England123 Posts
"r u a retard or just 7??" disguised under politeness. I have nothing else to add that hasnt already been said in page 1. | ||
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TheRealzz
150 Posts
On February 15 2011 17:00 ProtossGirl wrote: lol the first reply to this thread is fucking horrible. "r u a retard or just 7??" disguised under politeness. I have nothing else to add that hasnt already been said in page 1. Angry person troll ? | ||
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Helicopter
Canada39 Posts
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Sneakyz
Sweden2361 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11587 Posts
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Helicopter
Canada39 Posts
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