EPT[G] iEchoic's 2fact2port TvT - Page 31
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valheru
Australia966 Posts
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jacosajh
2919 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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thoradycus
Malaysia3262 Posts
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Fedor
United States42 Posts
1. make more vikings, if they have more vikings. (throw in a raven if you're feeling snarky) 2. making more banshees, if they have marauders/tanks. 3. make some BCs, if they have thors. Expand, expand, and macro. Fun for all. | ||
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Drinc
Sweden98 Posts
They target fire your BC with vikings and Thors, and then you just have vikings left against a few thors and a few vikings and then you're done with. This is the buildorder i lost against with this build. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
You need to keep making banshees also (in some way, the BC is great to draw fire to him, and the yamato to snipe thors). | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
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Kujawa
United States137 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
To respond to Bleak, the thing is that before you get 3/3 BCs, you'll get them out either because you have a lead which (what? that?) allows you to, or because you scout a thor switch. In this case you don't have a fleet yet, and they don't have that great a dps is your opponent upgrades his units' armor. They are powerful, but before you get a critical mass you'll need something else besides hellions to kill stuff quickly. | ||
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VashTS
United States1675 Posts
On February 18 2011 13:19 iEchoic wrote: SjoW ran the Hellion/Air composition (with a different build order) v KawaiiRice with success in a recent clan war, a link to the replay pack is below (it's game 1 on Xelnaga) - link I clicked on the REPLAYS HERE button, but the replay you are talking about wasn't in the file. Little help, anybody? =( Looks like he saw Ghosts and didn't bother to get a Raven. You can't blame the build for that, only the player. EDIT: Typo. | ||
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Tierfight
Belgium49 Posts
The point is, that it is not answer to try and win this build in air dominancy, it is about keeping static defence with turrets and securing ground with tanks and marine shootin both air and ground. Marines will do fine against even blue flame hellions if they are in proper formation and keep moving which effectively nullifies hellions aoe damage. I know iEchoic has talked about marines and how "spreading" does not help, but he is wrong about that. Proper marine control will absolutely kill all blue flame hellion attempts. So, solid marine tank build, maybe with additional thors will counter this iEchoic build easily. I would not ever call this eEchoic build "solid", it relies heavily on winning enemy outright due to poor response and looses in later stages of the game because iEchoic is behind in production of tanks, marines, and whatnot. Sure he could try to go battlecruisers, but they will get killed by mass marines and additional vikings/seeker missiles which probably are in the game at this point. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
One guy just went pure mech - no way you can beat it. PDD from Raven is not enough to deal with more thank 5 Thors, since Thors shoot 4 missiles (4 PDD shots) so yeah, its not really viable against mech in my opinion - since you also can't cripple his economy. Another build that is insanely good against it is no Gas FE with bunker and 3 supply wall fast tech to tanks. He can prevent Hellion harass with the bunker (slide scvs if you are scared) and Siegetanks - he gets turrets against Banshee and he will get fast ports for Vikings. If he has more vikings than you, you are screwed, if you make vikings you can't really make lots of banshees. So if he wins the airwar because has a superiorvikingcount, your hellions can't beat siegetank / marine. If he sees you have lots of vikings, he'll land his vikings and your banshees (won't have a lot) are probably not enough to beat his force. That are at least 2 builds I saw countering it pretty hard - all other builds are beatable so far. | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On February 21 2011 23:58 mTw|NarutO wrote: One guy just went pure mech - no way you can beat it. PDD from Raven is not enough to deal with more thank 5 Thors, since Thors shoot 4 missiles (4 PDD shots) so yeah, its not really viable against mech in my opinion - since you also can't cripple his economy. If we're talking that late (the point where you have more than 5 thors), have you ran battlecruisers? I have a replay up against Perplexity in the replay pack where he runs pure thor/marine (not pure mech, but all his gas was going into thors) and by BCs mop up the thors pretty well. There were a couple battles with 4+ thors that I won cost efficiently. Also, once I realized he was trying to mass thors and turtle I mass expanded, took a 3rd and 4th, one of them being the gold. I agree you can't run just raven banshee vs mass thor, but BCs have done really well in my experience. Assuming equal resources if one person is running all their gas into thor and one person is running it all into BCs the BCs should come out on top. | ||
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
Used to be fun before. | ||
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HardCorey
United States709 Posts
On February 22 2011 07:56 danielsan wrote: thanks for making this cheese public, now 50% of TvT is like this. Used to be fun before. This build is far from cheese. Just because many people interpret this as rushing for fast blue-flame in a cheesy manner and perform the build in subpar ways does not mean it is cheesy. | ||
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rysecake
United States2632 Posts
On February 22 2011 07:56 danielsan wrote: thanks for making this cheese public, now 50% of TvT is like this. Used to be fun before. It's far more than 50% lol. | ||
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-Mav-
United States50 Posts
On February 22 2011 07:56 danielsan wrote: thanks for making this cheese public, now 50% of TvT is like this. Used to be fun before. 1. Encounter new build 2.The same strat I always use doesn't work. 3.MUST BE CHEESE. But anyway, this build is in no way shape or form cheese. If you want to call it cheese im calling muta/ling/bane cheese because this build works in the same fashion as it. Hellions kill marines, banshees mop up ground forces, and vikings control the air. If they get thors you respond with battlecruisers, as a zerg would respond with broodlords. | ||
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Victim
United States188 Posts
On February 22 2011 08:38 -Mav- wrote: 1. Encounter new build 2.The same strat I always use doesn't work. 3.MUST BE CHEESE. But anyway, this build is in no way shape or form cheese. If you want to call it cheese im calling muta/ling/bane cheese because this build works in the same fashion as it. Hellions kill marines, banshees mop up ground forces, and vikings control the air. If they get thors you respond with battlecruisers, as a zerg would respond with broodlords. If the m/l/b zerg strategy remained on one base until it could nydus banelings into my mineral line (or not), I'd say it was pretty cheesy too, even if the mid game plan zerg used was the same as normal. | ||
Sleight
2471 Posts
If you play safely, this opening is a blessing because its tricks are nothing particularly overwhelming individually. | ||
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